Read Transcript:

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Matt Rogers: Welcome back to the Better Learning Podcast.

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My name is Matt Rogers, and in this special episode, we’re taking you on the road with us to hear directly from members of the A4LE Association for Learning Environments community.

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Over the past several months, we had the opportunity to attend several A4LE regional conferences across the country, connecting with
architects, educators, planners, designers, and industry partners who are all passionate about creating better learning environments.

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At each conference, we asked attendees a few questions: What does it mean to be radically student-centered?

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What are the biggest opportunities and challenges facing educational facility planning and design today?

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What conversations should more people in our industry be having?

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And of course, we threw in a few fun local questions along the way.

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This episode features conversations and insights from A4LE Southeast Regional Conference.

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Without further ado, let’s dive in

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Katie Jubenville: What does radically student-centered mean to you?

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Paulette Myers: So I th- I think to me that means spaces that are completely student-driven.

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So, you know, as all of our education changes, we’re trying to create environments that students do lead their education, so they’re the center of attention.

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So I think if it’s radically different, it’s really putting them at the forefront, so they’re making the decisions in everything, in their curriculum, in their, how they arrange their spaces.

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Just all of those things that put them at the forefront of their learning, letting them choose their path.

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That’s what I think is, makes it, They make their own choices.

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They’re making their own choices, and the teachers are there to help guide them, to help guide their path along the way.

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So I really do think that is not radically different ’cause some people are already doing it.

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Yeah.

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But I think if we could get the whole entire nation to do that, you know, maybe, maybe there’s, maybe there’d make a little difference in our education.

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Matthew Pierzchala: you know, it’s a really interesting con-concept.

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Um, you know, I think at its core, radically student-centered to mean– to me means that we need to be putting the students, you know, at the center of, of all of our decision-making.

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And, you know, personally, I kinda tie it back to two main things.

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Um, you know, the idea of advocacy for, for one, and then the second one is really just a, a, a more in-depth understanding of the amount of
time that these kids are spending in the school and, and why the, you know, physical environment that we’re building for them is so important.

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And so in fir-first, with the advocacy standpoint, you know, I would bet if you were to go and poll all the architects and the educators and the, facility staff that are at
this conference today, you know, about which group tends to be the most excluded from the design and planning process, I would bet that most would say probably the students.

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And, um, that’s not always the case.

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You know, I’m sure we’re gonna see some great sessions today and, and, you know, certainly the, the tours yesterday, I mean, great examples and case studies of, you know, really
successful high-performing projects, um, that had a great level of, of engagement across the full spectrum: community, teachers, staff, um, and certainly the, the, the students.

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But the reality is that that’s not always possible, especially with K-K12 design.

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And so in those instances where we don’t, you know, have a true dedicated student voice, I, you know, I personally make it a m-mission of mine to help kinda fill that, that hole.

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And, uh, the way that I’ll do it, actually, I, uh, put my kids to work.

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I have a, a three-year-old son who’s in preschool, and then I have a five-year-old daughter who’s in kindergarten.

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And She’s in a really interesting age because she’s just at that age where she’s starting to understand her, her, her en-environment and really how that makes her feel.

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And so, you know, I get such good feedback from, from her that-that’s different from, you know, what, what I would see, for example.

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So what I like to do is early in, in the design, um, process, you know, during programming, planning, and, and visioning, I, I love to, you know, share with her some of the precedent
imagery that, you know, I’m gonna be reviewing with the, the, the school district or, or the client and just get her feedback, again, because she sees things differently than I see ’em.

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I see ’em differently than the teachers see ’em.

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Teachers see ’em differently than the facility staff see them.

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And you get so much good feedback even just by the, like, the joy on, uh, on their face when they see a type of space that maybe they’re not used to seeing.

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And, I’ll continue this as the project goes on, um, and we get to the point, you know, where maybe we have a physical model built, um, and we can start to do some kind of three-dimensional walkthroughs of it.

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I’ll, I’ll, I’ll bring her in again, and I’ll, I’ll show her that.

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And, you know, and just, just the, the, the look on her face, the, the, the excitement, you know.

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And, and I mean, obviously hearing her say, like, “I want to be in there,” those kind of, those kind of spaces is so impactful.

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It’s my, my favorite thing about, you know, being, being an architect.

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And that kinda dovetails into the second thing that I wanted to mention here, which is the importance of understanding the amount of time that these kids are spending in, in school.

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You know, so if you think about it, you use my daughter as an example.

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She’s five.

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She’s in kin-kindergarten.

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A typical student graduates high school, you know, it w- probably when they’re about eighteen.

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So we’re talking about a thirteen-year swing here.

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Now compare this to an, a-an adult.

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You know, a typical career might be, say, forty years kinda thing.

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So what we’re talking about a swing that’s about a third of a typical adult career, and there’s so much conversation and discourse out there about how important, like, work setting is.

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and, and, and really what that kinda translates back to is the environment that an adult wants to spend the rest of their life w-working in.

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And so I would present the argument that that is as important, if not more so, for these, these kids because really for the first X number of years of their, their life, school is their, their career.

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And it’s the most formidable years of their lives.

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I mean, th-these are the points where we’re taking them from babies to the future leaders of the world.

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And, you know, I have to believe that the physical environment is extraordinarily important for helping them develop t-to get there.

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You know, if you think about these students, the concept of getting them to want to go to school each day, that is gonna take, like, ha- half the battle off the, o- off the equation here.

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And so a lot of the, the kinda moves that, we’re seeing with next gen educational design, more of these collaborative spaces, the flexibility wi- within, in the, within the classroom.

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you know, even the, the flexibility of, of choice for, for how the students are, are sitting.

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I mean, I was a fidgeter growing up, and I got yelled at all the time for- Yeah

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for, for moving, and now instead of paying attention to what’s going on, I’m paying attention to not, not moving.

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Yeah.

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And so, you know, all of that is, is important for how these kids are, are going to develop.

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And I, I, I remember, you know, there, there was always this group of kids that in school seemed to get it.

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They, they understood that what they’re doing now, you know, school is sort of a departure point to what’s coming.

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Um, whether that’s more schooling or maybe that’s a career in the, in the trades.

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Well, whatever it is, they, they, they just got it.

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But there was also a group of kids, my- myself included, that maybe had a harder time sort of connecting the dots that the decisions and what, what they’re doing now has a direct
impact on what’s to come And so I just present the argument that if the physical setting is somewhere that these kids want to spend time in, then the learning is just going to follow.

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It’s understanding that everything that we’re doing here really needs to be a-about, about the kids.

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Dr. Burke Royster: Well, I, I, I believe you’re thinking about that term radically student-centered and, and I know that, that you’re wanting to speak more towards design, construction, facility utilization- Right … that sort of thing.

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But really, it’s what should drive all the things that we’re doing.

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Yes.

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That whatever decision we’re making, whether it relates to a facility design, a facility construction, a programmatic change- Changing system structures, we need to constantly be focused on the impact of that to our students.

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Katie Jubenville: Yes.

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Dr. Burke Royster: That needs to be the center of all of our decisions.

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If you wanna think of that center as maybe having more than one component, you think about maybe there’s a large center with a smaller center in the middle of it, that smaller center where we should be hyper-focused is being student-centered.

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Yeah.

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That larger center, uh, has to do with also being adult-focused, secondarily to focusing on our students.

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So whatever decision we make needs to, number one, be in the best interest of our students.

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Mm-hmm.

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Secondly the best interest of the adults that work with those students.

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Then you have to… if you think about a third circle, then the best interest of our community.

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And if we approach every decision that we make focused on those things, then I think we end up with a better decision, a better implementation.

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Robert Oetting: I’m, uh, not an educator, and I don’t claim to be one, so that’s not what inspires me.

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what I’m about is building buildings the best way we can.

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‘Cause in my mind, if you build a very well-built building that can last the test of time and gets plenty of use, uh, that’s what allows the
teachers and everybody else to focus what they do on students, um, and that they don’t have to worry about roof leaks, HVAC problems, climate issues.

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If it’s done right and maintained right, then their jobs become way easier.

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Um, and also it’s to ensure that we’re getting the best value with the taxpayers’ money that we h- can.

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We have a limited amount of money, so my job, or what I feel my job is, is to ensure that we use that in the best way possible to get the most advantages so that it can be student-centered learning.

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Um, and the money’s not, quote-unquote, “wasted” on things that aren’t needed.

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Sophia Tarkhan (2): Okay.

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So to me, radically s- wha- something that’s important to us is engagement, right?

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And when I say engagement, it is the involvement of the end user in the process and in the ideating and creation of the space, right?

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And so this goes right down to the student as well, right?

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So for us to be radically student-centered, we love it when the student is involved in the creation of the school.

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Um, we actually had this happen at W.A. Fountain, and it’s an elementary school, right?

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So we were able to talk to students all the way from pre-K to fifth grade and talk to them about the spaces, right?

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So we did do a little bit of exchange where we taught them a little bit about emotions, right?

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Made sure that we had an understanding there with emotions, and then asked them a series of questions in a very engaging, um, way.

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We had a bucket where they could drop balls in.

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We had, um, paint colors where they could stand and then share with us how those colors made them feel, right?

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And, um, it was very, um, I would say surprising, because I think, might be getting to the end, but I think that most of us think that students love these bright colors, right?

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And those are the ones that they real- but they’re seeking peace, just like we are.

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Kate Edwards (2): Mm-hmm.

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Sophia Tarkhan (2): And so they actually like the calmer colors, the more neutral colors, right?

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And they actually could tell you that there are moments where they’re interested in the brighter colors, but, um, it’s not the constant environment that they wanna be around.

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So I think it’s very important that they are involved in the process as much as is reasonably

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Katie Jubenville: possible.

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And so then that helps drive

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Sophia Tarkhan (2): the design and- Yeah.

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Uh-huh.

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Okay.

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And it’s a, a- and in the end, it’s a place that they will enjoy being, and if… Sometimes, you know, schools take a couple of years, right?

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So if they don’t necessarily get to be in it, then they’re leaving a gift for the students that come after them, right?

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A very thoughtful gift,

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Kate Edwards (2): I think one of the most fun things about that student engagement process is, um, just the level of honesty that you get, which I cannot tell you what it means to us to actually hear just their no sugarcoating answers.

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Um, a lot of times we will be dealing with, you know, principals and staff, but, you know, also folks from the district, and, you know, we
will be told certain things that, like, “This is what we want,” but you never know, you know, if they were involved in that decision or not.

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And when you hear it straight out of the mouths of a fourth grader who has- Yeah

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no filter whatsoever- … you know you’re getting the truth.

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And, and it feels really nice to be able to connect with them on that level.

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I have to tell you, the joy that I see on my colleagues’ faces while they’re doing this engagement is just magical.

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Sophia Tarkhan (2): Yeah.

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Kate Edwards (2): Um- Yeah … especially some of our, our younger staff members who this is kind of their first job out of college, and to be able to have that, deep connection- Yeah

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to what they’re building, I think it what, it’s what brought us all into K through 12 in the first place, and it’s definitely what keeps us here.

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Jospeh Campell: I think it’s, it’s a combination of knowing what to expect from, uh, these students when they are in the classrooms and in the schools, and what are we doing, to focus on them, right?

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Uh, a- and I never thought about for me as furniture would be a part of that, and it’s an absolute part of that.

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Yeah.

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Um, and so it’s how well we’re paying attention to these, these students and giving them what, what they need.

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And for me, it starts with that furniture and being able to provide something, uh, to them so they are able to learn at the- their best abilities.

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student-centered is what all our work should be, right?

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Because that’s who we’re doing it for.

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Um, they’re the ones who have to learn in the building, right?

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Ed- obviously, educators are a very close second, ’cause they’ve gotta… they’re in the building.

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Um, we, one of our researchers in our firm, Dr. Erica Lynn, did some research on how many hours students spend in school from K through 12, and it’s over 15,000 hours, just the student.

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Now, teachers multiply that times how many years- Yeah … um, you’re serving a school district.

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It’s a massive amount of time you spend, so the environment should be based around shaping that student-centric environment.

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Mayb- it should be for kids.

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Um, they should be part of the processes that we, that we have, because they have very different viewpoints than adults do about the spaces that could support their learning.

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So I think student-centered is listening to students and designing for students and keeping them number one in the process.

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Katie Jubenville: what messages does a building send to students?

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We’re gonna look at that, the message to students as well as teachers, and then to the community.

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Oh,

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Paulette Myers: I think the building should be all kind of things.

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We’ve learned so much today, right, through the sessions, and it just makes you think about what you want students to feel when they walk into a school.

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I really think, we have an argument sometimes in our office that what is community?

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And I always choose, it’s our schools.

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Because schools, everyone goes to a school at some time in their life.

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They go to a school whether you’re a child or you’re dropping your child off.

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It’s just, it’s should be the heart of the community, and that’s what I think schools should really be able to represent.

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So when a new school is built, it’s really getting to know that community and making that school feel like it’s welcome, like the community is welcome in that school.

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And of course, I get it.

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There’s a lot of security safety measures we have to do these days.

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But, but you can still do that.

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We have methods and, you know, we have resources to help us deal with the safety, but also create a welcoming environment that’s completely inspiring, not only just to the students, but to their parents.

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You know?

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Sometimes we’re building in districts that students don’t have the same opportunities, and they don’t know what other opportunities are out there.

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And I think that school is that one place where they can learn, find those opportunities.

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So welcoming, inspiring, and comfortable.

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I mean, you want them to feel comfortable while they’re, they’re at school.

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Absolutely.

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Kate Edwards (2): growing up, uh, one of the schools that I went to, my middle school, was one of the schools that was developed that had no windows.

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And- It definitely sent a message to us as kids that if we weren’t even allowed to see the sunshine or the outside, there was no sense of time, no sense of the passage of time.

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you could tell that you… It didn’t feel like a space where we were being cared for, and I’m very glad that they did go back later on and add windows to that building.

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Thank heavens.

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Yes.

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Um, that was a weird, brief period of architecture, but, that really shaped my understanding of how the students experience a space.

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And if you make sure that it looks intentional and welcoming rather than something that they don’t want to walk into every morning, it changes everything.

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even going through years where I was in, um, portable learning units, uh, in different schools, if the units had windows or didn’t made a difference.

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And it’s amazing what just a little, tiny thing like light and being able to see the outside can do for not only your perspective on the day but your ability to feel like you’re in a good place and safe and learn.

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So, I mean, I think that’s influenced a lot of my designs as I’ve gotten older, and I think the quality of space and our ability to bring in the outside to that space
and to do what we can to help increase attention, which is very difficult, anything that we can do for that, ’cause we know our, our school days are tightly packed.

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We have very quick bell changes, and a lot of times you don’t feel like you even have enough time to catch your breath.

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So creating those spaces, I think, is really important, and it will make them feel like, yes, you are here to learn.

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This is a place where you’re safe.

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This is a place where you can grow.

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I think that’s the, the most important thing I can do.

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I think a lot of the teachers that I’ve engaged with really love it when the spaces have been thoughtfully created, but also when they have the ability to customize their teaching space if they, if they stay in one room- Mm-hmm

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um, because I, I know that it makes them feel more comfortable.

00:17:45.941 –> 00:18:00.551
I’ve also seen some of the districts that we work with inviting these wellness spaces in to their buildings as they’re making new ones, just so that teachers have a place to go, to have a few minutes to decompress, to make a phone call in a private room.

00:18:00.931 –> 00:18:03.341
Um, every day isn’t a great day sometimes.

00:18:03.351 –> 00:18:09.331
Sometimes you have a really rough one, and that’s, that’s a typical human experience, and just allowing them to feel human.

00:18:09.621 –> 00:18:09.911
Sophia Tarkhan (2): Mm-hmm.

00:18:10.141 –> 00:18:27.751
Kate Edwards (2): And to be s- told that it is okay if you don’t have your teacher face on at all times, and give you a place to do that, I, I hope
that helps with the teacher retention and their ability to stay in education and keep doing what they’re doing because it’s, it’s not an easy job-

00:18:27.961 –> 00:18:28.081
Mm-hmm.

00:18:28.081 –> 00:18:36.831
Um, but making sure that it feels safe and separated from anything that could make you not feel safe, but also still tell the community, “You’re here.

00:18:36.841 –> 00:18:37.661
You’re a part of this.

00:18:37.661 –> 00:18:38.871
We do want you to come in.

00:18:38.881 –> 00:18:43.731
We want you to be able to be in these spaces.” So it’s a balancing act.

00:18:43.831 –> 00:18:44.571
Mm-hmm.

00:18:44.571 –> 00:18:44.581
Yeah.

00:18:44.581 –> 00:18:45.861
And Sofia’s been working on that for a long time.

00:18:46.591 –> 00:18:47.671
Sophia Tarkhan (2): Yeah, and it’s a partnership.

00:18:47.886 –> 00:18:49.306
you know, education is a partnership.

00:18:49.336 –> 00:18:54.036
All of those entities have to come together to provide the best learning for the students.

00:18:54.486 –> 00:19:02.696
And so we do recognize the part that the community plays in that student, um, centered learning, right?

00:19:03.836 –> 00:19:05.086
Katie Jubenville: Let’s look at trends.

00:19:05.086 –> 00:19:08.836
Like, what trends or innovations in school design excite you the most?

00:19:09.389 –> 00:19:23.029
Matthew Pierzchala: I kind of preliminarily touched on these in, in the, in the last comment, but, you know, a lot of these next gen
trends that, that, that we’re trying, trying to push for is really radically changing how the, how the, the environment looks and feels.

00:19:23.029 –> 00:19:38.629
I mean, I, I think back to when I was in school and, and, you know, most of us probably in, in this conference today had the, the traditional rows of desks
fa-facing forward, you know, teacher just regurgitating in-information and hoping and praying that, that you remember the information beyond a week from now.

00:19:39.039 –> 00:19:59.619
But, you know, with the way that, that schools are, are changing and really reinforcing and strengthening collaboration, you know, the idea of zoning wi-within the classroom, as an example,
um, the idea of collab– or of, uh, project-based lear-learning where, you know, it’s more hands-on instruction, and now the physical environment within the classroom is supporting that.

00:19:59.629 –> 00:20:08.346
So on a day-to-day basis, let’s say one, one task is more of a group, you know, pro-project where the students are, act-actually actively teaching each other.

00:20:08.886 –> 00:20:18.249
Having the classrooms set up in a way that can support that, where the desks can m- move around, you know, the furniture can support whatever needs that the child may actually have.

00:20:18.709 –> 00:20:23.539
And then even taking that outside of the classroom, you know, providing more collaborative breakout spaces.

00:20:23.539 –> 00:20:40.439
You know, I, I, I love the, the move of providing internal or interior garage doors that open up and, you know, expand a classroom into, um,
sort of a, a gathering hub, and the idea of, you know, a learning neighborhood where the kids are not spending their entire day in one classroom.

00:20:40.449 –> 00:20:45.429
You know, depending on what the tasks and the activities are, they’re, they’re spending time in a collaboration space.

00:20:45.429 –> 00:20:50.489
They’re spending time in a, a small little breakout area where maybe it’s a little bit more one-on-one focused.

00:20:50.849 –> 00:20:54.526
Really the idea that the entire school is a tool for learning.

00:20:54.526 –> 00:20:58.596
I mean, to me, that, that is the most important thing that I’m, I, I’m seeing in today’s day and age.

00:20:59.349 –> 00:20:59.499
Katie Jubenville: Mm-hmm.

00:20:59.499 –> 00:21:07.589
Is what advice would you give other leaders who are changing learning environments from small furniture projects to full school modernization?

00:21:08.549 –> 00:21:25.259
Dr. Burke Royster: Well, I’ll tell you one thing you go back to, being radically student-centered, and then you, those same concentric circles
that I was talking about before, you want to consider the impact of the people, the adults working in the building serving those students.

00:21:25.959 –> 00:21:28.159
You wanna think about the community that you’re in.

00:21:29.129 –> 00:21:31.579
You want to obviously to blend in with that community.

00:21:32.109 –> 00:21:35.209
And I mentioned earlier, we serve very different communities.

00:21:35.239 –> 00:21:35.529
Katie Jubenville: Right.

00:21:36.019 –> 00:21:51.217
Dr. Burke Royster: So that’s important to consider in design or implementation or Whether you’re select- you’re selecting furniture or doing a small renovation, or you’re building a, you know, a 250,000 square foot building.

00:21:52.197 –> 00:21:55.807
We are also, we’re very programmatically focused.

00:21:56.417 –> 00:22:07.187
When we go into design on an addition or on a new, a full new building, we wanna look at what do we intend the program there to be.

00:22:08.187 –> 00:22:27.477
And we want that program to inform the design, but we also have to do it with the realization that design has to be flexible enough, if the program need is different in 15 or 20 years, it will be able to be adapted to a future we can’t accurately foresee.

00:22:28.684 –> 00:22:37.084
Katie Jubenville: But if great teaching is the most important variable in education, what should a building do to elevate teacher practice?

00:22:37.420 –> 00:22:41.280
Sophia Tarkhan (2): it’s important that the teachers feel valued as well, right?

00:22:41.595 –> 00:22:48.815
there is a lot in providing a safe environment for the students, and the teachers are prime in that, right?

00:22:48.835 –> 00:22:54.245
Making the students… The building can make you feel welcome, the teacher can add to that, right?

00:22:54.565 –> 00:23:02.015
Um, the teacher can make sure that not only do you feel welcome, but you are motivated to learn, right?

00:23:02.325 –> 00:23:05.985
And so we wanna keep that teacher inspired throughout the day.

00:23:06.375 –> 00:23:09.009
And, in different environments, it is a struggle.

00:23:09.009 –> 00:23:10.949
And so some of the things she said, wellness.

00:23:11.149 –> 00:23:18.780
It’s very important that wellness is considered for, for teachers, and I hope that, more wellness is considered, right?

00:23:18.780 –> 00:23:22.270
They’re there pretty much on the entire time.

00:23:22.490 –> 00:23:22.720
Kate Edwards (2): Mm-hmm.

00:23:22.790 –> 00:23:27.670
Sophia Tarkhan (2): Um, I know some educators that say they can barely get to the restroom, right?

00:23:27.670 –> 00:23:27.847
It’s

00:23:27.847 –> 00:23:28.200
Kate Edwards (2): very true.

00:23:28.200 –> 00:23:31.250
Sophia Tarkhan (2): To, yeah, to re- during the day.

00:23:31.630 –> 00:23:40.466
And so one is to provide more restrooms, easier access, situate the classrooms where one teacher can watch a classroom for another teacher.

00:23:40.706 –> 00:23:48.756
The other is to provide wellness spaces where stu- where teachers don’t have to have meltdown in front of their students.

00:23:48.816 –> 00:23:48.966
Mm-hmm.

00:23:48.966 –> 00:23:49.326
Right?

00:23:49.356 –> 00:24:01.636
Like, they might just be having a stressful day- Mm-hmm … and they can step away, um, recharge, you know, uh, maybe get some, you know, support from another teacher- Mm-hmm … and then come back in the environment.

00:24:01.636 –> 00:24:10.071
And so, we made a couple of steps, uh, in the same school that we’re talking about, but in general, just an area for the teachers to step outside, right?

00:24:10.271 –> 00:24:22.151
But when they step outside, uh, kind of like a small little garden, but they’re still, um, secluded from the other students, so it’s not like they step outside and they still have to watch the students, right?

00:24:22.181 –> 00:24:28.441
So their wellness is very important, and it permeates to the students and the way that the students feel.

00:24:28.531 –> 00:24:36.851
And so I think that’s one way, um, just to be more intentional in the creation of spaces that focus on the wellness of the teacher.

00:24:36.851 –> 00:24:36.861
Uh,

00:24:37.971 –> 00:24:47.061
Katie Jubenville: When you walk into a school building, new or old, how can you tell whether it is thriving, and what are your indicators that you look for?

00:24:47.471 –> 00:24:52.891
Jospeh Campell: So mo- I like to look at the students’, like, uh, their body language.

00:24:52.941 –> 00:24:53.191
Hmm.

00:24:53.241 –> 00:24:53.611
You know?

00:24:53.651 –> 00:24:59.141
And you can tell whether they’re interested or not interested, you know, the way that they sit in a desk.

00:24:59.341 –> 00:24:59.501
Katie Jubenville: Right.

00:24:59.511 –> 00:25:00.301
Jospeh Campell: Dislodged.

00:25:00.311 –> 00:25:02.951
And the state of that desk, you know.

00:25:02.951 –> 00:25:18.811
So if it’s not a new desk or n- you know, a new chair or something, um, I think the kids, uh, you can… They’ll tell you whether they’re
enjoying this or not, or they just can’t pay attention, or this is not comfortable, and this is, you know, I go every day to this.

00:25:18.811 –> 00:25:21.581
This is not li- you know, nothing great to see.

00:25:21.591 –> 00:25:21.611
Yeah.

00:25:22.181 –> 00:25:26.901
Um, and so that’s when I know I can tell, that that school is thriving.

00:25:26.901 –> 00:25:28.061
And the teachers too as well.

00:25:28.071 –> 00:25:28.261
Right.

00:25:28.261 –> 00:25:29.121
You know?

00:25:29.141 –> 00:25:34.501
So they wanna be able to walk into something that they own and, and it’s beautiful, you know, when you walk into that.

00:25:34.811 –> 00:25:44.041
And I’ve seen, um- You know, as an existing school where I did a remodel and just a freshen up, and to watch those kids’ faces- Yeah

00:25:44.101 –> 00:25:48.701
light up, that is when I know, okay, yeah, we’re, we’re good.

00:25:48.701 –> 00:25:49.601
We’re, we’re tracking.

00:25:49.871 –> 00:25:52.061
We’re, um, we’re doing the right thing here.

00:25:52.813 –> 00:25:59.431
If students were actually in charge of designing schools- What would be the very first thing that would appear in every building?

00:25:59.791 –> 00:26:07.691
So we get, we s- sometimes we, when our clients want us to, we engage students and we ask them, you know, “What, what would you do?

00:26:07.701 –> 00:26:09.881
How would you design it?” Or, “What are your favorite elements?”

00:26:10.321 –> 00:26:19.193
And, oftentimes with the younger students when we have, we ask them to do, like, a drawing exercise, like, draw what your f- your s- ideal s- new school building would be like.

00:26:19.203 –> 00:26:21.641
And, we get a lot of slides.

00:26:21.941 –> 00:26:22.091
Okay.

00:26:22.321 –> 00:26:29.651
A lot of s- inside slides, and roller coasters on top of buildings, things like that, where… But it’s, it’s all fun.

00:26:29.651 –> 00:26:29.899
Oh, yeah.

00:26:29.899 –> 00:26:30.821
Like, it’s all fun stuff.

00:26:30.821 –> 00:26:35.811
So that the m- the punchline is that kids want their school to be fun and joyful.

00:26:35.821 –> 00:26:36.241
Mm-hmm.

00:26:36.251 –> 00:26:38.031
And we should give that to them.

00:26:38.191 –> 00:26:38.211
Yeah.

00:26:38.221 –> 00:26:47.021
So that’s a shorter answer, but- And there are probably- … probably- … some schools with slides and that they’ve seen I’ve seen schools with slides, and perhaps the, the children have seen them as well- Yeah

00:26:47.021 –> 00:26:47.871
and that’s why they want them.

00:26:47.901 –> 00:26:47.921
Yeah.

00:26:47.921 –> 00:26:50.586
But I think they’re, they don’t really have a limit, right?

00:26:50.596 –> 00:26:50.616
Yeah.

00:26:50.626 –> 00:27:01.146
Like, we all have, come with our pragmatic, like, we know there’s a budget, we know w- you know, they… And if you say, “Draw your ideal building,” they don’t, they don’t have a limit on what they’re gonna draw.

00:27:01.156 –> 00:27:08.636
And I think having massive amount of, like, roller coasters and slides are perfectly allowable in a child’s mind to put in their school.

00:27:08.636 –> 00:27:10.506
And so- Yeah … do it if you can.

00:27:11.582 –> 00:27:20.093
So how do you approach a school, design process with maximum impact- Yeah … in mind, not just replacement of a building?

00:27:20.093 –> 00:27:20.113
Yeah.

00:27:20.123 –> 00:27:25.333
For, for me, as, you know, working for Perkins & Will for a long time, design is a huge part of what we do.

00:27:25.613 –> 00:27:35.329
Um, we feel like, well, I, I, I feel like we wouldn’t be serving our clients well if we weren’t, giving them the very best things that we could give them.

00:27:35.439 –> 00:27:40.200
I always say good design doesn’t have to cost more, and, there’s always a budget.

00:27:40.420 –> 00:27:46.660
There’s always a budget, and it’s, it’s oftentimes, uh, you know, a m- a m- middle or a lower budget.

00:27:46.670 –> 00:28:01.851
So, I think putting, putting, some thought into where the biggest bang for the buck needs to be from a design standpoint, and restraining, you know, areas from a design standpoint where it doesn’t need to be high impact.

00:28:02.201 –> 00:28:16.589
I mean, every space will be high impact, but, really understanding how to use that budget in a way that, um, can make a beautiful building, but do it on the same budget as, you know, somebody who might not do it the same way- Right

00:28:16.589 –> 00:28:21.604
design it the same way, if Thanks for joining us as we took the Better Learning Podcast on the road.

00:28:21.844 –> 00:28:29.154
We hope these conversations gave you new ideas, fresh perspectives, and a glimpse into the incredible work happening in learning environments across the country.

00:28:29.804 –> 00:28:36.314
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and leave us a comment sharing your favorite insight or where you’d like to see us record next time.

00:28:36.774 –> 00:28:42.474
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00:28:43.054 –> 00:28:46.114
Thanks for being a part of the Better Learning community, and we’ll see you next time.