---
title: "EPISODE 359 with Mark Odsather"
id: "6339"
type: "podcast"
slug: "episode-359-with-mark-odsather"
published_at: "2026-11-10T15:24:35+00:00"
modified_at: "2026-11-10T15:24:35+00:00"
url: "https://kay-twelve.com/podcast/episode-359-with-mark-odsather/"
markdown_url: "https://kay-twelve.com/podcast/episode-359-with-mark-odsather.md"
taxonomy_podcast_host:
  - "Jeff Kubiak"
taxonomy_podcast_subject:
  - "School Leadership & Design"
---

### EPISODE 359 with Mark Odsather

#### November 10, 2026

Jeff Kubiak sits down with Mark Odsather, Superintendent of Pleasant View Elementary School District in California’s Central Valley, to explore what happens when schools move beyond compliance and give students and educators greater agency.

#### Overview:

Jeff Kubiak sits down with Mark Odsather, Superintendent of Pleasant View Elementary School District in California’s Central Valley, to explore what happens when schools move beyond compliance and give students and educators greater agency. Drawing on more than 25 years in education, Mark shares how his experience in a community with vastly different opportunities shaped his commitment to creating a more equitable education system. The conversation explores Pleasant View’s transformation into a collaborative, learner-centered environment, including open classrooms, competency-based learning, and authentic projects that connect learning to real-world experiences. Mark discusses why collaboration between teachers matters more than competition, how students can take ownership of their learning, and why rural school districts may be uniquely positioned to lead educational innovation. From an electric bus conversion project involving students and community members to international partnerships with educators in Brazil, Mark explains how schools can become transformational forces for students, families, and entire communities.

#### Meet Our Guest:

**About About Mark Odsather:**

Mark Odsather is a visionary educator and innovative leader in education. With over 25 years of experience, Mark has made a name for himself as a forward-thinking educator who is always pushing the boundaries of what is possible. Throughout his career, Mark has been committed to providing students with the best possible education and to empowering teachers and administrators to create learning environments that are engaging, inclusive, and effective. He believes that education has the power to transform lives and communities, and he is dedicated to making that transformation possible for as many students and their families as possible. Mark has recently assembled a team of educators from across the world to co-design and build the education system of the future.

#### Watch on YouTube:

[https://youtu.be/l8qJ-i_LW4I](https://youtu.be/l8qJ-i_LW4I)

#### Takeaways:

- **Putting students first means being willing to challenge the status quo** Dr. Rodriguez reflects on a mentor who transformed her understanding of leadership and taught her to stand firm in doing what is best for children. She explains why student-centered decisions sometimes require perseverance, even when others disagree.
- **Culturally responsive teaching helps students feel they belong** Students bring different cultural backgrounds, experiences, and ways of understanding the world into the classroom. Dr. Rodriguez shares examples of how recognizing and celebrating those differences can strengthen relationships, engagement, and the wider school community.
- **Trauma-informed practices support the whole child** Students and staff may carry challenges that are not immediately visible. Dr. Rodriguez discusses practical approaches, including mindful minutes, grounding activities, restorative conversations, and ongoing support, that help schools respond to students’ academic, behavioral, and emotional needs.
- **Young women need opportunities to build confidence and leadership skills early** Through Girls Emerging as Women Leaders (GEWL), Dr. Rodriguez helps middle school girls explore self-esteem, body image, human rights, and leadership. She explains why she believes these conversations should begin before girls reach high school and how the program has grown since its launch.
- **Consistent progress monitoring helps schools respond before students fall behind** Dr. Rodriguez explains how assessment, regular progress monitoring, and multi-tiered systems of support help educators identify learning needs and provide targeted interventions. She shares how this approach has contributed to stronger early learning outcomes in her district.

#### The Host:

**Connect with co-host, Jeff Kubiak:**

LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreykubiak/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreykubiak/)

**Learn More About Kay-Twelve:**

Website: [http://kay-twelve.com/](http://kay-twelve.com/)

LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/company/kay-twelve-com/](https://www.linkedin.com/company/kay-twelve-com/)

Instagram: [https://www.instagram.com/kay_twelve/](https://www.instagram.com/kay_twelve/)

**Episode 359 of the Better Learning Podcast**

Kevin Stoller is the host of the Better Learning Podcast and Co-Founder of Kay-Twelve, a national leader for educational furniture. Learn more about creating better learning environments at [www.Kay-Twelve.com](http://www.localhost:10054/)
.

#### Our Partners:

**For more information on our partners:**  
 Association for Learning Environments (A4LE) – [https://www.a4le.org/](https://www.a4le.org/)
  
 Education Leaders’ Organization – [https://www.ed-leaders.org/](https://www.ed-leaders.org/)
  
 Second Class Foundation – [https://secondclassfoundation.org/](https://secondclassfoundation.org/)
  
 EDmarket – [https://www.edmarket.org/](https://www.edmarket.org/)
  
 Catapult @ Penn GSE – [https://catapult.gse.upenn.edu/](https://catapult.gse.upenn.edu/)

#### Read Transcript:

00:00:00.000 –> 00:00:03.071  
 So growing up there, I got to see  
 firsthand how the school system

00:00:03.072 –> 00:00:04.150  
 was kind of an afterthought.

00:00:04.571 –> 00:00:07.942  
 It’s not that our parents didn’t think  
 that school was important, it’s just

00:00:07.960 –> 00:00:10.959  
 they didn’t think that was the piece that  
 was gonna lead to your success in life.

00:00:11.017 –> 00:00:15.193  
 And that didn’t sit well with me at  
 all because I knew that these kids

00:00:15.306 –> 00:00:19.574  
 placed in a different zip code the  
 world would be completely open to them.

00:00:19.956 –> 00:00:22.638  
 There’s a fractal of competition  
 in education I don’t understand.

00:00:22.640 –> 00:00:26.061  
 I grew up in sports, played  
 a lot of sports in my life.

00:00:26.061 –> 00:00:27.386  
 It took me a lot of places.

00:00:27.792 –> 00:00:30.519  
 I understand competition on  
 the floor or on the field.

00:00:30.663 –> 00:00:31.099  
 Mm-hmm.

00:00:31.523 –> 00:00:34.775  
 Pitting teachers against each other  
 in classrooms based on test scores,

00:00:34.809 –> 00:00:37.800  
 pitting schools against each other  
 in the same district based on test

00:00:37.800 –> 00:00:40.979  
 scores of we’re better than this versus  
 we should be building collaborative

00:00:40.979 –> 00:00:43.142  
 systems where we can share across.

00:00:51.073 –> 00:00:52.295  
 Hey, everyone.

00:00:52.295 –> 00:00:55.288  
 Welcome to the Better Learning Podcast.

00:00:55.557 –> 00:01:04.406  
 Today, our guest is Mark Odsather, the  
 unbelievable servant and superintendent

00:01:04.406 –> 00:01:07.327  
 of Pleasant View Elementary  
 School District in Tulare County.

00:01:07.337 –> 00:01:08.714  
 He’s been here since 2010.

00:01:09.059 –> 00:01:13.331  
 His roots go back to the community,  
 back to 1998, when he arrived

00:01:13.331 –> 00:01:14.388  
 as a fourth grade teacher.

00:01:14.941 –> 00:01:16.863  
 Raised in Medina, Washington.

00:01:17.476 –> 00:01:21.210  
 Quite a different, uh, zip  
 code than where he is now, and,

00:01:21.212 –> 00:01:22.254  
 uh, w- we’ll get into that.

00:01:22.254 –> 00:01:26.044  
 But Mark’s on early about the  
 success comes from access, networks,

00:01:26.044 –> 00:01:27.889  
 and experiences outside of school.

00:01:28.535 –> 00:01:32.713  
 Made it his mission to give rural Central  
 Valley students those same opportunities,

00:01:32.713 –> 00:01:35.948  
 and under his leadership, Pleasant View,  
 a small district where most families

00:01:35.950 –> 00:01:39.755  
 qualify for free and reduced lunch, and  
 nearly half the students are English

00:01:39.758 –> 00:01:43.409  
 learners, has become a nationally  
 recognized model for competency-based,

00:01:43.595 –> 00:01:45.075  
 learner-centered education.

00:01:45.826 –> 00:01:49.177  
 The district has replaced traditional  
 classrooms with shared learning spaces,

00:01:49.195 –> 00:01:53.654  
 adopted the ARC framework, originally  
 developed by Luminares Schools in

00:01:53.657 –> 00:01:58.159  
 Brazil, and uses the Arc Mosaico  
 platform to make skills like the

00:01:58.161 –> 00:02:00.075  
 collaboration and perseverance visible.

00:02:00.403 –> 00:02:04.033  
 Mark is now expanding his work through the  
 international partnerships that connect

00:02:04.042 –> 00:02:06.401  
 educators and students across borders.

00:02:07.007 –> 00:02:11.175  
 And it’s amazing that I had an  
 opportunity to walk through both

00:02:11.175 –> 00:02:14.621  
 schools with, uh, Mark today, and we’ll  
 get into a little bit about that, but

00:02:14.837 –> 00:02:16.047  
 thanks for being with us, my friend.

00:02:16.195 –> 00:02:16.688  
 You bet.

00:02:17.230 –> 00:02:21.651  
 So g- give me a little bit of, uh, the  
 juxtaposition of growing up in Medina.

00:02:21.967 –> 00:02:26.554  
 Some people don’t know where that is,  
 but it’s, it’s a fairly wealthy zip

00:02:26.555 –> 00:02:35.333  
 code And then being in, um, one of what  
 the demographic surveys consider this

00:02:35.340 –> 00:02:39.975  
 is one of the poorest zip codes in not  
 only California, but United States.

00:02:40.198 –> 00:02:40.638  
 Correct.

00:02:40.652 –> 00:02:41.209  
 Talk to me.

00:02:41.360 –> 00:02:44.629  
 Yeah, I- So growing up, I’m, I’m  
 from the northwest originally.

00:02:44.663 –> 00:02:47.710  
 M- Medina is a suburb of Seattle.

00:02:48.071 –> 00:02:51.634  
 Actually it’s closest to Bellevue, which  
 is just right across Lake Washington.

00:02:51.722 –> 00:02:55.099  
 It’s most notably probably  
 known as the home of Bill Gates.

00:02:55.619 –> 00:02:59.684  
 So those are the types of families that  
 I grew up around in the, I think it’s

00:02:59.687 –> 00:03:01.341  
 now referred to as the Golden Coast.

00:03:01.439 –> 00:03:05.118  
 Uh- … uh, which obviously during  
 the tech industry kind of exploded up

00:03:05.119 –> 00:03:08.434  
 there in the northwest, that’s where a  
 lot of people ended up, uh, those big

00:03:08.436 –> 00:03:10.464  
 executives ended up moving to was Medina.

00:03:10.913 –> 00:03:13.984  
 So growing up there, I got to see  
 firsthand how the school system

00:03:13.985 –> 00:03:15.063  
 was kind of an afterthought.

00:03:15.484 –> 00:03:18.855  
 It’s not that our parents didn’t think  
 that school was important, it’s just

00:03:18.873 –> 00:03:21.872  
 they didn’t think that was the piece that  
 was gonna lead to your success in life.

00:03:21.950 –> 00:03:24.163  
 It was through social  
 capital, building networks.

00:03:24.163 –> 00:03:28.153  
 I, I was surrounded by, uh, fathers  
 who were CEOs of major companies.

00:03:28.564 –> 00:03:32.008  
 And they always imparted on all of us  
 that we were gonna be successful in life.

00:03:32.525 –> 00:03:35.439  
 And my friends and I didn’t know how  
 or why they would say that, because

00:03:35.445 –> 00:03:38.677  
 looking at ourselves we didn’t  
 necessarily feel that way, but they were

00:03:38.678 –> 00:03:40.546  
 thinking bigger picture, longer term.

00:03:40.641 –> 00:03:43.554  
 And so growing up in that  
 environment, like school was

00:03:43.554 –> 00:03:46.625  
 important, but it was to get into  
 good schools to build social capital.

00:03:46.846 –> 00:03:48.728  
 It wasn’t necessarily the education part.

00:03:48.797 –> 00:03:52.227  
 And then when I first moved to  
 the Central Valley my wife is

00:03:52.228 –> 00:03:55.693  
 originally from here thought it was  
 just gonna be a stop along the way.

00:03:55.913 –> 00:03:56.374  
 Mm-hmm.

00:03:56.402 –> 00:03:56.575  
 Yeah.

00:03:56.575 –> 00:03:59.884  
 Uh, I had got done playing basketball  
 over in Europe and was thinking of

00:03:59.884 –> 00:04:02.484  
 getting into coaching and started  
 working out here at Pleasant View and

00:04:02.484 –> 00:04:04.954  
 just fell in love with the community  
 and the kids and saw the need.

00:04:05.304 –> 00:04:08.989  
 And then saw that juxtaposition that  
 you were talking about, just the,

00:04:09.038 –> 00:04:14.371  
 The fact that we had these amazing  
 learners, but the expectations for them

00:04:14.617 –> 00:04:15.849  
 were just to get through high school.

00:04:16.480 –> 00:04:20.815  
 And that didn’t sit well with me at  
 all because I, I knew that these kids

00:04:20.927 –> 00:04:25.195  
 placed in a different zip code the  
 world would be completely open to them.

00:04:25.577 –> 00:04:29.281  
 And so then setting out on like, well,  
 then how do you, how do you transform?

00:04:29.282 –> 00:04:32.111  
 When I, moved into the business  
 manager position first, which

00:04:32.111 –> 00:04:35.020  
 I think was extremely valuable,  
 ’cause sometimes we don’t align

00:04:35.020 –> 00:04:36.612  
 resources to educational goals.

00:04:36.612 –> 00:04:37.011  
 Right.

00:04:37.133 –> 00:04:37.407  
 Right.

00:04:37.452 –> 00:04:41.000  
 And then took over as superintendent  
 in 2010 and then happened to meet

00:04:41.000 –> 00:04:43.629  
 some people along the way that  
 shifted my mindset about how to,

00:04:43.839 –> 00:04:45.343  
 how to build the system side of it.

00:04:45.818 –> 00:04:46.738  
 But that was really it.

00:04:46.750 –> 00:04:50.539  
 Like, the need I saw was here,  
 but the kids, the talent was here.

00:04:50.591 –> 00:04:53.718  
 It’s just the system wasn’t allowing  
 the teachers or the kids to thrive.

00:04:53.926 –> 00:04:54.248  
 Yeah.

00:04:54.250 –> 00:04:55.887  
 So i- it’s interesting, you know.

00:04:55.887 –> 00:05:00.139  
 I’ve, I’ve walked through hundreds if  
 not thousands of schools in my life,

00:05:00.511 –> 00:05:06.611  
 and walking through these classrooms  
 today, i- it gave me hope, right?

00:05:06.636 –> 00:05:10.207  
 And so, you know, driving here,  
 it’s, you know, it’s all orchards

00:05:10.207 –> 00:05:12.121  
 and fields and, and farms.

00:05:12.122 –> 00:05:14.220  
 You see workers driving through here.

00:05:14.220 –> 00:05:20.269  
 And then you come across these two  
 amazing schools, and k- kids are

00:05:20.269 –> 00:05:26.734  
 working, and there, there’s, you  
 know, l- m- limited adjoining walls.

00:05:27.008 –> 00:05:30.347  
 You’ve got teacher sharing  
 spaces, kids going back and forth.

00:05:31.347 –> 00:05:35.687  
 And an outsider would think, “Oh, this is  
 total chaos. You cannot learn or expect

00:05:35.689 –> 00:05:42.643  
 kids to learn here.” Talk to me about, uh,  
 the whole modus be- behind what you did.

00:05:42.789 –> 00:05:46.057  
 So I think, yeah, I think people,  
 most people would think chaos

00:05:46.058 –> 00:05:47.485  
 but it is a controlled chaos.

00:05:47.490 –> 00:05:47.579  
 Yeah.

00:05:47.579 –> 00:05:50.177  
 I think, you know, I always share  
 with people, I have, uh, worked

00:05:50.177 –> 00:05:52.964  
 closely over the years with Elizabeth  
 City, who’s at the Graduate School

00:05:52.964 –> 00:05:55.991  
 of Ed- Education at Harvard, and  
 her and I talk a lot about fractals.

00:05:56.500 –> 00:06:00.649  
 These patterns of you know, like  
 a snowflake is, is a fractal.

00:06:00.656 –> 00:06:04.527  
 It’s a similar pattern at different  
 scales, and the, the traditional one

00:06:04.528 –> 00:06:06.172  
 in education is command and control.

00:06:06.295 –> 00:06:06.776  
 Mm-hmm.

00:06:06.805 –> 00:06:10.004  
 So state tells schools what to do,  
 schools tell district leaders tell

00:06:10.004 –> 00:06:11.410  
 principals tell teachers tell kids.

00:06:11.539 –> 00:06:14.568  
 And so the traditional fractal there  
 is more of, like, paint by numbers

00:06:14.865 –> 00:06:18.296  
 versus Pleasantview’s more of a  
 Jackson Pollock drip painting, which-

00:06:18.296 –> 00:06:18.839  
 Yes

00:06:18.882 –> 00:06:22.067  
 … there is some chaos, but  
 it’s controlled, right?

00:06:22.083 –> 00:06:26.723  
 Like, and I think for our kids  
 originally, uh, we put teachers in

00:06:26.724 –> 00:06:29.388  
 isolation in the system, which I  
 don’t think is healthy for teachers.

00:06:29.388 –> 00:06:30.754  
 We talk about PLCs.

00:06:30.791 –> 00:06:34.175  
 Most of the time I think those things  
 are professional discussion communities.

00:06:34.175 –> 00:06:36.233  
 I don’t know that there’s a lot  
 of learning that takes place that

00:06:36.233 –> 00:06:38.101  
 drives improvement in systems.

00:06:38.773 –> 00:06:42.673  
 But so we knew that we needed  
 to build a more collaborative

00:06:42.706 –> 00:06:44.133  
 environment to share decisions.

00:06:44.133 –> 00:06:48.904  
 So our original problem of practice years  
 ago, or our theory of action was can

00:06:48.905 –> 00:06:57.083  
 we build a school system where lateral  
 accountability develops and, um, the

00:06:57.084 –> 00:07:02.522  
 self-efficacy of all learners in the  
 system grows alongside of that, and

00:07:02.603 –> 00:07:04.306  
 can we make it completely transparent?

00:07:04.763 –> 00:07:09.083  
 So everything you see out here is  
 just who we are, and from there, then

00:07:09.085 –> 00:07:12.191  
 we can build out all the pieces and  
 processes that we need to improve.

00:07:12.255 –> 00:07:16.719  
 Yeah, and I… The biggest thing  
 I saw, as a teacher, a principal,

00:07:16.985 –> 00:07:21.293  
 watching your work and others, once  
 we remove the big C, compliance.

00:07:21.762 –> 00:07:23.641  
 Yeah, you know, we want kids to be safe.

00:07:23.920 –> 00:07:25.333  
 We want our schools to be safe.

00:07:26.172 –> 00:07:30.633  
 But w- whose rule are we following,  
 and why did they create that, right?

00:07:30.633 –> 00:07:34.964  
 So when you walk through these school  
 rooms, teachers are driving the learning,

00:07:35.198 –> 00:07:41.282  
 kids are leading the learning, and, you  
 know, what makes that different here?

00:07:41.847 –> 00:07:48.183  
 So I think th- there’s another C there,  
 too: curriculum, which to me- I don’t

00:07:48.183 –> 00:07:51.826  
 wanna get in too much trouble with  
 curriculum people But like curriculum

00:07:51.842 –> 00:07:54.082  
 is a constraint for kids of poverty.

00:07:54.775 –> 00:07:54.909  
 Mm.

00:07:54.910 –> 00:07:56.206  
 And somebody has- Yep … to say it.

00:07:56.356 –> 00:07:56.599  
 Yeah.

00:07:56.629 –> 00:08:02.465  
 You’re limiting kids to something, a  
 textbook or whatever, and they don’t

00:08:02.474 –> 00:08:06.287  
 have the breadth of experiences that my  
 friends and I got growing up in Medina or

00:08:06.290 –> 00:08:10.470  
 Bellevue, Washington, that we got before  
 we even entered the school or got after

00:08:10.471 –> 00:08:12.059  
 the school day ended or on the weekends.

00:08:12.525 –> 00:08:17.306  
 And my kids need access to a breadth of  
 experiences, and if you limit it to a

00:08:17.306 –> 00:08:22.327  
 textbook, not that a textbook can’t play  
 a role in it, but it shouldn’t be the cap.

00:08:22.589 –> 00:08:26.474  
 And so we want kids to discover  
 what their interests are, and then

00:08:26.475 –> 00:08:27.757  
 we can build learning around it.

00:08:27.771 –> 00:08:31.399  
 We want teachers to, to, to work  
 alongside the kids to come up with

00:08:31.400 –> 00:08:34.010  
 what kids are interested in and  
 then build the learning around it.

00:08:34.019 –> 00:08:37.504  
 So the skills then get infused  
 into that, but the kids are the

00:08:37.506 –> 00:08:39.791  
 ones generating the questions.

00:08:40.264 –> 00:08:45.603  
 So w- when you first thought  
 about designing the space- Who

00:08:45.618 –> 00:08:49.368  
 was included in some of those  
 conversations a- and discussions

00:08:49.966 –> 00:08:51.896  
 that works with these kids every day?

00:08:52.836 –> 00:08:53.811  
 So it’s interesting.

00:08:53.820 –> 00:08:57.452  
 Originally, when I, I had worked  
 with Richard Elmore, who, uh, passed

00:08:57.452 –> 00:09:00.589  
 away right after COVID, but had  
 led the h- uh, Graduate School of

00:09:00.590 –> 00:09:02.136  
 Education at Harvard for a long time.

00:09:02.160 –> 00:09:06.179  
 And Richard had done work all over the  
 w- the world on competency-based learning

00:09:06.179 –> 00:09:09.874  
 and sh- had shared pictures with me  
 of high schools in Australia that are

00:09:09.921 –> 00:09:13.539  
 2,000 kids and no walls, big facilities.

00:09:13.544 –> 00:09:17.163  
 And, um … Which got us thinking  
 about, what does it really look like

00:09:17.163 –> 00:09:18.595  
 to build a collaborative practice?

00:09:18.601 –> 00:09:23.092  
 Because we have so much variability in our  
 classrooms from one day to the next, and

00:09:23.092 –> 00:09:25.246  
 … or from one teacher classroom to the next.

00:09:25.267 –> 00:09:28.336  
 And we see it in schools because  
 a lot of the times, parents will

00:09:28.346 –> 00:09:31.780  
 be waiting out to request, waiting  
 outside to request a teacher, and they

00:09:31.780 –> 00:09:34.687  
 really don’t know a lot about what  
 takes place in that classroom- Right

00:09:34.687 –> 00:09:38.454  
 other than that teacher tends to love  
 their children, and- Yeah … and we

00:09:38.454 –> 00:09:40.058  
 wanted to reduce that variability.

00:09:40.073 –> 00:09:43.722  
 And so, uh, we had some conversations,  
 but this was not a mandate.

00:09:43.786 –> 00:09:48.890  
 I had some teachers that asked if  
 they could try it, and then some other

00:09:48.891 –> 00:09:53.074  
 teachers saw it when we were doing  
 rounds and, and they came to me, uh,

00:09:53.090 –> 00:09:57.919  
 that spring, this was about 2014 or  
 ’15, and asked if we could take out

00:09:57.919 –> 00:09:59.294  
 the walls between their classrooms.

00:09:59.294 –> 00:10:02.952  
 And so we grabbed a sledgehammer and  
 literally took them out during spring

00:10:02.953 –> 00:10:05.105  
 break, opened up some more grade levels.

00:10:05.116 –> 00:10:06.741  
 Didn’t mandate it across the system.

00:10:07.442 –> 00:10:09.435  
 Uh, so we had this  
 mixed system developing.

00:10:09.436 –> 00:10:11.520  
 We had traditional  
 classrooms and open ones.

00:10:11.565 –> 00:10:11.624  
 Mm-hmm.

00:10:11.624 –> 00:10:15.940  
 And we got to a point when we were  
 building a new set of wings in

00:10:15.952 –> 00:10:20.110  
 about 2016, where we, we finally,  
 the majority of the school was open

00:10:20.111 –> 00:10:23.946  
 classrooms, teachers working together  
 collaboratively, that we just said,

00:10:24.306 –> 00:10:27.078  
 “The rest of the walls are coming out,”  
 which was only a grade level or two.

00:10:27.106 –> 00:10:27.442  
 Yeah.

00:10:27.522 –> 00:10:31.725  
 And, um, then from there ever since,  
 and I, I don’t think if you tried to

00:10:31.725 –> 00:10:34.972  
 put walls back up in our classrooms, I  
 don’t think you’d make it out of here.

00:10:35.305 –> 00:10:35.813  
 Excellent.

00:10:35.871 –> 00:10:36.317  
 That’s good.

00:10:36.502 –> 00:10:40.293  
 So it’s funny, you know, the the other  
 C word, right, collaboration, oftentimes

00:10:40.295 –> 00:10:46.245  
 you see a group of humans or individuals,  
 and that collaborative, in quotes,

00:10:46.596 –> 00:10:49.844  
 group is often led by one person, right?

00:10:50.049 –> 00:10:53.858  
 So we’re in a group, but I’m  
 gonna talk direct and mandate

00:10:53.858 –> 00:10:54.762  
 what’s gonna happen, right?

00:10:55.245 –> 00:11:00.843  
 Talk to us about the collaboration because  
 when I don’t have a wall and I see Mark,

00:11:00.868 –> 00:11:05.911  
 I’ve gotta work with him because he’s  
 got different likes, isms, everything.

00:11:05.912 –> 00:11:08.865  
 And also our kids, they’re the  
 ones driving what we’re doing.

00:11:09.390 –> 00:11:10.771  
 Talk to me about their collaboration.

00:11:10.771 –> 00:11:11.858  
 So let’s kind of group that together.

00:11:11.858 –> 00:11:12.223  
 Yeah.

00:11:12.224 –> 00:11:13.792  
 So I’ll, I’ll start with the teachers.

00:11:13.824 –> 00:11:16.813  
 one of the benefits of the open classrooms  
 and teachers working alongside each

00:11:16.814 –> 00:11:18.867  
 other is we can build capacity quickly.

00:11:19.306 –> 00:11:22.762  
 Whereas most school districts spend a  
 lot of money on PD, and then they get

00:11:22.762 –> 00:11:27.180  
 turnover in their staff, or they’ve  
 got new teachers coming in, uh, our

00:11:27.181 –> 00:11:31.098  
 teachers get to learn together while  
 doing the work every single day.

00:11:31.115 –> 00:11:35.105  
 So you watch them take their interests  
 and their own personalities and add

00:11:35.107 –> 00:11:38.403  
 them to the group dynamic and then learn  
 how to work together collaboratively,

00:11:38.412 –> 00:11:39.727  
 the same thing we expect from our kids.

00:11:39.728 –> 00:11:43.092  
 So you go back to the fractal My  
 leadership team, if you walk into

00:11:43.093 –> 00:11:44.818  
 my office, I’m in the same office.

00:11:44.856 –> 00:11:46.071  
 I don’t have a private office.

00:11:46.072 –> 00:11:48.845  
 My office, I have the business  
 manager and HR accounts payable

00:11:48.845 –> 00:11:50.163  
 person in the same room as me.

00:11:50.509 –> 00:11:55.162  
 So when we talk aligning educational  
 resources, I know where we need to put

00:11:55.165 –> 00:11:56.808  
 things or where we can move things around.

00:11:56.819 –> 00:11:59.722  
 And then I work my principal  
 and my academic coaches

00:11:59.723 –> 00:12:00.913  
 are all in the same space.

00:12:01.387 –> 00:12:02.636  
 My teachers are in the same space.

00:12:02.636 –> 00:12:03.697  
 The kids are all in the same space.

00:12:03.706 –> 00:12:06.586  
 So that fractal of collaboration  
 lives through all different

00:12:06.587 –> 00:12:07.683  
 levels at Pleasant View.

00:12:07.963 –> 00:12:10.946  
 Um, and our kids are expected  
 to work collaboratively together

00:12:11.946 –> 00:12:12.208  
 Yeah.

00:12:12.209 –> 00:12:13.633  
 You know, it’s, it’s interesting.

00:12:14.633 –> 00:12:18.514  
 If you look facility-wise at  
 schools across the country, right?

00:12:18.514 –> 00:12:24.925  
 You get a lot of these bonds, schools  
 are built that they gotta be these big,

00:12:24.938 –> 00:12:30.809  
 beautiful buildings, and then teachers  
 put the desks back into the rows, and then

00:12:30.814 –> 00:12:33.933  
 all of a sudden the space becomes what?

00:12:34.933 –> 00:12:39.660  
 So what did you do, do to prepare teachers  
 differently to change the practice?

00:12:39.666 –> 00:12:43.032  
 Because you could still take a  
 wall down, but I’m still gonna

00:12:43.042 –> 00:12:45.262  
 have desks in rows and XYZ, right?

00:12:45.263 –> 00:12:45.517  
 So-

00:12:45.854 –> 00:12:46.126  
 Sure

00:12:46.136 –> 00:12:47.706  
 … what was the mindset behind that?

00:12:47.793 –> 00:12:51.227  
 Well, I think, again, uh, most of  
 us, our mental models are of the

00:12:51.228 –> 00:12:52.932  
 education system that we went through.

00:12:53.130 –> 00:12:57.439  
 So collaboration is not a strong suit  
 of something that was developed in

00:12:57.440 –> 00:12:58.900  
 our school systems for all of us.

00:12:58.914 –> 00:13:02.542  
 So learning how to work in that type of  
 space you know, I had done some work with

00:13:02.576 –> 00:13:06.973  
 The Table Group and Patrick Lencioni, who  
 wrote the, you know, Five Dysfunctions

00:13:06.977 –> 00:13:10.033  
 of a Team and- Yep … and some of that  
 stuff, and then even looking at what

00:13:10.035 –> 00:13:13.439  
 takes place kind of in the tech world  
 around how teams organize their work.

00:13:13.455 –> 00:13:16.246  
 We had built out some  
 structures for our teachers.

00:13:16.246 –> 00:13:19.146  
 So they have deliverable boards in  
 every classroom, which are the things

00:13:19.147 –> 00:13:25.251  
 kids, the bigger deliverables kids will,  
 will, uh, bring to, to them in, in some

00:13:25.251 –> 00:13:26.567  
 of the projects they’re working on.

00:13:27.053 –> 00:13:31.989  
 And then on top of that, our teachers  
 have their weekly lessons laid out,

00:13:32.010 –> 00:13:34.447  
 activities, on a whiteboard in the room.

00:13:34.592 –> 00:13:39.272  
 And so we have our deliverable board,  
 and we have that activity board that

00:13:39.273 –> 00:13:42.153  
 leads to their energy impact, and  
 so those things become very nimble.

00:13:42.465 –> 00:13:46.719  
 So if teachers see something going  
 sideways, a lesson on Monday, they

00:13:46.719 –> 00:13:48.685  
 can immediately change course.

00:13:48.767 –> 00:13:51.815  
 They go to their whiteboard, they talk  
 about it, they change what they’re doing.

00:13:52.296 –> 00:13:55.147  
 They also have a scoreboard where  
 they’re measuring what are the things

00:13:55.150 –> 00:13:58.482  
 that we’re measuring, and they’re  
 constantly using those things to

00:13:58.487 –> 00:14:00.001  
 be very nimble in their practice.

00:14:00.386 –> 00:14:03.085  
 Most school systems, they  
 ask for a lesson plan.

00:14:03.178 –> 00:14:06.741  
 Teachers go in to execute it day one,  
 things go sideways, and they just stick

00:14:06.742 –> 00:14:09.913  
 with the plan because it’s part of the  
 curriculum, the pacing guide, whatever.

00:14:10.368 –> 00:14:13.264  
 Our teachers have the ability to make  
 decisions in the moment and change the

00:14:13.266 –> 00:14:16.840  
 direction for the rest of the week or the  
 activities they, they have to do, and they

00:14:16.840 –> 00:14:20.623  
 align it with their energy impact board  
 that also is visible to all the kids.

00:14:21.129 –> 00:14:25.789  
 So they, they rank the things that are,  
 that are gonna have the greatest impact

00:14:25.790 –> 00:14:30.228  
 on children’s learning and will require  
 the most energy, and those are the things

00:14:30.228 –> 00:14:31.767  
 we want them to focus on during the week.

00:14:31.865 –> 00:14:35.386  
 Yeah, well, you can al- Yeah … you  
 also see the malleability, too, right?

00:14:35.387 –> 00:14:43.529  
 So you see the kids, they’re  
 having to understand how to contain

00:14:43.530 –> 00:14:48.573  
 oneself, and they can learn to  
 change and iterate and do things.

00:14:48.573 –> 00:14:53.404  
 And then the teachers are also malleable  
 because they’ve got 50 or 60 kids in

00:14:53.404 –> 00:14:55.474  
 a room instead of just 10, 20, 30.

00:14:55.617 –> 00:14:56.332  
 Yeah, absolutely.

00:14:56.332 –> 00:14:59.785  
 Self-regulation, which is one of these  
 things, honestly, like I’ve seen adults

00:14:59.787 –> 00:15:01.193  
 that struggle with self-regulation.

00:15:01.193 –> 00:15:01.492  
 Right.

00:15:01.492 –> 00:15:04.675  
 Go to big PD, and can they stay focused  
 on- … somebody talking to them?

00:15:04.681 –> 00:15:08.476  
 Like, I think that was the one thing  
 that when the, the team that had arrived

00:15:08.485 –> 00:15:12.798  
 from Brazil went into our classrooms  
 they were most impressed with, which

00:15:12.799 –> 00:15:14.585  
 was the self-regulation of our kids.

00:15:14.854 –> 00:15:16.697  
 So the whistle had blown from recess.

00:15:16.698 –> 00:15:19.272  
 Our kids came in while we were  
 talking in a different room.

00:15:19.272 –> 00:15:21.776  
 The kids all came in, sat down,  
 got right to work because they

00:15:21.776 –> 00:15:24.176  
 knew what was expected of them  
 and what they had to work on.

00:15:24.688 –> 00:15:29.599  
 We don’t have to… a- again, going back  
 to the chaos versus, like, control, by

00:15:29.600 –> 00:15:34.272  
 releasing control, we have more control  
 because the kids are the ones that are

00:15:34.345 –> 00:15:35.972  
 doing the, they’re controlling themselves.

00:15:36.049 –> 00:15:36.378  
 Yeah.

00:15:36.423 –> 00:15:39.624  
 And that, you know, that falls back on  
 conversation we had a little while ago.

00:15:39.637 –> 00:15:42.366  
 We were talking about, you know,  
 the ceiling or the limits, right?

00:15:42.366 –> 00:15:46.190  
 And so, you know, you walk out this  
 area, you see a big, beautiful blue

00:15:46.191 –> 00:15:53.303  
 sky, and limitations or expect-  
 versus expectations on students.

00:15:53.325 –> 00:15:55.330  
 Kind of share what your thoughts on that.

00:15:55.608 –> 00:15:59.959  
 I th- again, going back to my friends  
 in the community I grew up in, there was

00:15:59.970 –> 00:16:02.119  
 always high expectations placed around us.

00:16:02.373 –> 00:16:04.267  
 And again, when you’re young  
 and you’re growing up, you

00:16:04.267 –> 00:16:05.443  
 don’t fully understand that.

00:16:05.454 –> 00:16:09.684  
 As I got older, I realized that my  
 friends and I all just felt like

00:16:09.684 –> 00:16:11.019  
 we were gonna be successful- Mm-hmm

00:16:11.019 –> 00:16:15.586  
 really successful at whatever  
 career we chose, which I- all of my

00:16:15.587 –> 00:16:18.271  
 friends that I grew up with are very  
 successful, but all have different

00:16:18.271 –> 00:16:21.975  
 career choices and different paths,  
 but were- but are successful.

00:16:22.162 –> 00:16:27.237  
 And so my kids here at Pleasant View  
 they can do the same thing, right?

00:16:27.260 –> 00:16:31.229  
 I want them to pick what they’re  
 passionate about, follow it, and but

00:16:31.242 –> 00:16:35.114  
 success comes from certain skill sets,  
 and we can develop those skill sets.

00:16:35.479 –> 00:16:37.320  
 A lot of times they’re  
 referred to as soft skills.

00:16:37.359 –> 00:16:37.758  
 Mm-hmm.

00:16:38.143 –> 00:16:40.960  
 I just think they’re the skills that  
 make us successful in life, and actually,

00:16:40.961 –> 00:16:45.212  
 I think there was a study in 1916 by  
 the Mann Engineering School of and

00:16:45.223 –> 00:16:49.361  
 where they found that, like, greater  
 success and happiness in life came

00:16:49.362 –> 00:16:53.273  
 from people who had more well-developed  
 soft skills, and then I think Carnegie,

00:16:53.283 –> 00:16:56.683  
 Harvard, and Stanford replicated  
 it and found the exact same thing.

00:16:56.684 –> 00:17:01.124  
 But here we are focused on hard skills  
 predominantly in K-12 education.

00:17:01.703 –> 00:17:02.665  
 Yeah, definitely.

00:17:02.665 –> 00:17:07.691  
 So let’s jump and finish one more thing  
 with the, uh, the co-teaching model-ish.

00:17:08.218 –> 00:17:17.190  
 How did you, first of all, understand  
 and kind of marinate on trust and

00:17:17.202 –> 00:17:18.714  
 lateral accountability, right?

00:17:18.715 –> 00:17:22.968  
 We’ve got two adults, possibly  
 three, four, whatever, co-teaching.

00:17:23.689 –> 00:17:25.376  
 That lateral accountability, right?

00:17:25.411 –> 00:17:28.545  
 Like, Mark is watching  
 me, I’m watching Mark.

00:17:28.954 –> 00:17:30.769  
 Wh- where is that shift?

00:17:30.791 –> 00:17:32.316  
 So I, I’ll go back to the fractals.

00:17:32.317 –> 00:17:35.854  
 It’s interesting you bring that up  
 because the traditional fractal, when we

00:17:35.854 –> 00:17:39.969  
 first started releasing control to kids,  
 they would tell our teachers, “Well,

00:17:39.970 –> 00:17:41.365  
 you’re supposed to tell me what to do.”

00:17:42.044 –> 00:17:43.187  
 And the teachers wouldn’t tell them.

00:17:43.187 –> 00:17:43.843  
 They would sit.

00:17:44.103 –> 00:17:44.357  
 Yep.

00:17:44.403 –> 00:17:47.927  
 And we don’t want our kids looking to  
 the teacher for all of their answers.

00:17:48.498 –> 00:17:52.292  
 They can be a resource, but  
 they shouldn’t be the person

00:17:52.293 –> 00:17:53.801  
 making every decision for us.

00:17:54.113 –> 00:17:56.263  
 That’s not the people we want  
 going out in the workplace.

00:17:56.270 –> 00:17:56.346  
 Right.

00:17:56.350 –> 00:18:00.288  
 In fact, that’s what the workplace is, is  
 complaining about is that we need people

00:18:00.289 –> 00:18:04.775  
 that are critical thinkers, that are  
 collaborators, that are creative, and but

00:18:04.776 –> 00:18:07.704  
 we’re traditionally in our mental models  
 of education, what we’re really building

00:18:07.706 –> 00:18:10.790  
 is compliance, and they were, they were  
 designed to build compliant people.

00:18:10.841 –> 00:18:11.309  
 Yes.

00:18:11.418 –> 00:18:15.383  
 And so the same fractal  
 appears at every level, right?

00:18:15.384 –> 00:18:18.542  
 We want our teachers to be  
 creative, so they can’t be looking

00:18:18.542 –> 00:18:21.573  
 to Mr. Mark for approval, which  
 I’m known as Mr. Mark out here.

00:18:21.702 –> 00:18:25.371  
 But w- I don’t want them  
 looking t- for my validation.

00:18:25.843 –> 00:18:28.219  
 I want them to know they’re doing  
 a good job, just like I want my

00:18:28.219 –> 00:18:31.266  
 students to know what a good job  
 is by the work that they’re doing.

00:18:31.280 –> 00:18:35.756  
 And so releasing that pressure, which  
 I know our mental models, people

00:18:35.756 –> 00:18:39.735  
 will still feel like- they when  
 your administrator walks in the room

00:18:39.736 –> 00:18:41.294  
 that, you know, is he evaluating?

00:18:41.294 –> 00:18:44.231  
 But that’s a mental model  
 of school systems past.

00:18:44.242 –> 00:18:46.087  
 I don’t walk in evaluating.

00:18:46.464 –> 00:18:49.806  
 I honestly just walk in nowadays  
 especially just inspired by what I

00:18:49.818 –> 00:18:51.236  
 see taking place in my classrooms.

00:18:51.264 –> 00:18:56.182  
 I see my teachers who love children,  
 who are encouragers in their lives, and

00:18:56.183 –> 00:18:59.474  
 are supporting and guiding them, but  
 aren’t making the decisions for them.

00:19:00.105 –> 00:19:01.656  
 And I see the same thing in our kids.

00:19:01.656 –> 00:19:05.430  
 I see kids that are very compassionate  
 and empathetic towards one another.

00:19:05.430 –> 00:19:08.024  
 We just had a group, one of the  
 projects I think our eighth graders

00:19:08.025 –> 00:19:11.095  
 decided a couple of them wanted to  
 do was we wanna create a project on

00:19:11.095 –> 00:19:12.753  
 welcoming new students into our school.

00:19:13.206 –> 00:19:16.524  
 So they wanna make sure  
 that kids feel welcome here.

00:19:16.751 –> 00:19:19.780  
 And and I thought that, that’s  
 just a testament to the love and

00:19:19.780 –> 00:19:22.561  
 encouragement they’re getting from  
 all of our staff, which it doesn’t, it

00:19:22.561 –> 00:19:24.484  
 doesn’t just reside in our teachers.

00:19:25.139 –> 00:19:30.081  
 I see kids sitting in my office every day  
 having lunch with the business manager,

00:19:30.081 –> 00:19:34.535  
 and I see kids up in the office having  
 lunch with our secretaries, and, um,

00:19:34.545 –> 00:19:38.327  
 we have a full community of people that  
 are, are caring and loving kids out here.

00:19:38.390 –> 00:19:39.286  
 Yeah, definitely.

00:19:39.460 –> 00:19:44.322  
 L- let’s talk about rural America, but  
 mostly rural, you know, California.

00:19:44.391 –> 00:19:48.509  
 So you have this great argument that  
 rural California isn’t behind, it’s

00:19:48.511 –> 00:19:50.038  
 building what comes next, right?

00:19:50.825 –> 00:19:55.159  
 So what do these amazing districts  
 have that the big urban or

00:19:55.161 –> 00:19:56.767  
 suburban systems are missing?

00:19:57.767 –> 00:19:59.940  
 Yeah, I… and I, I truly believe that.

00:20:00.076 –> 00:20:03.845  
 I think half of all schools in America  
 are under 1,000 kids, school districts.

00:20:03.888 –> 00:20:03.917  
 Ooh.

00:20:03.967 –> 00:20:04.156  
 40-

00:20:04.156 –> 00:20:06.696  
 Two-thirds in California  
 are under 2,000, right?

00:20:06.696 –> 00:20:06.968  
 Yeah.

00:20:06.970 –> 00:20:07.155  
 So

00:20:07.155 –> 00:20:07.394  
 we’re-

00:20:07.394 –> 00:20:08.593  
 And most are rural.

00:20:08.664 –> 00:20:08.973  
 Yeah.

00:20:09.097 –> 00:20:13.301  
 And we’re probably… we’re, we’re  
 way more nimble than the big ships.

00:20:13.417 –> 00:20:17.208  
 Like, the, the LA Unifieds and them are  
 the Titanic, and we’re, we’re a motorboat.

00:20:17.300 –> 00:20:18.214  
 Like, we’re a speedboat.

00:20:18.319 –> 00:20:19.265  
 We can move quick.

00:20:19.615 –> 00:20:22.279  
 If we have the right processes-  
 Yeah … in place to, to be able to

00:20:22.279 –> 00:20:25.262  
 reflect on what’s taking place in our  
 systems, and for us to make decisions

00:20:25.262 –> 00:20:26.640  
 and adjust, then we just adjust.

00:20:26.641 –> 00:20:30.470  
 Richard Elmore always shared, and  
 Liz as well, have always shared

00:20:30.472 –> 00:20:33.370  
 with me that change is y- there’s  
 two things you need to hold.

00:20:34.062 –> 00:20:37.059  
 One is, if you wanna change  
 something, you just change it.

00:20:37.400 –> 00:20:40.445  
 You don’t wait six months or a year  
 from now to change, you just change it.

00:20:40.565 –> 00:20:42.620  
 The second is, change is generational.

00:20:43.053 –> 00:20:46.067  
 So for example, when we brought in  
 Paideia seminars right out of COVID to

00:20:46.067 –> 00:20:50.394  
 get kids to talk more the idea behind  
 it was that, yeah, it’s gonna benefit

00:20:50.394 –> 00:20:52.880  
 our kids in the seventh and eighth  
 grade, getting the opportunity to do

00:20:52.881 –> 00:20:54.907  
 Socratic seminars twice a month or more.

00:20:55.007 –> 00:20:55.471  
 Mm-hmm.

00:20:55.528 –> 00:20:59.425  
 But it’s really gonna benefit our kids in  
 TK if they’ve been in it for nine years.

00:20:59.425 –> 00:21:03.155  
 And this is where we’ve seen the  
 language just explode out here.

00:21:03.323 –> 00:21:07.687  
 For kids that are predominantly English  
 learners their language has exploded.

00:21:07.699 –> 00:21:10.607  
 But it’s b- it’s because we have  
 this ability to see, like, we just

00:21:10.608 –> 00:21:12.891  
 need, we need to change, but at the  
 same time, we know that the biggest

00:21:12.892 –> 00:21:16.124  
 change will be for the kids that have  
 been in the system for nine years.

00:21:16.139 –> 00:21:16.560  
 Yeah.

00:21:16.595 –> 00:21:19.767  
 Yeah, you have these amazing  
 relationships and bridges you

00:21:19.768 –> 00:21:20.899  
 know, throughout the world.

00:21:20.899 –> 00:21:25.637  
 And l- talk a little bit about, you know,  
 these, uh, the Lumiar schools in Brazil.

00:21:25.644 –> 00:21:33.415  
 H- how did rural Mark- g- you know,  
 become what I would say from the, the

00:21:33.416 –> 00:21:37.849  
 conversation we have, you know, very close  
 with these amazing leaders in, uh, Brazil.

00:21:38.295 –> 00:21:41.288  
 Yeah, I’d say maybe some of it’s luck.

00:21:41.497 –> 00:21:45.859  
 I think, but a big part of it goes back to  
 my upbringing in Medina about looking for

00:21:46.358 –> 00:21:49.440  
 the resources you need and then finding  
 the opportunities and connections, and

00:21:49.441 –> 00:21:52.259  
 there’s plenty of doors I’ve knocked  
 on and haven’t heard back from people,

00:21:52.259 –> 00:21:56.475  
 but I’m pretty persistent around if I  
 ne- if I think it’s gonna benefit my

00:21:56.475 –> 00:21:58.510  
 kids I wanna learn and I wanna grow.

00:21:58.838 –> 00:22:02.248  
 L- originally the Lumiar Schools, I  
 was looking for a tool to capture all

00:22:02.251 –> 00:22:05.272  
 the amazing learning that I saw taking  
 place at Pleasantview outside of the

00:22:05.273 –> 00:22:08.787  
 traditional metrics, the things that  
 we… reading, math, those things.

00:22:09.101 –> 00:22:14.800  
 I was looking for, uh, a way to measure  
 and, and visualize leadership and

00:22:14.819 –> 00:22:18.844  
 critical thinking and collaboration and,  
 and came across the Lumiar Schools in

00:22:18.845 –> 00:22:23.011  
 Brazil, which are a democratic model of  
 schooling, where kids decide everything,

00:22:23.055 –> 00:22:27.090  
 what they wanna learn about, and found  
 a tool that they were using there and

00:22:27.090 –> 00:22:28.946  
 happened to meet some of the- their team.

00:22:29.022 –> 00:22:32.209  
 They happened to be in Los Angeles  
 at a school district, and I went down

00:22:32.209 –> 00:22:36.913  
 to meet them and convinced them to  
 come see Pleasantview, and they came

00:22:36.914 –> 00:22:39.781  
 up, and they will tell you now four  
 years later that I kidnapped them.

00:22:40.472 –> 00:22:42.563  
 I think it’s like Stockholm syndrome.

00:22:42.573 –> 00:22:42.721  
 Yeah.

00:22:42.798 –> 00:22:44.720  
 Like, they’ve fallen in love  
 with their captors, right?

00:22:44.721 –> 00:22:48.225  
 They love Fabiana and Thais,  
 who are my team from Brazil.

00:22:48.305 –> 00:22:53.142  
 They come up twice a year, spend time  
 on campus and, uh, working with our

00:22:53.143 –> 00:22:56.374  
 teachers, meeting with them every  
 week for the last four years for

00:22:56.374 –> 00:22:59.475  
 check-ins on helping them build out the  
 projects because they had such great

00:22:59.908 –> 00:23:03.107  
 knowledge of, of… I don’t even call  
 it project-based learning because we

00:23:03.109 –> 00:23:06.057  
 have a tendency to, like, name things  
 in this country and put them in buckets.

00:23:06.071 –> 00:23:09.465  
 It’s more authentic learning,  
 like really authentic to the, the

00:23:09.479 –> 00:23:13.050  
 questions the kids have, whether it’s  
 community-based or just an interest.

00:23:13.064 –> 00:23:13.462  
 Mm-hmm.

00:23:13.509 –> 00:23:18.782  
 And so convinced them to come and,  
 and help me transform education

00:23:19.077 –> 00:23:21.669  
 starting in rural school systems  
 because I feel like we’re the

00:23:21.669 –> 00:23:23.253  
 ones that can change the quickest-

00:23:23.284 –> 00:23:23.544  
 Yeah

00:23:23.562 –> 00:23:27.306  
 and where the movement, I think  
 can happen at scale the fastest.

00:23:27.668 –> 00:23:28.067  
 Right.

00:23:28.148 –> 00:23:28.908  
 Oh, that’s amazing.

00:23:28.913 –> 00:23:32.631  
 So talking about, you know, culture  
 and leadership Elizabeth City from

00:23:32.631 –> 00:23:36.699  
 Harvard said that your story is complex  
 and simple at the same time, right?

00:23:36.703 –> 00:23:40.356  
 Fundamentally about  
 relationships, building agency.

00:23:40.830 –> 00:23:45.315  
 So what’s one habit or maybe a  
 leadership trait or something that

00:23:45.368 –> 00:23:50.257  
 keeps relationships at the center  
 when you’ve got budgets, mandates,

00:23:50.258 –> 00:23:51.474  
 and all these things pulling you?

00:23:52.474 –> 00:23:57.093  
 Yeah, I think it’s again, I think it’s,  
 it’s what do we tend to wanna control and

00:23:57.093 –> 00:23:58.536  
 what do we need to release control of?

00:23:58.958 –> 00:24:02.450  
 And I think, you know, when it comes  
 to the budget and these things, I sit

00:24:02.450 –> 00:24:05.192  
 and meet with my teacher leadership  
 team and people all the time to

00:24:05.192 –> 00:24:09.579  
 explain w- where the state’s at,  
 what they’re doing, what we’re…

00:24:09.581 –> 00:24:11.020  
 where we’re at, what we’re doing.

00:24:11.022 –> 00:24:13.722  
 So the building you’re sitting in  
 right now is our expanded learning

00:24:13.724 –> 00:24:17.935  
 opportunities center, which was built  
 with some of it was funded with the

00:24:17.942 –> 00:24:22.135  
 ESSER money coming out of ESSER COVID  
 and some with our expanded learning.

00:24:22.204 –> 00:24:26.347  
 Where a lot of districts spent that on  
 different things, I went to my teachers

00:24:26.347 –> 00:24:29.015  
 and explained to them, like, “We have  
 an opportunity to build another wing.

00:24:29.023 –> 00:24:31.617  
 We have an opportunity to build a  
 community center on top of it.” Mm-hmm.

00:24:31.617 –> 00:24:35.064  
 “But it’s gonna squeeze our budget  
 a little bit in the near term.”

00:24:35.128 –> 00:24:38.934  
 And every one of them unanimously,  
 “We need to build it.” Yeah.

00:24:38.934 –> 00:24:41.061  
 Because they were thinking of what  
 we need to do for this community.

00:24:41.461 –> 00:24:44.555  
 Same thing with the medical  
 center going in, the, the support.

00:24:44.574 –> 00:24:49.845  
 So I feel like m- everybody for the most  
 part will come to the same conclusion

00:24:49.845 –> 00:24:51.176  
 if they’re given the information.

00:24:51.302 –> 00:24:51.763  
 Correct.

00:24:51.804 –> 00:24:55.140  
 And unfortunately, I think a lot of  
 times our teachers, the majority of our

00:24:55.141 –> 00:24:58.929  
 teachers don’t get all the information,  
 so they get parts of information,

00:24:58.929 –> 00:25:02.306  
 whether it’s from the district or  
 from union representatives sharing

00:25:02.307 –> 00:25:04.081  
 pieces, but maybe not the whole story.

00:25:04.081 –> 00:25:07.563  
 Whereas, I think democratizing that  
 process more and letting people

00:25:07.573 –> 00:25:11.245  
 have all the information, I think  
 when you put kids at the heart of

00:25:11.245 –> 00:25:14.127  
 it, people will make decisions that  
 are in the best interest of kids.

00:25:14.217 –> 00:25:16.950  
 Yeah, and also, you know, it goes  
 back to the whole compliance, right?

00:25:16.950 –> 00:25:21.768  
 So I’m going to only empower you or  
 give you agency to do X, but we’re

00:25:21.769 –> 00:25:27.157  
 gonna cap it because we have to maintain  
 the curriculum, the textbooks, the,

00:25:27.179 –> 00:25:29.151  
 the, you know, the board of trustees.

00:25:30.151 –> 00:25:35.042  
 A- and it seems like you sure have  
 the flexibility to drive what’s

00:25:35.042 –> 00:25:38.140  
 necessary because the community  
 also believes in Mr. Mark.

00:25:39.032 –> 00:25:42.456  
 Yeah, I think, I th- I d- yeah, Mr.  
 Mark’s been out here a long time.

00:25:42.486 –> 00:25:42.701  
 Yeah.

00:25:42.701 –> 00:25:43.617  
 I think that helps.

00:25:43.648 –> 00:25:48.016  
 I do think that, and I have an  
 amazing board that also, first and

00:25:48.017 –> 00:25:49.487  
 foremost, they care about children.

00:25:49.567 –> 00:25:49.724  
 Mm-hmm.

00:25:49.912 –> 00:25:55.581  
 And, and as long as that’s  
 the primary goal, I think the

00:25:55.582 –> 00:25:56.729  
 opportunities are endless.

00:25:56.730 –> 00:26:00.409  
 I think, again, sometimes we get  
 caught up in political agendas,

00:26:00.412 –> 00:26:01.370  
 and there’s other things.

00:26:01.372 –> 00:26:05.245  
 People have agendas in things,  
 and again, those don’t necessarily

00:26:05.245 –> 00:26:08.696  
 have a place within the day-to-day  
 operations of a school system

00:26:08.781 –> 00:26:10.494  
 in terms of what’s important.

00:26:10.789 –> 00:26:15.025  
 And, um, that, that can be a challenge,  
 I think, in a lot of systems.

00:26:15.025 –> 00:26:18.073  
 But I also think going back to,  
 like, the structures in the system

00:26:18.074 –> 00:26:21.897  
 don’t tend to lend themselves  
 towards people working together.

00:26:22.229 –> 00:26:24.955  
 And then there’s this lens of  
 competitiveness of … There’s

00:26:24.955 –> 00:26:27.422  
 a fractal of competition in  
 education I don’t understand.

00:26:27.424 –> 00:26:30.846  
 I grew up in sports, played  
 a lot of sports in my life.

00:26:30.846 –> 00:26:32.170  
 It took me a lot of places.

00:26:32.576 –> 00:26:35.303  
 I understand competition on  
 the floor or on the field.

00:26:35.447 –> 00:26:35.883  
 Mm-hmm.

00:26:36.308 –> 00:26:39.559  
 Pitting teachers against each other  
 in classrooms based on test scores,

00:26:39.593 –> 00:26:42.584  
 pitting schools against each other  
 in the same district based on test

00:26:42.584 –> 00:26:45.763  
 scores of we’re better than this versus  
 we should be building collaborative

00:26:45.763 –> 00:26:47.926  
 systems where we can share across.

00:26:48.483 –> 00:26:49.430  
 We have two schools.

00:26:49.431 –> 00:26:50.661  
 We’re considered a one-school district.

00:26:50.661 –> 00:26:54.548  
 But there are things that I see developing  
 in my TK, kindergarten, first, second

00:26:54.548 –> 00:26:57.434  
 grade that I see being pulled over into  
 my fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth.

00:26:57.434 –> 00:26:59.736  
 And then there’s things I see taking  
 place in my fifth, sixth, seventh,

00:26:59.736 –> 00:27:03.418  
 eighth that my teachers in my second  
 and third or fourth start to use.

00:27:03.418 –> 00:27:05.779  
 And I don’t even know where  
 that takes place or if it’s just

00:27:05.779 –> 00:27:07.271  
 osmosis when they pass each other.

00:27:07.271 –> 00:27:07.588  
 Right.

00:27:08.225 –> 00:27:13.008  
 But it’s an amazing thing to watch how  
 the system continually reinvents itself.

00:27:13.014 –> 00:27:15.843  
 The school you’re in today will look  
 different three or four months from now.

00:27:15.923 –> 00:27:15.999  
 Right.

00:27:15.999 –> 00:27:16.662  
 I guarantee it.

00:27:16.692 –> 00:27:17.002  
 Yeah.

00:27:17.146 –> 00:27:19.643  
 Some of it, I don’t even  
 know how it’s taking place.

00:27:19.667 –> 00:27:23.007  
 But I think that’s a huge issue, and  
 then most school systems are too static.

00:27:23.726 –> 00:27:24.030  
 Right?

00:27:24.030 –> 00:27:27.061  
 They’re, they’re not… Those seeds  
 haven’t been planted for collaboration

00:27:27.062 –> 00:27:29.265  
 and change and growth, and they  
 don’t have the right processes in

00:27:29.266 –> 00:27:32.481  
 place to allow people to see what  
 the system’s currently producing.

00:27:32.632 –> 00:27:33.011  
 Yeah.

00:27:33.084 –> 00:27:33.334  
 Yeah.

00:27:33.335 –> 00:27:34.271  
 That’s, that’s incredible.

00:27:34.271 –> 00:27:38.638  
 And I, I love transformation, and,  
 you know, you kind of, uh, teased

00:27:38.638 –> 00:27:42.078  
 me a little bit about your electric  
 bus project a little while ago.

00:27:42.344 –> 00:27:46.757  
 Sh- share more so I can hear, but  
 it’s also, it’s, it’s transformative,

00:27:46.773 –> 00:27:49.422  
 but it’s also future-focused.

00:27:49.565 –> 00:27:49.983  
 Sure.

00:27:50.132 –> 00:27:51.763  
 And, uh, well, I’ll start  
 just briefly on the-

00:27:51.763 –> 00:27:52.042  
 Yeah

00:27:52.065 –> 00:27:54.135  
 when we brought the team in  
 from Brazil, we had started with

00:27:54.136 –> 00:27:55.271  
 financial literacy projects-

00:27:55.284 –> 00:27:55.717  
 Perfect

00:27:56.071 –> 00:28:01.206  
 … because we wanted our kids to take home  
 skills that we knew most of our families,

00:28:01.476 –> 00:28:05.558  
 and honestly families in a lot of areas,  
 just don’t, have never had a- access to.

00:28:06.037 –> 00:28:06.719  
 And we saw it.

00:28:06.733 –> 00:28:09.614  
 Our kids were going home and telling their  
 parents they needed to start setting aside

00:28:09.614 –> 00:28:14.154  
 a budget for vacation during the summer,  
 or we had a fourth grader last year, the

00:28:14.154 –> 00:28:17.566  
 parent shared with me that she had come  
 in and talked to her and her husband about

00:28:17.655 –> 00:28:20.566  
 putting their home in a trust because she  
 doesn’t wanna pay taxes someday on it.

00:28:20.581 –> 00:28:22.909  
 Because they had worked with State  
 Farm insurance, and they had learned

00:28:22.909 –> 00:28:26.259  
 in their project during the year all  
 about property liability insurance.

00:28:26.862 –> 00:28:30.197  
 Awesome … and so this idea that  
 we can transform a community.

00:28:30.199 –> 00:28:33.315  
 Schools should be transformational in  
 the sense of what we’re doing should be

00:28:33.316 –> 00:28:36.750  
 transforming our communities, especially  
 our socioeconomically disadvantaged

00:28:36.761 –> 00:28:38.248  
 communities, whether rural or urban.

00:28:38.784 –> 00:28:41.971  
 We have the opportunity to send our  
 kids back into their homes with skills

00:28:41.971 –> 00:28:45.991  
 that will transform the lives and break  
 these generational cycles that we see.

00:28:46.360 –> 00:28:48.119  
 The bus project was an interesting one.

00:28:48.119 –> 00:28:53.735  
 We had Started working with a, a  
 local company in town that builds

00:28:53.824 –> 00:28:58.502  
 electric vehicles, and decided to,  
 to convert one of our diesel buses-

00:28:58.521 –> 00:28:59.480  
 Is that Zero Nox?

00:28:59.486 –> 00:29:02.575  
 Zero Nox- Okay … to an electric  
 bus through a grant that they

00:29:02.575 –> 00:29:04.014  
 were, they helped us get.

00:29:04.408 –> 00:29:09.096  
 And so we decided to pull in with  
 their team, pull in parents, kids,

00:29:09.143 –> 00:29:13.498  
 as well as community members who have  
 automotive or diesel tech backgrounds

00:29:13.907 –> 00:29:16.008  
 to help us work on this full conversion.

00:29:16.115 –> 00:29:19.442  
 And then using the Arc Mosaic, or the  
 tool I was talking about, the digital

00:29:19.442 –> 00:29:24.412  
 portfolio, we have the ability to align it  
 to electric vehicle technician standards

00:29:24.470 –> 00:29:29.072  
 and upload the artifacts and keep track  
 of their own learning that took place

00:29:29.084 –> 00:29:32.305  
 over the course of this bus project,  
 which we’ll be bringing the bus in in

00:29:32.310 –> 00:29:35.451  
 about a week or two to share it with the  
 kids as it’s getting painted right now.

00:29:35.451 –> 00:29:37.784  
 But that was an amazing process.

00:29:37.785 –> 00:29:40.147  
 That’s being filmed, and  
 there’ll be a short documentary

00:29:40.148 –> 00:29:41.691  
 done on the whole process.

00:29:41.692 –> 00:29:44.886  
 But this ability for schools to be  
 transformational agents within their

00:29:44.904 –> 00:29:47.471  
 communities, somehow I think it gets lost.

00:29:47.498 –> 00:29:48.793  
 Parents send them to us.

00:29:48.818 –> 00:29:50.220  
 Our communities trust us.

00:29:51.023 –> 00:29:53.685  
 They really don’t know what we’re doing  
 in the sense of when they send their

00:29:53.685 –> 00:29:58.430  
 kids to school, but they trust that we’re  
 doing the best job that we know how to do.

00:29:58.740 –> 00:30:03.105  
 And that trust comes, I think… Sometimes  
 it gets lost in that we should be doing

00:30:03.115 –> 00:30:06.110  
 things that are transformational for the  
 lives of our kids and their families.

00:30:06.119 –> 00:30:06.512  
 Yeah.

00:30:06.766 –> 00:30:10.275  
 A- and, you know, and that project,  
 the, the, the bus project is,

00:30:10.312 –> 00:30:16.612  
 it’s 360-degree transformational,  
 but also beneficial to everyone.

00:30:16.627 –> 00:30:18.741  
 Like, you’ve got community.

00:30:18.741 –> 00:30:20.421  
 You can think of all the  
 webs, how it’s gonna do that.

00:30:20.422 –> 00:30:21.319  
 You got the students.

00:30:21.337 –> 00:30:26.505  
 I mean, it’s gonna benefit everyone  
 that is in or around Pleasant View.

00:30:26.805 –> 00:30:27.346  
 Absolutely.

00:30:27.452 –> 00:30:27.832  
 Yeah.

00:30:27.932 –> 00:30:31.949  
 Something I wanted to share, you know,  
 it, it’s ask Mr. Mark for a favor.

00:30:32.071 –> 00:30:34.055  
 A kid just taught the adult something.

00:30:34.290 –> 00:30:37.579  
 So, uh, uh, you remember that story about  
 that kindergarten student that explained

00:30:37.579 –> 00:30:40.121  
 the endangered vaquita porpoise to a-

00:30:40.332 –> 00:30:42.131  
 Fresno State professor, right?

00:30:42.131 –> 00:30:42.141  
 Yeah.

00:30:42.539 –> 00:30:45.128  
 And told him the fact that they  
 sleep with half their brain awake.

00:30:45.129 –> 00:30:49.809  
 Like, what’s your… what…  
 Give me a story about One of

00:30:49.809 –> 00:30:52.858  
 your students that gave, really  
 taught an adult something here

00:30:53.510 –> 00:30:54.136  
 Well, it’s funny.

00:30:54.137 –> 00:30:55.567  
 We have a day every year.

00:30:55.645 –> 00:30:56.304  
 There’s a ton.

00:30:56.304 –> 00:30:59.326  
 Like, we’ve, we’ve had students that  
 were up for Businesswoman of the Year.

00:30:59.381 –> 00:31:01.985  
 We’ve had, in the community,  
 next to his Chamber of Commerce

00:31:01.991 –> 00:31:02.714  
 Businesswoman of the Year.

00:31:02.715 –> 00:31:05.580  
 We’ve had kids that have taken over  
 financial… taken the financial

00:31:05.581 –> 00:31:08.318  
 literacy things and gone back  
 and invested their family’s money

00:31:08.645 –> 00:31:09.985  
 as they go into high school.

00:31:10.256 –> 00:31:13.927  
 Th- we have a day here every year, we call  
 it a Day Beyond the View, and this is…

00:31:13.949 –> 00:31:17.863  
 I was sharing with you earlier that  
 Frederick Gr- Gates, who was the first,

00:31:17.984 –> 00:31:22.171  
 um, director of the, the Rockefeller Board  
 of Education- Mm-hmm … wrote his first

00:31:22.171 –> 00:31:26.904  
 occasional paper in, I think, 1913, and  
 it was The Country School of Tomorrow.

00:31:27.591 –> 00:31:29.865  
 And there was a lot of  
 stuff in there I agree with.

00:31:29.884 –> 00:31:33.963  
 Get- getting rid of, you know, reading,  
 writing, and math as compartmentalized

00:31:33.975 –> 00:31:37.466  
 subjects and we really should be teaching  
 these things interdisciplinary- Right

00:31:37.466 –> 00:31:38.646  
 in authentic settings.

00:31:39.071 –> 00:31:42.245  
 But then he also wrote about keeping  
 people within the horizons of

00:31:42.245 –> 00:31:43.493  
 where they first opened their eyes.

00:31:44.022 –> 00:31:46.981  
 So we call it a Day Beyond the View  
 because a lot of the times we have a hard

00:31:46.982 –> 00:31:48.998  
 time seeing what lies beyond something.

00:31:49.224 –> 00:31:51.989  
 Our current mental models keep  
 us stuck within what’s here.

00:31:51.990 –> 00:31:55.958  
 We have a great view of the Sierra Nevadas  
 at times, um, when it’s not foggy or,

00:31:56.607 –> 00:31:59.967  
 um, we’ve got wildfires taking place.

00:31:59.987 –> 00:32:02.661  
 But it’s what, what lies  
 beyond those things.

00:32:02.661 –> 00:32:02.941  
 Yeah.

00:32:02.988 –> 00:32:06.026  
 And so we bring people in from school  
 districts all over the valley to spend

00:32:06.027 –> 00:32:09.090  
 a day talking to our kids, seeing our  
 kids, where our kids get a chance to

00:32:09.092 –> 00:32:10.493  
 teach them about what they’re learning.

00:32:10.801 –> 00:32:15.155  
 One of our projects last year, a group  
 of third graders had… They had looked

00:32:15.155 –> 00:32:19.713  
 at life on land and they were looking  
 at the deforestation of the Amazon.

00:32:19.797 –> 00:32:22.621  
 And so we were talking to them and  
 asking them about their project,

00:32:23.033 –> 00:32:26.478  
 and they’re like, “Well, we need  
 to, we need to put guards up there.”

00:32:26.536 –> 00:32:28.732  
 And I’m like, “Well, what happens if  
 people don’t listen?” “Well, then we’re

00:32:28.732 –> 00:32:31.697  
 just gonna, we’re gonna arrest them.”  
 We’re like, “Yeah, well, what if, what

00:32:31.698 –> 00:32:36.189  
 if people don’t listen and they still  
 go back and they’re, you know, taking,

00:32:36.204 –> 00:32:38.320  
 you know, they’re logging and stuff  
 like that?” And they’re like, “Well,

00:32:38.320 –> 00:32:39.458  
 we’re just gonna have to go to war.

00:32:39.538 –> 00:32:41.746  
 We’re gonna have to-” “… we’re  
 gonna have to start a tree planting

00:32:41.747 –> 00:32:45.107  
 war in the Amazon.” And I’m like…  
 But just listening to our kids,

00:32:45.107 –> 00:32:48.043  
 the confidence they have about the  
 subjects that they’re learning about.

00:32:48.752 –> 00:32:52.251  
 I shared with you our kids that a couple  
 of years ago they wanted to learn about

00:32:52.252 –> 00:32:55.435  
 sound, and our teachers took them to…

00:32:55.454 –> 00:32:56.336  
 This is our third grade.

00:32:56.358 –> 00:32:58.592  
 Our teachers took them to the LA  
 Zoo, and they charted amplitudes

00:32:58.592 –> 00:32:59.918  
 of sound waves of animals.

00:32:59.918 –> 00:33:03.452  
 They came back, went to Cal  
 State Stanislaus to their Fab

00:33:03.454 –> 00:33:05.807  
 Lab and built out parts to drums.

00:33:05.810 –> 00:33:08.415  
 The kids assembled the drums and  
 played them at the Christmas program.

00:33:08.417 –> 00:33:10.928  
 But if you went in and talked to  
 these third graders, they would tell

00:33:10.929 –> 00:33:15.048  
 you all about amplitudes of sound  
 waves, frequencies, how different

00:33:15.050 –> 00:33:16.620  
 colors have different frequencies.

00:33:17.040 –> 00:33:19.884  
 And the fact that our kids are using  
 that language and they’re using it in the

00:33:19.884 –> 00:33:23.032  
 right context blows us all away daily.

00:33:23.033 –> 00:33:26.528  
 But at the same time, the challenge then  
 back to us is, how do we increase the

00:33:26.528 –> 00:33:28.469  
 rigor of the tasks we’re giving kids?

00:33:28.761 –> 00:33:29.897  
 Because they’re ready for it.

00:33:30.360 –> 00:33:33.001  
 And, um, but that that’s an example.

00:33:33.105 –> 00:33:33.436  
 Yeah.

00:33:33.491 –> 00:33:34.702  
 That’s just fantastic.

00:33:34.811 –> 00:33:37.471  
 Let’s do a little bit of  
 a rapid fire close here.

00:33:37.516 –> 00:33:39.455  
 Best thing about living  
 in the Central Valley

00:33:40.455 –> 00:33:42.937  
 I think the access to fresh  
 fruits and vegetables.

00:33:43.209 –> 00:33:44.427  
 Oh, wait, this is our recess bell.

00:33:44.438 –> 00:33:44.792  
 Sorry.

00:33:44.853 –> 00:33:45.572  
 Oh, I love it.

00:33:45.665 –> 00:33:47.042  
 Come over, Chloe

00:33:48.042 –> 00:33:48.920  
 The kids going out to recess

00:33:48.920 –> 00:33:49.357  
 I love it.

00:33:49.431 –> 00:33:49.880  
 Love it

00:33:50.009 –> 00:33:54.459  
 Uh, yeah, I think access to all the fresh  
 fruits and vegetables and food for sure

00:33:54.520 –> 00:33:57.778  
 Yeah, so those of you, uh, listening  
 that don’t know where we are, you

00:33:57.778 –> 00:34:01.440  
 need to look it up because this is  
 really the bed- bread basket of not

00:34:01.440 –> 00:34:03.505  
 only California, but much of, uh-

00:34:03.517 –> 00:34:04.440  
 America for sure, and the

00:34:04.440 –> 00:34:04.599  
 world

00:34:04.599 –> 00:34:05.359  
 America, yeah.

00:34:05.757 –> 00:34:09.360  
 Uh, one word your students  
 would use to describe school

00:34:10.360 –> 00:34:10.742  
 Fun

00:34:11.148 –> 00:34:12.976  
 Ooh, love that three-letter word.

00:34:13.868 –> 00:34:15.462  
 a book every superintendent should read?

00:34:15.621 –> 00:34:17.453  
 Second Mountain by David Brooks.

00:34:17.554 –> 00:34:18.527  
 Oh, okay.

00:34:18.816 –> 00:34:21.517  
 Favorite project you’ve  
 ever seen a student present?

00:34:21.971 –> 00:34:25.185  
 Last year I thought it was pretty  
 interesting, we had an eighth-grader

00:34:25.187 –> 00:34:31.198  
 during her financial literacy project,  
 she chose to look at the scarcity of

00:34:31.199 –> 00:34:37.374  
 resources and allocation of resources  
 of Anne Frank during World War II and

00:34:37.374 –> 00:34:40.382  
 the people around her, which I thought  
 was a really interesting way of applying

00:34:40.383 –> 00:34:44.328  
 financial literacy and economics to,  
 to that book, which is traditionally

00:34:44.330 –> 00:34:45.796  
 taught in very different ways.

00:34:45.861 –> 00:34:48.355  
 Well, there’s your cross-disciplinary  
 thinking- Oh … right there.

00:34:48.371 –> 00:34:48.535  
 Yeah.

00:34:48.541 –> 00:34:49.017  
 I mean, come on.

00:34:49.101 –> 00:34:50.048  
 That was incredible.

00:34:50.051 –> 00:34:50.864  
 It doesn’t get better.

00:34:50.864 –> 00:34:50.884  
 That’s amazing.

00:34:50.884 –> 00:34:50.963  
 Yeah.

00:34:50.963 –> 00:34:51.432  
 Amazing.

00:34:52.142 –> 00:34:54.828  
 Finish this sentence: Rural kids are…

00:34:55.828 –> 00:34:56.794  
 Amazing.

00:34:57.794 –> 00:34:58.361  
 I love that.

00:34:58.474 –> 00:35:02.701  
 So one of the phrases we use on the,  
 the podcast, Better Learning Podcast,

00:35:02.715 –> 00:35:07.609  
 is radically student-centered, and,  
 um, you know, it, it can really

00:35:07.849 –> 00:35:12.875  
 drive the thought and change of  
 what we’re doing in this world.

00:35:12.876 –> 00:35:14.639  
 So what, what does that mean to you?

00:35:15.639 –> 00:35:20.157  
 I think it’s, it’s so interesting  
 because I think of the world upside down

00:35:20.159 –> 00:35:21.731  
 from the way most of us perceive it.

00:35:22.500 –> 00:35:24.922  
 So I don’t necessarily think up is up.

00:35:24.923 –> 00:35:27.430  
 I think up is down when it comes  
 to education and the things that we

00:35:27.432 –> 00:35:28.729  
 should be doing if we flipped ’em.

00:35:29.195 –> 00:35:32.512  
 Again, if we gave kids more control  
 and agency, if we gave teachers more

00:35:32.513 –> 00:35:36.637  
 control and agency and principals, and  
 you flipped it versus that top-down

00:35:36.642 –> 00:35:39.381  
 compliance mode, you would have  
 schools that would be flourishing

00:35:39.383 –> 00:35:43.795  
 in the most creative and innovative  
 waves in context to their own system.

00:35:43.804 –> 00:35:46.651  
 Like I, I met with some other  
 superintendents in the last month

00:35:46.651 –> 00:35:50.081  
 and, and they have amazing things  
 taking place in pockets of their

00:35:50.083 –> 00:35:53.216  
 systems in their schools, which I  
 believe are in every school system.

00:35:53.773 –> 00:35:57.279  
 The challenge is how do you make  
 that the norm- in your school system?

00:35:57.404 –> 00:35:57.416  
 Right.

00:35:57.451 –> 00:36:00.797  
 And that’s where I think a lot of  
 leaders and systems need some help.

00:36:01.231 –> 00:36:05.067  
 But I do st- I just think it’s, it’s  
 op- I think it’s opposite of what

00:36:05.067 –> 00:36:08.788  
 most of us are conditioned for based  
 on the systems that we went through.

00:36:08.878 –> 00:36:14.181  
 Yeah, and I think, uh, United States  
 would be a, a much, much better

00:36:14.181 –> 00:36:19.966  
 position and a leader in the world  
 if we turn that top upside down.

00:36:19.996 –> 00:36:21.600  
 Well, and I’ll give you  
 an example real quick.

00:36:21.601 –> 00:36:24.830  
 I, I d- I worked with a  
 group of girls in a class.

00:36:24.852 –> 00:36:27.377  
 My eighth grade teacher and I  
 worked with a group of kids.

00:36:27.377 –> 00:36:28.756  
 We asked them what they  
 wanted to learn about.

00:36:28.758 –> 00:36:32.668  
 This was about 10 years ago, and they  
 wanted to learn about touchscreen devices.

00:36:32.965 –> 00:36:34.644  
 And so they had figured out  
 that there was six different

00:36:34.651 –> 00:36:36.074  
 touchscreen devices in the world.

00:36:36.084 –> 00:36:38.649  
 So we said, “Okay, group up and  
 you guys can learn about whatever

00:36:38.651 –> 00:36:42.096  
 touchscreen device you want.” So  
 a week, we did this once or twice

00:36:42.098 –> 00:36:43.539  
 a week for 45 minutes to an hour.

00:36:43.544 –> 00:36:44.591  
 We came back the second week.

00:36:44.593 –> 00:36:46.709  
 The kids had given us a ton of  
 information, which they had just

00:36:46.724 –> 00:36:48.504  
 Googled and regurgitated to us.

00:36:49.065 –> 00:36:51.929  
 And I told the teacher that what we’re  
 gonna do is we’re gonna tell the kids that

00:36:51.929 –> 00:36:53.251  
 we don’t understand a word they’re saying.

00:36:53.254 –> 00:36:54.255  
 They’re gonna have to show us.

00:36:54.278 –> 00:36:54.729  
 Mm-hmm.

00:36:55.153 –> 00:36:58.700  
 So we told the kids, “That’s great,  
 but we don’t really understand it,

00:36:58.703 –> 00:37:01.822  
 so could you guys come back next  
 week and show us how it works?”

00:37:02.329 –> 00:37:03.845  
 And I still have it in my office.

00:37:03.876 –> 00:37:07.509  
 There was a group of girls, there  
 was four of them, all CELDT level

00:37:07.526 –> 00:37:11.488  
 threes, which was the, at the time,  
 they were not English- Proficient.

00:37:11.548 –> 00:37:11.894  
 No.

00:37:11.916 –> 00:37:12.146  
 Nope.

00:37:12.681 –> 00:37:16.642  
 They came in with a Styrofoam board  
 that was about two feet by two feet,

00:37:16.847 –> 00:37:22.477  
 and it had all the apps, like Minecraft,  
 like all these apps, Instagram,

00:37:22.490 –> 00:37:25.363  
 that they had, they had made these  
 little cutouts on a Styrofoam board.

00:37:25.426 –> 00:37:29.507  
 They had used duct tape around the edges  
 and labeled it retroreflective tape.

00:37:29.613 –> 00:37:33.859  
 They put two red boxes up in the top  
 corners with rubber bands connecting

00:37:33.859 –> 00:37:37.880  
 them called, and they labeled them  
 LED because that’s where the LED light

00:37:37.939 –> 00:37:42.275  
 had started and shot infrared light  
 across the screen, bouncing back and

00:37:42.276 –> 00:37:43.900  
 forth off the retroreflective tape.

00:37:43.912 –> 00:37:47.595  
 And then they used the rubber bands  
 to show us how when they pressed on an

00:37:47.605 –> 00:37:51.707  
 app, it would triangulate the position  
 and open the software And then we asked

00:37:51.709 –> 00:37:54.497  
 them, “Well, what, how does so- what  
 does software do?” Like, the- Yeah,

00:37:54.497 –> 00:37:55.779  
 yeah … you just keep pushing, right?

00:37:55.800 –> 00:37:58.972  
 And the reality is, those  
 kids just kept going.

00:37:59.610 –> 00:38:02.962  
 And the expectation for them  
 would’ve been, give you a

00:38:02.964 –> 00:38:05.189  
 vocabulary list, memorize the words.

00:38:05.354 –> 00:38:05.370  
 Mm-hmm.

00:38:05.420 –> 00:38:10.270  
 But they went so far, uh, beyond that  
 because we just opened up the opportunity

00:38:10.290 –> 00:38:12.362  
 and the experience for them to show us.

00:38:12.426 –> 00:38:16.829  
 And if we would just ask kids  
 and teachers to show us, our

00:38:16.829 –> 00:38:18.316  
 school systems would transform.

00:38:18.403 –> 00:38:21.889  
 Yeah, I mean, m- for those… This  
 is a mind-blowing moment, actually.

00:38:21.899 –> 00:38:24.863  
 For, for those of you who don’t  
 know, CELDT is California English

00:38:24.863 –> 00:38:29.004  
 Language Development Test, which is  
 gone and, and gave way for the ELPAC.

00:38:29.019 –> 00:38:33.476  
 But Mark is talking about kids that  
 were deemed not proficient in English,

00:38:33.829 –> 00:38:37.651  
 and if you kind of think about what  
 just happened and what took place

00:38:37.651 –> 00:38:39.964  
 in this project it’s mind-blowing.

00:38:40.013 –> 00:38:44.789  
 Because what happened was they were  
 believed in, they were given agency,

00:38:44.847 –> 00:38:49.199  
 they were given some tools and freedom  
 to find what they wanted to, and,

00:38:49.229 –> 00:38:50.303  
 and look what they came up with.

00:38:50.398 –> 00:38:50.719  
 Right.

00:38:50.862 –> 00:38:53.355  
 And that’s because you  
 didn’t have a ceiling.

00:38:53.597 –> 00:38:54.210  
 Absolutely.

00:38:55.210 –> 00:38:59.076  
 Hey, Mark, I am so grateful  
 to have you as a guest today.

00:38:59.078 –> 00:39:00.858  
 This was just a great conversation.

00:39:01.208 –> 00:39:03.275  
 Mark Odseather, right?

00:39:03.314 –> 00:39:03.506  
 Yep.

00:39:03.529 –> 00:39:04.139  
 Oh, yes.

00:39:04.457 –> 00:39:06.974  
 Superintendent, Pleasant  
 View Elementary School.

00:39:06.975 –> 00:39:08.024  
 My friends, look it up.

00:39:08.036 –> 00:39:09.355  
 Follow us, share.

00:39:09.361 –> 00:39:12.537  
 This has been a great combo,  
 and, uh, thanks for being here.

00:39:12.638 –> 00:39:15.213  
 Yeah, I appreciate you coming out and  
 spending the time on campus today.

00:39:15.239 –> 00:39:16.184  
 Uh, it’s been a privilege.

00:39:16.207 –> 00:39:16.657  
 Thanks.

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## About the podcast

The Better Learning Podcast explores the ideas, strategies, and stories shaping today’s learning environments. Host Kevin Stoller sits down with school leaders, designers, and educators to uncover how thoughtful design, planning, and collaboration can transform schools into spaces that truly put students first.  
  
 Through in-depth conversations, the podcast highlights how Radically Student Centered™ approaches can make a tangible difference in schools, inspiring educators, administrators, designers, and anyone passionate about the future of learning.

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