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 [00:00:00] Welcome back to The Better Learning podcast. Today we are still sticking with our movie theme, uh, for this period of time as we talk to Jay, we’re gonna dive into the nineties. Gem can’t hardly wait. Now, Jay, thank you so much for being with us. I greatly appreciate it.

Carla: We’ve been ditched by Kevin and by Matt, but, um, early this morning, I was lucky enough to course Jessica, who’s one of our newest team members into joining me as a co-host. So, Jay, tell me. Where are you from and what firm are you with?

Jay: Yeah, so I’m with LaValley Brand. Singer. We’re architects in New England. We have offices in Boston and Portland and Manchester, New Hampshire. I’m out of Manchester New. Here I am a, I’m an architect. I’m also an educational planner. I went through the AAP course, uh, in 2023. So I’m officially, certified as a, an aap, so that’s really cool.

Um, I really lead a lot of projects here in the office, and K 12 is definitely my passion in hands-on learning such as CTE and other hands-on learning are really. What drives me and really, you know, wakes me up in the morning, what makes me want to go to work? Just making spaces for the next generation of learners that they can be inspired to be the next leaders and, and take over our world.

Carla: Yeah, so tell me why you, or so, why did you pick Can’t Harley wait right? I’m old, but this is one of those that it reminded me of like my high school. So the endings, how messy it is, how the jocks turn out to not be so fabulous. and it just re reinforced ’cause I made my daughter watch it with me, my 14-year-old.

That those people who peak too soon aren’t necessarily the ones that you want to, to be with. But this, this one was a great one. So why did you pick it?

Jay: Yeah. I think, like you said, I think it is great because it’s, it is a mashup of all different groups. There’s all these little cliques, and I think in, in middle school and the beginning of high school, it’s all about finding your tribe, finding the people that you’re like, and your part of these groups.

But this movie’s really about the breakdown of that. It’s the next phase we go through in life when we realize that our cliques aren’t. So important that other people and individuals all come together to really make something great. And that’s what we see. We see the merging of these different cliques together, um, and their interaction, which really becomes a fun movie.

And there’s a lot of great music in it. It’s a lot of great nostalgia in it. Um, so I, I think that’s what really drove me to the movie. It’s that, that breakdown that, we’ll, we’ll talk about.

Carla: Yeah. Well, and Jessica, have you, you’ve seen this before, right?

Jess: I have. So I did, I did re-watch it a little bit just to familiarize myself and I’m so glad I did. ’cause there are so many quotes. I was like, I can’t think of anything. And then I watched it and was like, oh my God. There’s so many great quotes. and so yeah, so I’ve seen it before. Love it, love movies like this that are, the whole entirety of the movie is over one night, like very like hangover vibe.

Like I love that type of like setting and that type of, um, dynamic. And so I thought that was really cool too, that the whole movie is really within, you know, a two hour time period.

Jay: I love that you said that, Jessica, because let’s just do a little quick, quick pop quiz here. I think this style of movie has been done done a bunch of times, right? So in the seventies, someone made a movie about the sixties that everything happened in one night. Do you know what movie that is?

Carla: Breakfast Club?

Jay: Oh, close, close,

Carla: No. What

Jay: American Graffiti, the sixties.

One night Everyone’s out and

Carla: You know what, Jay? I have to admit, I’ve never seen that.

Jay: Carla Homework. Watch that one. And then we, we had the seventies version of this, right, which is days and confused, right?

Jess: what I offered for Matt. I said, that’s a great movie.

Jay: Yeah.

Carla: So that was recorded at my middle school, just so you

Jay: Oh, no way. Okay. Yeah.

Carla: it was recorded at our middle school. My, my sisters were in middle school at that time. They’re older than me, but it was recorded there. Yeah.

Jay: And then we have the eighties version, which of course is Breakfast Club. Everything happens in that little bit of time, right? And then I think this is the nineties movie of everything coming together at one time. And then I think we go, you know, beyond that, we go to Super Bad in two thousands.

We go Project X, book Smart. You know, it’s all these like movies that happen in these different time periods of what’s happening with these students at this time. And I think this is the perfect example of. what was happening in the world at this time,

Carla: Yeah.

Jay: so, yeah.

Carla: Well, you want another fun fact that, and I had to Google this, but cause I was looking for quotes ’cause there were so many, but I was on a plane. I didn’t have a pen to write it down type of thing, but it was filmed in 20 days

Jess: Yeah.

Jay: wow.

Carla: I didn’t know that until I was like going through the IMDB and JU had sent a message last night, and truth be told, I just got back from two weeks of vacation.

So my preparation was watching this on the plane on the way home. But you were like. It has such a great [00:05:00] cast and I’m going, it does have a really amazing cast, but who the hell are they? Right? And I couldn’t remember all of their names and then you recognize all of them. But, so I went to the IMDB and that was the, I was like, filmed in 20 days is kind of crazy. Oh,

Jay: That is crazy to talk about the cast just for a second. The cast is amazing, right? So and, and I break into, there’s actually like three groups of cast, right? There’s the named people, there’s six people that have names. And they’re actually, their names are spelled out at the beginning and the end. And, you know, you’ve got your, your Ethan Embry, who, who’s playing Preston Meyers, and he was just like the hot guy at that time, coming off Empire Records and Vegas vacation and all that stuff.

And then we didn’t really see him after that. And then we had, uh, Lauren Ambrose, Jennifer Love Hewitt. Right. And then you have, um, Peter Elli, Charlie, uh. Cosmo, who became, who was William Lichter, who did a ton of stuff before this film and then kind of dropped off the face after this.

I mean, he was in What about Bob? He was in Dick Tracy. He was in Hook. He was in all this stuff. There’s a child actor and then obviously Seth Green that we know. And I think it’s interesting ’cause they get top billing. And then you have the next group of characters that don’t even have like the watermelon guy, jock number two, you know, all these people.

And like you said, they’re all faces that we know today. Like this was Jason Siegel’s first movie, this was Jamie Presley’s first movie. All these people, it was like their first, their first film and they don’t even get their name. And then you have the third group, which I think is even crazier, is. They aren’t even recognized in the, in the credits.

There’s like Jerry O’Connell and, Brecken Meyer, and, you know, all these people that they don’t even, they don’t even, they don’t even put ’em in the credits, which is so funny, so amazing cast, like you just said. It’s a huge cast.

Carla: Yeah, and it was the same kind of, I told you we did super bad a couple months ago, and that was there were. Very similar to that third stage of actors where you’re going, I recognize that guy and he turned out to be like a really big actor

Jay: Yeah. 

Carla: we go through these categories, Jay. And so the first one that we look at is as like the John Keating Award.

And, and generally speaking, like when we, when we wrote this format, it was looking at like at the best mentor teacher. This one doesn’t have teachers, Not any that I could think of. Right. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that someone else can’t be. So who would, who would you nominate for the John Keating board from this cast?

Jay: so that, that’s a very good question. So I’ve got a couple answers. the answer I’m gonna go to first, and I, I definitely wanna hear you guys’ answers too. The first answer I’m gonna go to, I think Jenna Elman and Jerry O’Connell are kind of these older roles, older souls that come in just for a short period of time.

And in part some knowledge. I’m sorry, what?

Jess: Is that the angel? Right. Okay. Totally

Jay: dancer. She’s not the, not, she’s a dancer, right? So Jenna Elman comes in and she, she talks to Preston and kind of like sets him straight, right? That’s like his whole arc changes there. And, and you’ve got, Jerry O’Connor’s trick McNeely who comes in and sits next to Mike Dexter on the bench and kind of, you know, like straightens him out.

Like, Hey, the world’s not as great as you think it’s gonna be. You know, you gotta like. Live in the moment. And I think those two characters probably are like the, the ones that set people back on co course. the other one I’ll just quickly throw out an honorable mention I think is Denise, Denise Fleming, the way she kinda steps up and talks to, not just Kenny Fisher, kind of puts Kenny Fisher back in his place, but also to Preston.

She’s kind of guides Preston too. So what, what do you guys think? What, what do you think?

Carla: Yeah, so I had two things. Just Denise I thought was a person who’s always near and dear to my heart because I resonate a little bit with her. She’s no nonsense, and she’s just like, let me just tell you, you suck. Like you suck. You did this and, and this is what happened. So I liked her, but I think sometimes we don’t realize that it doesn’t necessarily have to be a person, but I think that the.

Biggest factor and the biggest thing that helped everyone through Learn Lessons was the party in and of itself, right?

Jay: Mm-hmm.

Carla: and maybe that could go to like the, the other portion of it, which was the homecoming scene. But the overall party in that, it taught so many different lessons, even from the girl who was hosting the party to the, the jock guys who were supposed to break up with their girlfriends, but they weren’t gonna go along with, with everything.

And so, I. I picked Denise as a person

Jay: Yeah. I think one interesting thing with Denise, her opening line, if you remember it, when it first starts, she’s like. Preston, don’t look back, never look back. And then the guy runs and hits something. She’s like, Les, you that guy. But so her whole thing is like never look back. And then later in the film, she’s in the bathroom with Kenny and she’s like, you [00:10:00] remember we used to play Miami Vice in the basement when you used to sleep over?

We used to have the leave the light on. Kenny Fisher used to buy Valentine’s de card for me and used to buy the little hearts for me. So she’s like reminiscing. But. It’s like totally, she’s like changing in her own her own mind, which I thought was really, really cool.

Jess: Yeah,

Carla: Jessica, who would your

Jess: I, it was Denise for me too. I definitely, and I’m, I, I forgot her name already, but the, the angel dancer was one that, like, when I watched it today, I was like, oh my God. Pivotal moment. Here it is. definitely. I love Denise and I love Jay what you were saying too, ’cause I thought Denise was like a mentor to everyone, but then herself when she was one-on-one, right?

She kind of became like more like human right and more, this is my age and I’m actually attracted to you. Or I, you know, I have a crush on you, whatever it might be. But I thought her character was so complex throughout this movie and she would be one where I was like, oh, she was way ahead of her time giving advice.

Jay: A hundred

Carla: Oh yeah, for sure. Well, and the fact that, you know, she obviously didn’t cater to any of the cliques or cater to the different people. She just was unapologetically Denise. And there’s even the scene where she’s sitting on the couch and a nerdy girl comes and sits by her and she’s like, I don’t remember what it was.

But basically, like I told you, she went to the school, she had asked a question and I’m like, what class they were in, like science lab or

Jay: Yeah.

Carla: And so to the point that people in the school didn’t necessarily recognize her because she’s just sort of this person who’s like, I don’t really give a crap.

Which,

Jay: and she’s also kind of the,

Carla: her.

Jay: the wallflower that kind of people may have walked right by that didn’t, didn’t necessarily see her. Yeah.

Carla: So this one, this movie had clicks on top of clicks, and when we look at the click component of the, of the podcast, you know, we’re looking at like what iconic stereotypes were reinforced in the movie. And it’s pretty much like every iconic stereotype ex, I mean, even there was even cowboys, right? Like the band guy had the cowboy

Jay: Yeah.

Carla: and whatever else.

But like, are they realistic and or are they. And do you think that they could exist in a real school setting?

Jay: I, I’ll jump in first. Jessica. You can go next, but yeah, I, I think. They’re all over the top, but I think they all do exist. Right. And I think we talked a little bit about, it’s not so much the cliques, but it’s the breakdown of the merging of the two cliques. You got the jocks and the nerds that become friends playing piano together and talking.

You’ve got the, you know, the popular, very popular girl and then the. Poetic guy and eventually they get together and you got the wallflower. And then a new type of genre that I don’t think we’ve seen in any of the film before this, which is like, that want to be gangsta, which is, I mean, it’s the first time I think we’ve seen that stereotype in a film and, and there it is.

And, growing up there were those kids in my school too, you know, they’re there. So I

Carla: where did you grow up?

Jay: I grew up in New Hampshire, Southern New Hampshire, so just outside Boston. So, I mean, it’s just funny. Very funny.

Jess: No, I thought so too. Absolutely. And what I loved about the cliques, I mean, I completely agree with Jay. Like this is very, you know, to some degree I feel like still a parent. I do feel like there’s a more mix, right in the new day and age school. Um, but it’s still there. What I loved about it, and I’m sure we’ll dive into it, is that.

Each clique kind of went through this vulnerability within themselves. Like I think of that band and like, I don’t even think they actually played a song, right? Like they actually don’t go to tuition because they fight and then they like make up and break up and break the band up and then have the t-shirts.

And it was just like. Every clique, and even Mike, like misery loves company, right? Like he’s trying to get his friends to break up with their girlfriends because like, there was such vulnerability in every clique that I, I love to see that. Um, but definitely can see where, you know, it’s still pretty predominant to, to what you see in high school now.

Carla: Yeah, no, for sure. And I think the other one that we don’t talk about is William, right? That was the name of the singer guy. Is that William?

Jay: this the singer? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. It becomes the singer. Yes. The Guns N Roses. Yeah.

Carla: Williams a nerd, but he ended up like getting up on stage

Jess: Oh, oh.

Carla: over.

Jay: Yep.

Carla: Yeah.

Jay: Yeah,

Carla: And he had like, had his little cronies up on the top and he was that nerd in that clique who was idolized. ’cause you could, you, I mean, you heard him like, oh, William, blah, blah, blah. And he’s like, I’ve got this chart. I’m not gonna drink too much.

I, I know exactly how many drinks. And then, you know, he drinks a beer and he’s like, it’s rotten. But even he, in that.

Jay: That beer is bad. Nobody drink the beer.

Jess: So good.

Carla: No, it just hates that way. Like you have to, you have to, but even in that click, right, like there was the sort of the superiority and the arc and, and everything else, and you kind of saw the, the breakdown, especially in the end when they jumped out and they they roast him in the pictures.

Jay: Be beyond the clicks and stereotypes. The other thing I loved absolutely loved about this. Film, you know, most films you have maybe a dozen songs or something. There were like over 50, over 60, 55, 60 songs. In this, it [00:15:00] was song after song after song and every time a new character was introduced, a new type of music was, was brought in.

So like you have, when you feed first, meet Mike Dexter and his friends, you hear this creeds ode, like this almost this very dark. You know,

Carla: Yeah.

Jay: sinister song. And then when he walks in the party, Mike Dexter walks in and it turns to more human than human by, Rob Zombie, which is like, eh, you know, kinda like a crazy thing.

And then you have, you’ve got, when Jenny Love Hett walks in, it’s. like six underground by sneaker pimps, every different song. And then obviously Kenny Fisher, you’ve got all this like rap music, you got Buster Rhymes. And so I loved how the music followed the characters as they, they moved through the movie, which I thought was kind of interesting too.

Carla: I just had to pull up pictures of the cast because I just am not, um, bright enough to follow along with. I

Jay: I, I’m sorry. So Kenny Fisher, obviously, uh, uh, Seth Green as, as the wannabe gangster, you know?

Jess: That’s amazing. I didn’t actually think about what song as they’re entering. I thought this soundtrack though, which I know we’ll get into, was so unique because it was so alternative rather than like Poppy, you know, kind of like hits on the radio. Like, you know, 10 things I can get about you.

I know that soundtrack, I was actually looking back like, oh I know Eve six, but like I didn’t actually like Smash Mouth Eve six, like you said, Ron Zombie, space Monkeys. Blink 180 2, like. Those are alternative type of songs too. There weren’t, and like, ’cause it didn’t do that well when it first came out and that the songs was actually in like that soundtrack was one thing that I was thinking about of like, I wonder if that affected it.

’cause there were some songs I recognized, but even myself, I know that there are some where I was like, I’ve never heard this before.

Jay: Well, well Jessica, you bring up something kind of interesting ’cause you said it didn’t do well when it came out, and I know Kevin typically asked him, what do you think the IB IMDV rating of this thing is? So what do you, did You guys already research this, so you know where it sits in the IMDB ranking of films? You guys are

Carla: I

Jess: I, I looked at, I, I, I haven’t looked at this website until today, so I looked at it, but I did see that it was like half, like a 6.5. Now, what is a normal rate though? Like a normal, like a, you know, like a superba or something? Would that be higher? Because I thought that was low. I also, like, I don’t know any of my friends who would name this as like, you know, a top 10 or something type of movie where like Dazed and Confused, like I said, 10 things I Hate About you are just like so predominant.

Jay: Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And I was wondering if that had changed over time, that six five, if it got higher or lower over time, how it plays into it. One of the interesting things you could do with IMDB though. If you look at what US rated it, US rated it 6.7, so us rated it higher than most of the other places.

But I thought it was really funny that Sweden had ranked it 5.9, which I thought was kind of funny because the foreign exchange student in the movie that they is from Sweden and they totally make funny him the whole movie. And I wonder if that plays into the fact that the Swedish people didn’t like this movie because they made fun of him.

Carla: Well, and then you have the difference between Rotten tomatoes too, right? Like, so outside of IMDB, what is the Rotten Tomatoes? which, that’s 42%, so it’s really pretty low, but I don’t think that it was, when we say it’s iconic, I think it’s ’cause I’m old. Sorry, Jay. You’re old too. Jeff, you’re not.

Jay: I am too.

Carla: We’ll just own it. Like this is the year my daughter was born, she’s now 27. So we’re just gonna do the math there and realize like it just is what it’s, but we kind of talk class clown, which I think we could. I am gonna bet we all have the same

Jay: Ooh, I’ve got kind of two. Go ahead, Carla. You go first.

Carla: two.

Jess: Hmm.

Carla: I have Kenny just ’cause he’s so stupid.

That’s not a nice word, but. He’s such a ding-dong. And you see him every single time he comes in with his goggles. Like, what is that? What, what is happening? Although, you know, Denise made fun of his shoes and I would like to roast her for that because I think he had on some Nike Air Maxes or something when he lifted ’em up.

Jay: I

Carla: Um, they were

Jay: made fun of her too. Uh,

Carla: Yeah, they were not crazy. I thought they were great. But that’s on Denise. But I think Kenny Fisher, 

Jay: Definitely. I, I would agree. Jessica, do you have anyone else you’d add to

Jess: I, so I thought about him. It’s funny because actually now that you’re bringing up the foreign student, I’m thinking of him because. He would roast people throughout the movie without knowing it. Right? Like his, like one-liners were always like, let me just cheer on everyone else. And it was kind of making fun of someone.

I think Kenny, because when I think class clown, I think like that persistent, I’m gonna continue to make these jokes whether they fall, whether they’re not. And that was Kenny through the whole movie, like he did not care. My favorite line, I know we’ll get into quotes, is like 10 lucky ladies, which of my 10 lucky ladies is going home with me?

And like the girl walks [00:20:00] by him and ignores him. He’s like, all right, nine lucky ladies. I’m just like, that is the epitome of just like persistence and just like, yeah, okay. You don’t like me. That’s fine. We’re just gonna knock it down to

Carla: He didn’t even try though. He just said something her and she just walked by.

Jess: It’s like, whatever.

Jay: Yeah.

Jess: Definitely him. Who else you got? Jay? You had a second one?

Jay: I, so I, my, my runner up was William Lecter, the, the nerd. I thought he was, his dry sense of humor was just so funny. And the way he delivered everything, the beer is bad. Nobody drank the beer, you know, it’s just all the scenes he were in, which is so funny. They, and obviously he, his change through the movie of, I can’t Feel My Legs.

I can’t Feel My legs. And then he’s up dancing and he’s like, everyone’s like, first get down nerd. And then they’re all cheering him on. And then the, the girls wanna go to the make out closet with him and he’s like, he becomes in that short song becomes, you know, changes. And I just thought that was really funny that he becomes the circle everyone wants to be with.

Carla: think the best scene with him though was the jock and him at the piano when they’re drunk and the jock’s crying and he’s like, Hey, so that time I tripped you in front of the whole

Jess: Oh my God.

Carla: He’s like, I don’t, I don’t know when that was, but I’m sorry. And he seemed like very remorseful, right? He goes, that was just today at graduation.

Jay: this morning. Graduation. Yeah.

Carla: I was like, but, but it didn’t click that he had his cronies up on top of the garage waiting to roast him as payback for that. Like, it, there was just no, anyway, so I can, I can get on board with William.

Jay: Yeah.

Carla: Well, when you look at like homecoming scene, right, like the iconic moment, I do think it’s, it’s pretty much the whole movie.

You have tons and tons of these throughout it. what do you think yours is, Jay?

Jay: A hundred percent agree. It’s the whole movie. I mean, the whole movie is, is it? I think you’ve got a couple parts in the movie where again, that William Lecter of the Gunton Roses Sun comes on. He’s like, the guy used to tutor used to make me listen to this and he knew all the words and he sung along and it kind of changed the whole attitude of the party.

the whole Amanda and Preston, when they finally meet up, that’s like kind of a, you know, one of the romantic things. Or when Mike Dexter becomes the social downfall of the middle of the party, it’s like, oh, that’s a big change. And then obviously Denise and Kenny, when they re reconnect in the, in the bathroom upstairs, it really shows their vulnerability of, of being real people.

Jess: I completely, completely agree. I loved, and we haven’t talked about Amanda, I wrote down Amanda is one of the most complex characters I think of this movie and we literally haven’t talked about it because she is such sideline her telling Mike off, I think I rewound it. I was like, this was such a great moment.

And like even her talking to like that second cousin, that weird thing that happened of like. You know, I don’t know why I dated him. She was just saying things that like, as a high school student, I wasn’t thinking about and she was so complex that I loved that moment where like, the party stops, Mike becomes the villain.

She’s like, I’m over this. You know, the cops come right after, kind of break it up. So I, I really love that moment as like a pivotal moment in the, in the movie for sure. And it really

Carla: She made out with her cousin

Jess: Yeah, right. I was like that weird cousin thing happening only by marriage.

Jay: Yeah.

Carla: a weird cousin thing. Yeah, no, for sure. I think I go back to William seeing in Paradise City. There’s the chaos of it. But at the same time, like there, you know, he just shows his personality and his capabilities of being who he is. ’cause you know, at the end of the movie what they talk about.

But that comes later in these. and then I think too, the Preston Amanda’s late night, the letter moment where. Like she sees that letter and she reads it and then she goes and she tells off the jock. Right. And I think that that is the most, to me, that’s the most pivotal one outside of the stripper, angel.

Jay: Dancer. She was a dancer.

Carla: She did just go to a bachelor party where she was vomited on, but, we’ll, we.

Jay: She corrects me. I’m a dancer. I’m a dancer. 

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 [00:25:00] Oh.

Carla: This one had so many, although I do wonder because of the lack of popularity of the movie, were they actually truly one-liners that can, like, supersede the history of the movie? Or are they just like great one-liners within it? I always think of, and, and I kind of have said it to my kids when we talk about the, the whole, you know, when people peak too soon, it’s not always, it’s not always the best thing.

Um, when Denise tells, uh. Oh my gosh, what’s his name?

Jay: Kenny

Carla: The main character. You can’t just be the guy who’s in love. Yeah. You can’t just be the guy who’s in love with Amanda Beckett. Right. Like there’s, there’s more to you than that. And the recognition that like we, there’s, there’s more to a you than a relationship.

And Amanda realizes it in the, in one of the scenes too. But I really liked that one. that’s the only one that I could think of because I didn’t take notes on the plane.

Jay: I’ve got a couple. I mean, the, I thought some were really funny. That always stand out and I do use them. Uh, especially like, nobody drink the beer. The beer has gone bad.

Carla: yeah.

Jay: That’s, that’s a funny one. Or Kenny, he’s like, girl, why you gonna waste my flavor?

Jess: Good, like comedic timing too, right?

Jay: Yeah. Uh, um, there, there’s a great line, and I love how the director did this. They took the line from three different people, say different parts of it. So it’s like Mike Dexter is a God. Mike Dexter is a role model. Mike Dexter’s an a-hole. You know, it’s like the, the, it’s different perspectives of the same person.

And it, it was really cool how they delivered that, that series of lines back to back with the cut in between. and then there’s obviously, dude, I can’t feel my legs. I have no legs before he starts, you know, dancing there, which I thought was funny,

Carla: Yeah.

Jay: but I think probably the most like. Profound one is when the dancer, the angel dancer says, um, there’s fate.

It can only take you so far. ’cause once you’re there, you have to make it happen. I think that’s, that has a lot to say. You know, it’s up to you to actually take the next step and to, to go out and do stuff.

Carla: He, she did also think he was in love with, um, who was it?

Jay: Barry Manalow, the Manalow.

Carla: If you love Barry Manalow, tell him and he is like, it’s not like that, but

Jay: Yeah.

Carla: how about you, Jessica?

Jess: I had, um, I, I had this, I didn’t know the whole line, but what the angel had said to him, I knew it was something about fate. And fate comes in again at the end too, right? Where it’s like fate just works in mysterious ways, you know, and they go back and forth, but do you believe in fate and do you not?

And I, I liked that concept of it.

Carla: Denise says it.

Jess: Right. But like, yeah, Denise says it. but I just, I love Kenny’s care. I love Seth Green. I think that I’m just impartial to him as well. Like he is such a great actor. I even like, I, I won’t watch Family Guy, but I will for like, I think Chris is funny. Like that’s who, it’s just his timing, his comedic performance.

And so when I loved. I love love, I love love stories, like little things entwined, so of course Kenny and Denise for me, I had to spend time on that and I love them in the bathroom. And he’s like, they’re jabbing at each other and he is talking about, you know, his Nikes and these stupid goggles and he looks at her shoes and is like, is there an orthopedic purpose for.

Jay: Yeah. Do

Jess: And she like immediately takes them off, which I love because, you know, they, they mean something to each other. They’re, they’re crushing on each other. They want to look the other a certain way, which I thought was funny, but like, the way he delivers it, it just looks at, it is like, well, is there an orthopedic purpose for that?

Is just

Carla: And then he tells her her feet

Jess: yeah, like right afterwards. It’s very high school. But, uh, that, I mean, the way that he delivers, I think all of his lines were just, he was a great character in, in, in this for sure.

Jay: I agree with you. Those were great lines. I liked also, uh, just a weird get weird timing. One trip McNeely when he said he’s given the advice, he’s like, that’s the best advice I can give you. Oh. And bring rubber flip flops for the shower. I got warts all over my feet when he is talking about, when I got, it’s like, ah, it’s just such funny one liner.

I just.

Carla: They are. Well, so overall, right? So the idea that, every high school stereotype converges into like one giant mansion party. The whole concept of the movie, obviously, Jay, you pointed out that in every um, decade, there seems to be one of these that stands out, but is it realistic? I’m inclined to say I’ll follow up after y’all.

Jay: Go ahead Jessica. You can go first.

Jess: Um, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to have certain things that happen in that movie, right? To have a big party where multiple different people are involved. Don’t think that’s unrealistic at all. Um, like I said, even when I walk into a space, I look for people more comfortable with. So whether you call it a click or not.

I think that is ideal when you go, you know, it is true when you go [00:30:00] into a party or into a situation where you know there’s drinking, you know, there’s maybe drug use or something like you’re gonna go to people that are comfortable for you. So that Absolutely. And like just the little, you know, there is still those people in high school who just are undevoted, like wear their heart and their sleeves and he wrote this beautiful letter and like what’s so funny with Preston throughout the whole movie is.

That’s all he’s focused on. Like other people are trying to talk to him about how he’s leaving tomorrow and like, congratulations. And all he wants is to just make sure that Amanda has this letter and that he’s able to speak with her. And I again, love, love. So I think that’s very, very realistic. Um, I think, you know, overall like the, some of the language, some of the situations that are in, I, I, I think that we’ve evolved a little bit since then.

But other than that I do think you know that this is a very typical. You graduating? This was after graduation, right? This was the day after graduation. You’re not gonna see these people anymore. Like those type of moments, whether they’re at a house party or, you know, after physical graduation or, you know, at the street, at a, you know, bowling alley, whatever it might be for your situation.

Like, those really do happen. which I love that. And I, I, I like that it was very realistic and just like a fun, good-hearted movie. Like, you know, I’m not leaving being like, oh, I’m traumatized now, or like, I have to decompress after watching it. Like it was a fun movie.

Jay: I agree with you a hundred percent. I mean, it’s, they’re over, over the top stereotypes of all these people, right? And, but it’s, it could happen and I, and I think it still does happen in different cliques getting together and, and having a good time. So I think it’s somewhat realistic.

Carla: So this was, I have so many high school parties that are like this, that I can talk to y’all about. So I do think it’s realistic. and even the high school party where, you know, this really posh family goes and. This girl behind her parents’ back throws a party and they destroy her house, right? Like, I mean, I attended one of those parties where you had holes, there were holes in the walls, and it’s just like, what is happening here?

But I think the overall component of it were more so to me, like the, emotional themes that are. Identify throughout it, which is, you know, identity. So we don’t identify, you know, you had a man to talk about, like, my whole identity is this relationship because it’s what I walked into and like there is more to me than just like, I am so-and-so’s girlfriend, the sense of self-worth and belonging.

I think that all of those concepts are definitely spot on. I don’t necessarily know, like now, if a house party like this would be realistic, social media puts a stop to it. Like I have a high schooler. I just couldn’t even imagine it. Ha. I’m sure it does, but I just couldn’t even imagine it happening now, but

Jay: Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. When you put that, which kind of takes you to, to the next part, the iPhone effect of how this would play into today, right? How would, how would this movie really change

Jess: Oh my god. Will William would be like a viral internet sensation up there. Oh, absolutely. Right. To have that whole, that whole thing. Oh my God. He would go viral in a second for sure. Um, I think to call. Point for like, there would definitely be a lot of groundings after this.

Jay: yeah.

Carla: Oh,

Jess: right. Like this, you know, social media and everything.

I mean, that’s out there, but like, yeah, it’s kind of like, you know, that karaoke aspect type thing. I’m like, oh, that could, yeah, that could, uh, the, the iPhone and social media could only enhance that.

Jay: Uh, I think the whole being able to find a payphone to talk to Barry, met alone wouldn’t have happened. He would’ve had a phone, so he would’ve missed the whole, uh, dancer, the angel dancer. He would’ve missed that whole conversation. And

Jess: Would there even be a letter, right? Would there be a

Jay: Right.

Jess: or something like physical? You’re kind of chasing around the party, right?

Jay: I, I think he’s the hopeless romantic though, so

Jess: He might always be pen and paper. There’s a poem in there somewhere.

Jay: yeah.

Carla: I’m a pen and paper gal, Jessica, still, still to this day, but I do wonder, right, not to go back to it. What the hell did the letter say? It never said what it said or did it.

Jess: I think he describes it to Denise at one point of like it. ’cause I, I remember the, I remember hear like it, it’s about her and just like, this is how I perceive you. Do you perceive yourself this way? Type of thing. Um, but you’re right. Like we never read it though. We never get the full, what did he actually say in it?

Carla: No

Jay: there’s a part in the film that he pours his heart out. Right? He’s talking about the letter. Well, yeah. Right. So he pours his heart out. He breaks the, the fourth wall. He’s looking at the camera. He does the whole thing. And then, yeah, and then stage.

Carla: We won’t say what he said, but I was like, nice one Nice way to break that one up,

Jay: was the best way to break that whole tense seat. Yes. Yeah.

Carla: Yeah. So we won’t, I won’t go through the substitution of class ’cause there’s some of those that it’s just kinda like you. I just, not that it’s not important you guys, but I just don’t even think so. And then Jay, we’ve talked so much about the music. Are you a music guy?

Jay: I, I am a music guy. Yeah. I, I was, at this time I was a station manager [00:35:00] and a music director at a college radio station. So yes, so the music definitely stands up to me. I mean, yeah, so I think the music’s huge. Everything from, I think, I think Jessica, you said Eve six. You know, the beginning part of the, the, the opening, um, riff that just kicks off the movie and then it becomes like this building thing that happens right at the beginning of the movie as you introduce all the characters.

It just building and it just, it’s awesome. And I love how each of the characters has a song that comes in, one of my favorite Easter eggs, and I don’t think I’ve heard anyone ever talk about this, is so, there’s so many songs in the film when they show up to the party, and that’s Preston and Denise.

They’re in the car and the Barry Manalow song comes on right before that. They show up and they, that you can hear the party music in the background. Does, did anyone, do you remember that scene before the the, they talk about the man, the Barry

Carla: background music. Let’s talk about it.

Jay: So it’s, it’s really interesting. You hear the party going, you hear the music going and it’s actually, it’s Jennifer Love Hewitt’s own song that she sung in.

I Know What You Did Last summer. She had like an album and a soundtrack, which I think is absolutely a riot that the director put that song in as the party song whenever it arrives because it’s such a tie to, uh, such an Easter egg that this is her own song that she’s gonna show up to the party later.

Jess: I saw that she had a song, like I was looking at the list and was like, oh my God, she sang a song, but I didn’t know where it was.

Jay: Yes. It is so funny.

Carla: do I think she did a whole album, didn’t

Jay: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, that was the hit on it. Yeah. Yeah.

Carla: Oh, I totally forgot about that, Jay. She was so adorable though, and she was in so many of those movies. Um, the other one with the guy who, Oh God. He played in Scooby-Doo, what is his name? Te Um,

Jay: Freddie Prince, Jr.

Carla: Freddy. I almost said Teddy, but it was Freddie.

Yep. Freddie, French. Like Teddy, Teddy somebody but Freddie. Yeah. So I, she played in so many of those, those movies that are, are great. Well.

Jess: You know what? I also think about the music with the alternative. It’s making me think that that group, right, Preston Denise is also like that alternative little portion of it. And so it’s interesting to think of how they picked music. ’cause I was looking for like a hit something like. You know, something that was, that was a little bit bigger there, um, which was interesting.

And also a cinematic tactic I loved and we haven’t talked about it, is the beginning, the senior superlatives to introduce each character. And then the ending, the little, I love a good wrap up ending. A good ending where it’s like they’re together or like, you know, Mike went off and I think it was like he lost his scholarship.

Like that is such a cinematic move that makes my heart happy.

Jay: Yeah. Where, where are they now? We all, we know where they are ’cause they’ve already told us.

Carla: I know, that’s why I was saying like, we’re gonna come to that after, and that goes to the whole thing of like the, you know, jocks peak, right? Sometimes people peak in high school and that’s, that’s just where it’s at. And then you had, um, they to, you know, William goes on to develop a website. He sells it for millions or billions of dollars.

I don’t remember what it is. Um. Denise and, and, uh, Freddy broke up, but then they found a bathroom and got back together shortly thereafter.

Jay: Kenny Kenny Fish. Yeah.

Carla: But some of it was so funny, right? So you kind of, you know where they are.

Jay: Yeah. No, I, I like that they already, they said that one interesting thing you talked about how they showed the yearbook photo and they kind of said, you know, the things that they had next to ’em. One of the little things that I think the director missed here is. They show the six main characters. They show each of their things, which is interesting later when.

Melissa, Joan Hart, again, her first big screen debut of the girl that signed my yearbook. She’s like, Denise, how come you didn’t get your photo taken? Well, I saved a special spot in the back for you to, to sign or something like that. Right? So why did they show her picture and her whole thing at the beginning if she’s not actually in the yearbook?

So I just thought it was a little glitch. They, they messed up there.

Jess: Yeah.

Carla: Yeah, they did.

Jay: yeah, anyways, the, uh, the songs were great though, I think, you know, graduate from Third Eye Blind was in this, the, obviously the Barry Manalow song. Um,

Carla: You have smash mouth too.

Jay: Uh, smash melt with drought. Yeah. Tons of times in it. Can’t hardly wait By the Replacements.

Paradise City by, you know, guns N Roses, which was a great one. love Burger. They never actually played a song, but it was just great that they were up there doing that. The one song that I thought was really cool, and maybe you caught this too, it’s Father Down, Matthew Sweet. It’s such a simple song, and they play it like four times in the movie.

Every time the letter comes up. So the part where he’s talking to the foreign exchange student, it’s played instrumentally. The part where Amanda’s sitting on the couch reading the letter, it’s played at that time. And then finally when they get together at the end, the same song [00:40:00] plays again. And it’s that same song.

So I thought it was great how he, the director, took that song and broke it up and, and put it throughout the whole movie. So I thought that was pretty interesting about the

Jess: That’s really cool.

Jay: Mm-hmm.

Carla: happens throughout our lives over and over again. And, and I think this movie has that iconic question of like, where are you at when this chapter is over and what’s next? And then two, you know, is, is that we’re not. Identified by necessarily our experiences or what we do or our past. It’s, it’s identified by who we are as individuals, um, and not outwardly what, what people see and perceive.

So I think that was like. Wrapping up the movie, what I always think is a great takeaway of, of what is next. So that leaves me to say, Jay, like, what is next? Like what sort of, um, as we leave the movie behind us and we talk about like what, what does, what’s exciting? What are, is there a special project that you’re working on?

Is there something that you have, um.

Jay: How does this tie into the rest of my world? Right?

Carla: Well.

Jay: Yeah. Yeah, it does. It totally does. So, so one of the things I said at the beginning, one of my passions is really creating spaces where students can be engaged. And I think, um, what I absolutely love is creating hands on space. This, and I love CTE, which is career tech and hands-on.

and one of the things I also absolutely love is I’ve been doing a lot of CTE centers recently, career technical education centers, and. You, you have these cliques. You have the students who are, are more auto focused and they become a clique and they have a similar mindset and they do things together.

You have the culinary students who are, are working together and they, they have a similar mindset, but I love. Creating spaces or spaces within spaces or spaces, outside spaces that allow their, their different cliques to be able to interact together. And I think it becomes so much more powerful when the marketing team can work with the auto team to create a website to help promote their auto oil change thing.

Or the culinary can come in and offer a lunch that when someone’s getting your oil change, you know, it is these. These connections are these collaborations that happen between them, which I think gives students more a well-rounded real life experience of how we can collaborate with not just the students in my, in my space, but the, the greater, the greater space.

So that is really what I’m doing right now, that I’m really loving and I’m, I’m hoping we see more and more of that and more and more people embrace that because these spaces that we’re creating, Are flexible and they, they can be moved and they can be changed depending on what they need.

So it’s not such a specialized space. So I’m seeing a lot of that right now and I’m loving that.

Carla: Yeah. Now, what do you do outside of work? Like what’s your, what’s your ho, what’s your favorite hobby?

Jay: My favorite hobby. Um, I love building things, so I’m, I’m, that’s one of the things I always feel like my, my kids where we built a tree house, we built a swing set. Um, always construction is kind of one of the things that we’re always doing. But, um, I love music and, there’s just a, a, a lot of stuff like that.

But yeah, my kids are keeping me pretty busy at the moment of this. Right now.

Carla: Now, what are their ages? Are they younger or what?

Jay: Yeah. So I have, um, an 11-year-old and a 14-year-old, so they’re, you know, right in that middle school, high school age right now, so, yeah. Yeah.

Carla: To experience some can’t hardly wait in your life pretty.

Jay: I don I don’t think my kids will be in that, that boat, but we’ll see. Yeah. I don’t know. Yeah.

Carla: Yeah, for sure. Well, I appreciate it and like as, as we’re wrapping up, like looking back at our can’t hardly wait, I think this was a great movie for me. It reminded me of when I was younger obviously. So thanks Jay for putting this one on the table. and of course Jessica for being on my last minute co-host, I appreciate you.

Um, if you enjoyed today’s episode of the Better Learning Podcast, we ask you to go to better learning podcast.com and, uh, subscribe to it. So thank you so much for hanging out with us. We, we hope that you guys have a great rest of your week.

Jay: Thank you, Carla.

Jess: Thank you.

Jay: you, Jessica.