Read Transcript:

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Matt Rogers: Welcome back to the Better Learning Podcast.

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My name is Matt Rogers.

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I am not always the typical host, um, of the podcast.

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I’ve, I’ve kind of co-hosted and stuff on the side, but, um, I’m really excited to lead this conversation.

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Um, I’m gonna get into a little bit more why I’m leading this conversation.

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It’s gonna kinda come up naturally.

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, Um, I’m really excited to, uh, introduce our guest.

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Um, I’m gonna let her kind of, uh, give a little introduction of herself, who she’s with, and, uh, kind of the role that she plays.

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Candice, welcome to the show.

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Candice Leinneweber: Thank you.

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Um, yes, my name is Candice Lonewar.

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Um, I am a director of design at MA+Architecture, and right now I’m just working on really helping lead the, the design of the firm and kind of in all aspects of, of the work that we do, but also, uh, education is a very big part of what I do.

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Matt Rogers: Amazing.

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Amazing.

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And it sounds like from your last name you have some German roots.

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Um, am I

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Candice Leinneweber: so I’ve been told.

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I’m, I’m actually more Bolivian than I am German.

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but that’s a, that’s a kind of another story.

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My mom’s side of the family is, is from Bolivia originally.

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Matt Rogers: Wow, that’s incredible.

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That’s incredible.

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Yeah.

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Um, and w- yeah, tell me a little bit about her story when she came over to the, to the

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Candice Leinneweber: Yeah.

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So, um, I don’t know all the details just because I feel like there’s some hush-hush stuff on some of that.

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Um, but I do know that my grandfather on my mom’s side, um, used to be a politician in Bolivia and actually immigrated to the Americas during a coup.

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Um, and so he was, he was essentially escaping, uh, a toxic political environment.

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my grandmother married a very, very, very American guy, um, and which is why I look the way I do.

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Uh, don’t look as dark.

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but yeah, we, uh, they moved to, to San Diego, and I was born there, grew up there, uh, for a good portion of my adolescence.

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they s- still have family there.

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Still, still go back and, and visit occa- occasionally

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Matt Rogers: um, you said you grew up there, and then I, I believe you made your way to Texas and yeah, what, what’s kind of

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Candice Leinneweber: Yeah.

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So, so the long story there.

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Um, so my, my parents, my dad met my mom in San Diego while, uh, my grandfather on my dad’s side was stationed at the Navy base there in San Diego.

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so they kind of stayed when they got married.

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Uh, my grandfather on my mom’s side owned a bakery, so my dad, working with him, opened another bakery, kind of almost like a franchise type thing.

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There was only two.

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Um, and we had a bakery for a while, so I grew up kind of working in a, in a bakery, you know, on the side.

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Obviously not out- outside of school, of course.

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and it was maybe around I was 10 or 12, um, right around the Thanksgiving… And I remember it was Thanksgiving because, of course, Thanksgiving we always had to do pies the night before.

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So, like, my parents are there baking pies, and we’re just twiddling our thumbs there in the bakery.

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So I remember it because it was so boring at the time.

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Um, but one of those weeks right before Thanksgiving, there was a, a fire in the strip mall where the bakery was located, and the whole, the whole strip mall burnt down.

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And, uh, because of that, we no longer had any ties connecting us or, or economic ties connecting us to San Diego, and my dad owned some property in Oklahoma.

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And so at that point, he decided, “Let’s just pick up and move.” And so, like, just basically we packed up and moved.

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and, uh, it’s kind of funny because I, I was thinking about this question of, like, what got me into education and architecture in general, and there is no clear, “Oh, I was the Lego person.”

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Like, I was– Yeah, I wasn’t that person.

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I didn’t even know about architecture until high school, um, as a possibility.

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Um, and that actually kind of spurred into some of the stuff I’m doing now and, and what brought into, uh, some of the initiatives I’m working on, um, just because of that background.

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Um, and so, like I said, we moved to Oklahoma and, uh, spent a good portion of my time here, high school obviously.

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Um, and then went to Texas, like you mentioned, uh, for a little bit.

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Uh, started in, in a business degree.

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Again, still not thinking about architecture, um, as a, as a degree.

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it wasn’t until, uh, believe it or not, I took, uh, an accounting class ’cause I was taking business courses, and I decided, you know what?

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Business is not for me.

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I, I need something, I need something a little bit more fun, um, more

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design.

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Matt Rogers: funny, It seems like, it seems like accounting, if people are in like the business realm, it seems like the accounting classes are the ones that kind of wean people out of that, that track.

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So

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Candice Leinneweber: Yep, yep.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And, and it’s funny though, because growing up, my, you know, my– Having a bakery, uh, my mom and my older sister were both cake decorators.

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Um, and so they were always very creative.

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and, and we’re talking maybe not the level of Is It Cake?

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but something similar.

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Um, I think my mom at one point won a, a, a cake decorating contest at the San Diego Zoo for, like, an alligator-shaped cake.

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So, like, there’s creativity there.

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Um, my brother was al- my older brother was always creative.

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So growing up, I never really saw my creativity.

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and of course, being director of design, obviously, hopefully I have some creativity.

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and so there was really no awareness to even look for that.

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going through college in Texas, I went there for, like, a year and a half.

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what actually got me to switch to architecture was an English literature course.

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Matt Rogers: Wow.

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Candice Leinneweber: it’s kind of interesting story.

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Um, I had– The, the seeds of architecture were planted in high school.

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I had a college– I mean, sorry, a, a high school classmate said she was gonna go into architecture.

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And so I was like, “Oh, you know, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a field.”

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and then one of our classes, we took a college aptitude test to kind of see, like, what would be your strengths, and architecture was right, right on the top of the list in terms of like, hey, this is a career that is great for your aptitude.

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And I was like, “Eh, whatever.” but when I took the English lit course, I did a paper on, uh, Louis Kahn’s museum down in Fort Worth, and just the way he approached light and shadow and how that
became kind of the story of, of the art form, it just married, uh, art and technical together to, to a point where I was like, “Okay, this is, this is more what feels more like home for me.”

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Um, and so at that point, I kind of made the decision, and I, I, I switched to Andrews University, which has a really good architecture program, um, up in Michigan, kind of hit the ground running from there.

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I haven’t stopped in terms of, like, where I’m going with architecture.

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Uh, I came back to, uh, Oklahoma at some point because my parents still live here, and then took my master’s at University of Oklahoma, and started at MA+ Architecture after that, and I haven’t left since.

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Matt Rogers: Well, thank– Yeah, thanks for kind of going through your personal background there.

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I, I kind of want to pivot this now to kind of talking about like, yeah, y- you’ve talked about your, your history and what, you know, kind of maybe what drew you a little bit into architecture and design.

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I kind of want to talk about like, did, you know, when you kind of made that transition in, in college to coming more into architecture and design.

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first, I guess, what, outside of just that literature course that you took, what, what else led you to, to this and, and, and kept you on the path of, of being here?

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Candice Leinneweber: I really, really liked the, the combination of art and technical.

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I’ve always kinda been a logical type person.

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Like I said, my, my parents, you know, being very creative, um, I didn’t see that self in my– see that in myself at the time.

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but when I kinda saw that I could take an art factor and mix it with a technical factor, it, it felt comfortable, and so I really enjoyed that.

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And I, I will say, too, like, there were, there were times where I was like, “I don’t know if architecture’s for me. This is a lot of work, and it’s just, you know, it’s studios or late
nights and things like that.” And at one point, I almost switched to graphic design, but in the process– I actually applied, but in the process of doing that, I’m like: You know what?

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I’m not gonna be happy.

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There’s just not enough meat to this.

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And so, uh, and the other aspect to that, too, is I’ve always had that drive to do something that means something for people, and so that was one thing that really kind of, um, kept me going in architecture.

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Um, I, I think that’s probably a common trope that architects just wanna change the world.

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but it’s, it’s kinda true in that, like, you can, you can change people’s world, you know, little by little with what you build.

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Um, and, and you can really fit that in, uh, especially true with, with schools where students don’t necessarily know what they– what’s good or not.

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Um, but having the ability to provide something that is beneficial to them, um, is just something that keeps you going.

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Matt Rogers: Yeah, absolutely.

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And, and for those, um, who, yeah, for our listeners, um, you know, I work for a company called K12, and very similar to, to what you’re talking about too, is, the ability to wanna be able to make that positive impact.

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One of the things I love about what we do is we track the number of students we impact on every project that we’re able to touch, and it’s definitely a part to me that, that keeps me going and, and keeps me involved in the work that we do.

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So, um, I love to hear that you said that and just kind of that connection to, to, yeah, how you kind of got into the, the spot you’re in now.

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so one of the things I kinda hinted at at the beginning of the show was that you and I had a similar, um, yeah, a similar thing that just kind of connected both of us.

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Um, and I’m gonna kind of reveal that now.

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Um, so in 2025, you were revealed as one of Ed Market’s Next Gen Award winners.

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And for our listeners, you’re probably very aware that, uh, back a couple years ago in 2023, um, that was the inaugural year for the award.

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We, we featured a lot of different voices from that community on our podcast.

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And what we’re trying to do now is, is still kind of dip into those, um, because it was such a great series to kinda hear from those next gen, people in our industry.

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and Candace, you’re our first one for 2026, so I first wanna congratulate you for that

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Candice Leinneweber: Thank you

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Matt Rogers: and for the work that you’re doing.

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Um, but I, I wanna kinda dig in and say, you know, what, what do you think that recognition says about where educational design is, um, or is headed and, and just how our generation is approaching it differently than, than in past years?

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Candice Leinneweber: what I won the award on myself was actually not specifically for design within education.

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part of my background that I haven’t shared yet is there was a portion, like when I first graduated out of, um, my bachelor’s degree, um, it was 2009.

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And so it was during that timeframe where there was not a lot of people hiring, and so it was very difficult to find a job.

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Um, and so I had worked at a grocery store for a little bit.

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and during that process, uh I somehow got connected with, uh, a local university, uh, Oklahoma State University’s Oklahoma City, uh, university, uh, satellite.

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Um, and they’re like: “Hey, you just graduated. Do you have– Can you teach these courses?”

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And I had had a little bit of public speaking in, in high school, and so it wasn’t completely new.

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at the same time, I was like: “I’m committing to a whole semester.

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Like, what if this just tanks?” I, I agreed to it because I was working at a grocery store, and I was like: “Well, at least this is in the right direction.”

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and so I actually taught there for about seven years.

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and, and I since have taught at O- Oklahoma– uh, University of Oklahoma on an online course.

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And so I’ve got the background of teaching, um, as well as architecture.

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And so what I applied for the award, was really what I’m doing in terms of how do I get awareness of architecture using that f- that teaching background, um, in general.

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And so, um, like I mentioned before, I, I didn’t grow up the Lego kid.

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I didn’t know about architecture.

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Um, I, I feel like I got a late start because of that, where some other people, like, they knew since high school or, or before that they were gonna do architecture.

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in my mind it was like: “Well, maybe there’s just a w- there’s more awareness that we need.”

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Um, and so what I started doing is I, I, I chair a, a committee with AIA, our local chapter here in Oklahoma City or Central Oklahoma, um, where we’re working on building out a framework, um, that we can engage local school districts.

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really what we’re trying to do is create something that can be scaled up to where we create, the ability for students to visit job sites where they can shadow architects, maybe engineers, um, even contractors.

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and also spending time, you know, taking them to a university and let them see what the pin-up process is, you know, for, for students at the end of year review.

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Um, creating a framework that’s simple for us to, to do that’s sustainable, and something that, you know, districts can, can easily
slot into just to create the ability for students like: “Oh, this is something that I think that would be beneficial that I could do.”

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also keeping in mi- keeping in mind everyone’s journey is different And so there’s some people who would wanna go all the way, become licensed, but then some people, maybe that’s not their path.

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obviously being part of AAA, we are gonna recommend that people get licensed.

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but we’re hoping to create a framework that then, that really gives people off-ramps where they can go as far as they are, are able to go based on their unique circumstances.

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Um, and hopefully eventually this becomes something that branches out to other s- states, you know, other, um, technical schools, connections.

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I– Big, big brain ideas.

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Hopefully, like we just gotta get that t-target started, um, type thing.

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But we’re starting to get some traction on it, and I’m pretty excited about the direction it’s going.

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Matt Rogers: Wow.

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So many questions that I could take it from there.

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But I, I’ve gotta ask, it seems like, like you said, you’re trying to create an avenue to just showing what’s possible.

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And I’m curious, you kinda mentioned earlier that, like, you didn’t always know the path of architecture, you know, when you were in school.

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So I, I gotta ask, was this initiative, from your perspective, kind of built around that idea that you wish you maybe knew about that path earlier or sooner?

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Uh, I, I’m just curious.

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Is

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Candice Leinneweber: yeah.

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So I, I mentioned earlier that when I took that aptitude, uh, test, architect was like right up there at the top.

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Um, my first initial gut response to that was, “Oh, that’s, that’s too high of a mark for me. Like, I can’t, I can’t reach that.” Um, just because I hadn’t had the background or the knowledge, to really know better.

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and so I think it’s more– maybe less about just accessibility, or, or understanding it, and more about making it feel obtainable.

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and I think the more, the more exposure that we can give to something, the less mystifying it feels for people.

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where a student who’s, who’s in the, you know, quote unquote inner city, you know, they can say, “Hey, this is a, a path that is attainable for me.”

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Um, and they can be empowered to actually take that path.

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Matt Rogers: I do wanna pivot, um, and kinda talk more about the work that you’re leading now and, and some of like the design, uh, philosophy that you take to your work and the impact that you have.

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and so one of the things that has, you know, just really stood out to me when I first noticed about your background was that you just, you don’t just approach projects from a single lens.

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Um, I, I saw that, um, from your background, you’re trained as both an architect and an interior designer, um, which isn’t always the case in our industry, I would say.

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So, yeah, and in K-12 environments especially, we often see those disciplines kind of operate in, in parallel rather than fully integrated.

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So I wanna kinda hear, um, or how does that dual perspective influence the way that you think about learning environments as a whole?

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And, and do you have like projects where you, yeah, examples where maybe the work that you’re doing right now where, where that kind of applies?

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Candice Leinneweber: Yeah, I, I would say, um, just being cheeky about it, I just– I’m a control freak maybe.

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but on a more serious note, when I approach a project, um, I try to put myself in the position of the person who’s gonna be using that space.

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Um, and of course, there’s a lens shift as well, ’cause you’re thinking about the person who’s maintaining the space.

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You’re thinking about the people who are, are functioning, like the staff and the, you know, the teachers.

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Um, but there’s also, of course, the students as well.

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and so there’s, you know, you’re thinking about durability, you’re thinking about, like, the awe of the space, and you’re thinking about all these things.

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and, and one thing that, you know, also brought– drew me to architecture was I’ve always been a very practical person, and so if I can take something that looks good and say why it’s important, um, like that just makes me happy.

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every time I, I work on a project, I’m always thinking about what are all the things I can do with this one thing, as well.

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So it, it creates flexibility.

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It, it creates, multiple reasons for why a beautiful element is important to a space.

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Um, and I really try to find that practical element because it always, um, makes it more important in the end to the person using the space, but also hopefully hitting all those targets of maintenance and durability and all that stuff, uh, as well.

00:16:57.030 –> 00:17:03.018
all while thinking about, you know, people are different, people are unique, and so there’s different, gonna be different perspectives.

00:17:03.598 –> 00:17:09.738
Um, and so that’s, it’s a really challenging thing ’cause, I, I mean, design is subjective, you know.

00:17:09.858 –> 00:17:14.018
Like what someone thinks is beautiful, um, other people might not like it.

00:17:14.238 –> 00:17:15.578
Um, and I’ve experienced that as well.

00:17:15.618 –> 00:17:17.718
So yeah, I mean, you can’t please everyone.

00:17:18.420 –> 00:17:26.499
but that’s, that’s kinda how I approach it, is trying to think about what’s the most I can get out of this amount of space

00:17:27.499 –> 00:17:28.160
Matt Rogers: Sure, sure.

00:17:28.629 –> 00:17:32.309
I completely agree with what you say where you’re not gonna be able to please everybody.

00:17:32.970 –> 00:17:42.901
Um, but one of the things I think that you can always do to, you know, even if somebody isn’t always pleased, you know, collaborating and just talking through is always like one of the best things that you can do.

00:17:43.021 –> 00:17:57.143
Um, so from your process, what, what does that look like, um, when you’re talking about collaboration between yourself, the educators, construction teams, whoever that might yeah, where does that process tend to, tend to go on, on the projects you work on?

00:17:57.680 –> 00:17:57.860
Candice Leinneweber: Yeah.

00:17:58.104 –> 00:18:02.934
I kind of approach projects with the idea of, maximum transparency.

00:18:03.374 –> 00:18:05.294
I know that I don’t know everything.

00:18:05.584 –> 00:18:12.834
uh, but obviously we like to think that we know a lot, um, and I have learned lots over the years, um, but I have been in my zone.

00:18:13.041 –> 00:18:17.121
and yes, I have architecture and interior that kind of helps broaden that scope a little bit.

00:18:17.781 –> 00:18:22.501
Um, but contractors, I’m, I’m constantly asking them questions about, “Hey, we wanted this look.

00:18:22.561 –> 00:18:24.151
This is the product that we selected.

00:18:25.141 –> 00:18:27.741
Do we have an option that, like, hey, what’s the cost on this?

00:18:27.781 –> 00:18:39.021
Do we have an option to, to reduce cost but still get that look?” So we are constantly talking back and forth to make sure we get the look that we want, the, the feel that we want, the durability that we want, that’s still within the budget that we have.

00:18:39.641 –> 00:18:44.964
Uh, when it comes to, um, uh, owners, we wanna talk to them before we even get started.

00:18:45.024 –> 00:18:46.944
Like, “Hey, what’s your end goal?” You know?

00:18:47.044 –> 00:19:03.919
Like, “What, what, what do you wanna try to accomplish?” and I’ve always kind of approached it as well as I know they don’t know everything also, and so when I
get a response, “We want this thing right here,” I always wanna ask why, because maybe there’s a– something alternative that actually fits their goal better.

00:19:04.539 –> 00:19:10.737
Um, obviously it’s all in respect, like we’re not trying to tell them how to build their building, like what they want and what they don’t want.

00:19:11.297 –> 00:19:17.127
It’s just a matter of teasing out, understanding what it is they want, um, and why they’re selecting something.

00:19:17.363 –> 00:19:24.103
and if I don’t know, like, the best way to get about to that, I know I can ask consultants, I can ask, you know, my team members.

00:19:24.143 –> 00:19:26.223
And, and, and we do that too as well internally.

00:19:26.303 –> 00:19:34.583
Like, we’ll spend, you know, more time than probably we should just talking about one little thing and, and what it would look like or how it goes together in the field.

00:19:35.163 –> 00:19:38.943
Um, and of course, we kind of go in a circle until we get to the point where like we’re back to where we started.

00:19:39.423 –> 00:19:46.683
But at that point, it’s not wasted because we have exhausted all the, what is it, the 101 ways not to make a light bulb type thing.

00:19:46.843 –> 00:19:52.863
Like, we’ve basically eliminated all the, all the, the things that won’t work, um, to get to that one thing that, that does work.

00:19:53.982 –> 00:19:54.542
Matt Rogers: I love that.

00:19:54.682 –> 00:19:55.902
I love that philosophy too.

00:19:56.042 –> 00:19:56.343
Yeah.

00:19:56.422 –> 00:20:31.208
And, and I feel like when you, when you’re able to kind of go through that, it, it really shows that, you know, you’re ready to kind of embrace a more forward-thinking approach rather than just kind of like, “Yeah, this is the way it’s
always been done.” yeah, and that definitely leads me into, you know, my next question of, it sounds like you’re kind of digging into it a little bit, when you run into maybe some of those clients that maybe aren’t always, you know,
adaptive to, like, looking at the other possibilities, how, how do you kind of move the conversations from this is what we’ve always had to, um, this is what’s actually possible when you are trying to kind of break those barriers?

00:20:31.248 –> 00:20:36.668
Is there a certain tactic or certain things that you kind of see that work to overcoming that, that thought?

00:20:37.336 –> 00:20:42.136
Candice Leinneweber: Yeah, I, I really bring it down to trying to understand the why.

00:20:42.343 –> 00:20:47.283
if you can, if you can boil it down to what are you trying to accomplish?

00:20:47.611 –> 00:20:49.890
like I’ll, I’ll just give a really simple example.

00:20:50.408 –> 00:20:53.327
I, I worked with– And this was not a school project exactly.

00:20:53.347 –> 00:20:55.387
It was an, it was an art institute project.

00:20:55.867 –> 00:21:00.750
working with a client who didn’t, hadn’t had any experience with, with design, or, or building.

00:21:00.810 –> 00:21:02.790
So it was, it was a new process for them.

00:21:03.430 –> 00:21:11.146
Um, and they would say: “We want this exact thing.” this doesn’t really fit with the metaphor, but like, for example, they, they said they wanted a black sink.

00:21:11.787 –> 00:21:17.385
Um, and I knew what they were wanting, but I still asked the question, you know, “Do you need a softener?”

00:21:17.886 –> 00:21:19.905
Like, “What, do you have ha-hard water?” You know?

00:21:20.145 –> 00:21:26.965
‘Cause I’m really saying, like thinking through like, okay, if you have a black sink, you’re gonna get all those, you know, mineral deposits at the, at the base of it.

00:21:26.985 –> 00:21:30.625
And I knew from previous discussions that they didn’t want something that was hard to maintain.

00:21:30.786 –> 00:21:32.806
and so just really simple things like that.

00:21:33.347 –> 00:21:48.832
Um, or it could be, um, much larger discussions about, you know, the security of the building and like, where do you put extra doors with,
with key, um, card, card readers, um, to maintain security for your students, and just talking through the process and, and how they operate.

00:21:49.209 –> 00:21:51.309
and so it could, it could range like, really.

00:21:51.350 –> 00:21:56.969
Um, it’s really just comes down to understanding their why, uh, and then really trying to find the solution for that.

00:21:57.554 –> 00:21:58.155
Matt Rogers: That’s great.

00:21:58.254 –> 00:22:05.214
Um, and, and I, yeah, I love kind of just always working that backwards, that conversation backwards to finding that.

00:22:09.643 –> 00:22:14.373
You know, when we work with schools at K12, it’s not just about furniture or design, it’s about impact.

00:22:14.653 –> 00:22:18.743
Our radically student-centered approach puts students at the center of every decision.

00:22:19.123 –> 00:22:27.153
From that first conversation to the final walkthrough, we’re focused on creating spaces that actually work for the kids, the teachers, and the community.

00:22:27.473 –> 00:22:31.213
So if you’re looking to do more than just check a box on your next project, let’s talk.

00:22:31.533 –> 00:22:41.323
Visit k12.com, that’s K-A-Y-T-W-E-L-V-E.com, and see how we’re helping schools transform learning one student at a time.

00:22:41.823 –> 00:22:45.843
Because at K12, it’s not just about projects and furniture, it’s about purpose.

00:22:50.938 –> 00:22:59.909
Matt Rogers: I kinda wanna hear more about the work that you’re leading right now, um, some of the things that you’re, you’re working on, and, and really dig into, the trends that are happening in ed- educational design right now.

00:22:59.949 –> 00:23:09.263
Like what, what excites you most and what are you kinda seeing in the projects you’re working on currently, yeah, that, that you feel like is just exciting and, and, you know, um, great for our audience to kinda hear about?

00:23:09.758 –> 00:23:17.518
Candice Leinneweber: when we’re talking about school projects, um, I, I would say the, the biggest thing that keeps coming up on a brand-new project is security.

00:23:17.903 –> 00:23:52.296
and there’s, there’s a, a joke going around of like, we’re just, we’re just building prisons for kids because it’s, it’s so locked down and tight, to, to maintain security to where you
kind of lose some of that whimsical and, and fun and really trying to move the conversation away from, you know, just solid concrete walls and, and bars on windows and things like that,
and what can we do to a project that gives the, the, the security required, and the safety required for students, uh, but doesn’t feel like it, like it’s that, you know, prison essentially.

00:23:52.468 –> 00:23:56.308
I will say I’m, I’m currently– I think I mentioned this is before offline.

00:23:56.408 –> 00:24:09.774
Um, I’m currently going through the, the A4LE ALEP program, um, right now, and I will say something that really stood out to me in one of the first courses was, thinking about, how students use the space and how unique students are.

00:24:10.034 –> 00:24:18.010
and so I- I’m kind of pivoting a little bit from, from the first answer, but, really comes down to in my mind like how unique people are.

00:24:18.110 –> 00:24:20.193
And, I, I promise I will tie this back.

00:24:20.886 –> 00:24:27.099
my, my experience growing up, I was a, I was the quiet person, but I always had a lot going on in my head.

00:24:27.189 –> 00:24:31.819
and there was always– my brother, of course, was always the one going out and talking to people and, and doing things.

00:24:32.429 –> 00:24:39.229
Um, and so it’s very easy to kind of put people in boxes in terms of like, oh, the quiet people, they, they like math and they like, you know, reading.

00:24:39.489 –> 00:24:43.789
And, and I was quiet, but I was– I’m not really that much of a reader.

00:24:44.429 –> 00:24:45.659
Um, I, I listen to things.

00:24:45.789 –> 00:24:50.939
I watch, you know, shows and things like that, but I’m not– I consume information, not really a large reader.

00:24:50.949 –> 00:24:53.889
And I also– I mean, math’s not really one of my strong suits.

00:24:54.359 –> 00:25:30.187
And so that’s just kind of an, an example of saying like, “Hey, not everybody is what they appear.” Um, and so one of those courses that I took really kind of du- dove deep into the learning styles of
students multiple different ways that you can approach a learning, uh, And just trying to currently find a way to kind of mix that with, how do you make a space feel inviting as well as secure, and make
sure you have all these little aspects where students could maybe go find a nook where they feel like they can be alone, so to speak, um, or a quiet space, or have the space where students can be active.

00:25:30.217 –> 00:25:32.117
I know kids like to run around and jump around.

00:25:32.127 –> 00:25:34.687
I have a couple nephews that they’re just constantly moving.

00:25:34.803 –> 00:25:37.531
so giving them the environment that they can do that in.

00:25:37.652 –> 00:25:46.049
I’ve been able– I’ve actually been given– If I can pivot to what I’m working on right now, there’s a, a high school in Norman, Oklahoma, that we’re working on.

00:25:46.139 –> 00:25:47.279
It’s un- under construction.

00:25:47.704 –> 00:25:52.287
it’s a high school, so it’s, it’s not like you’re– we’re, we’re doing anything for young kids, obviously.

00:25:52.421 –> 00:25:57.281
but those two aspects we actually worked through, um, in that project.

00:25:57.401 –> 00:25:58.201
Um, it was really fun.

00:25:58.261 –> 00:26:04.581
We actually went and interviewed the students, um, of the, of the school, got their input, had them fill out surveys.

00:26:05.180 –> 00:26:15.786
and that was one thing that they brought up, like, “Hey, we’re, we’re worried about school security.” and so, the thing- things that we looked at in the school is, like, we wanted it to feel open, inviting, but also safe.

00:26:16.446 –> 00:26:21.326
Um, and so we obviously worked through making sure we had the cameras and the, and the locks and things like that.

00:26:21.780 –> 00:26:28.560
but we also wanted to have the ability for students to feel like there’s visibility between spaces.

00:26:28.660 –> 00:26:30.920
Um, and so we kind of went, like, in the halfway part.

00:26:30.980 –> 00:26:35.500
Like, we got some areas where they, they– if something does happen, they could hide.

00:26:35.940 –> 00:26:38.460
But, like, for the majority of the time, like, hey, it feels open and airy.

00:26:38.760 –> 00:26:44.760
Um, the fun thing about this project, it’s aviation themed, so it’s like a STEAM, STEM project.

00:26:45.340 –> 00:26:48.175
Um, and it’s, it’s, it’s called Oklahoma Aviation Academy.

00:26:48.327 –> 00:26:54.927
and what was great about that project is there was a lot of community support for it, um, and a lot of community backing.

00:26:54.967 –> 00:26:57.927
I think they’ve got some connections with Boeing and things like that as well.

00:26:58.627 –> 00:27:17.827
Um, and so it was really fun to see that community grassroots, essentially, aspect and build in and, and the connection with the local university as
well and their aviation program, um, and being able to create a space that essentially they’re gonna have tours walk through the, through the building.

00:27:18.167 –> 00:27:25.547
Um, and so we, we created a whole pathway where it’s like, it’s almost like there’s that neighborhood watch going on.

00:27:25.607 –> 00:27:27.787
Like, students can see things happening.

00:27:28.007 –> 00:27:35.526
Uh, there’s a large barrel-vaulted space where I’m hoping there’s gonna be activity constantly in that space, kind of classrooms flanking that space.

00:27:35.556 –> 00:27:38.447
And so we’ll obviously have sound separation and things like that.

00:27:38.527 –> 00:28:05.810
But that was a really fun project to think through all the aspects of how students are gonna use the space, all the technical aspects of, okay, we’re gonna have a, a room that needs all
these 3D printers and, you know, air compressors, and we’re gonna have a wind tunnel and, you know, all those things included, while still creating a space that a student can come to
and be like, “Oh, this is a fun little, you know, building, and I see all these graphics about aviation on the walls,” and, really help create student pride as well, uh, in the space.

00:28:07.209 –> 00:28:14.149
Matt Rogers: That was a perfect time for you to kind of bring, bring it all back together and talk through, um, yeah, that project right there that you’re working on.

00:28:14.189 –> 00:28:27.116
It really hits I mean, everything that we’ve talked about to this point, your, your design philosophy, the impact that you’re looking to
make, how you’re getting those, those folks involved of, of really making the right decisions, um, and then really talking about the process.

00:28:27.237 –> 00:28:30.056
So I, I appreciate you kind of bringing that in there.

00:28:30.596 –> 00:28:35.636
Um, I, I wanna ask too, I mean, you mentioned like student surveys specifically.

00:28:35.956 –> 00:28:43.761
Um, and I wanna kinda ask, as you’re kinda getting that feedback and you’re doing a lot of this work on the, the pre side, um, especially with this project right here,

00:28:44.011 –> 00:28:45.390
Oklahoma Aviation Academy.

00:28:45.907 –> 00:28:57.006
as you’re kind of working through your projects, I know this one’s still not complete- completed yet, but for some of the others, like what’s your process look like as far as like we’ve done all this research on the front end, right?

00:28:57.106 –> 00:29:01.706
And we know what, what we wanna kinda do to make sure we, we encompass all of that.

00:29:02.126 –> 00:29:06.086
What does it look like on the back end when, um, you know, your, a project’s finished?

00:29:06.447 –> 00:29:15.447
Like, do you all kind of do a lot of whatever it is, surveys or get, you know, collecting feedback on like, yes, this as like from the student’s perspective, yes, I do feel a lot safer.

00:29:15.486 –> 00:29:17.026
This, this was what I was looking for.

00:29:17.066 –> 00:29:20.724
I mean, what’s, what does that kind of look like in your approach, to the projects that you work on?

00:29:21.529 –> 00:29:31.890
Candice Leinneweber: we currently don’t do a ton of post-occupancy surveys on, on a lot of our projects, but that is something our firm is working on implementing, um, especially on projects like this one.

00:29:31.970 –> 00:29:41.389
Um, and there’s another project that I personally was not involved in, but, um, it was an elementary school in Mustang, Oklahoma, where it was also, you know, related to security.

00:29:41.969 –> 00:29:52.069
Um, and there were, there were a lot of things that they did, they implemented on that project that where they were able to get, you know, the security aspects into the project within a reasonable budget number.

00:29:52.169 –> 00:29:56.004
Like, we’re not putting in bulletproof glass, we’re doing these other things instead, you know, things like that.

00:29:56.275 –> 00:29:58.714
we’re currently in the process of developing what that looks like.

00:29:58.775 –> 00:30:08.554
Uh, we are definitely interested in knowing, you know, all these thing– design moves that we made, like, as we’re learning this information, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s something that’s been moving fast.

00:30:08.935 –> 00:30:14.934
And so it’s just the projects have to catch up with, with the design philosophy, um, that we’ve developed.

00:30:15.374 –> 00:30:19.834
And so that’s definitely something that we’re gonna be working towards and, and knowing and, and, and researching too.

00:30:19.854 –> 00:30:30.834
Like, I’m in the process of researching what other people have done, you know, to see like, “Hey, what have, what have you done on
these projects? I’m not doing this in a bubble.” Like, other people across the country maybe have different ideas I haven’t thought of.

00:30:30.974 –> 00:30:34.174
Um, and of course that could be different based on the loca-locale as well.

00:30:34.499 –> 00:30:36.340
that’s definitely something that we’re currently developing.

00:30:37.017 –> 00:30:45.747
Matt Rogers: so one of the things I always like to ask in, in any interviews that we kind of lead and, um, hearing some of the amazing work that you’re, you’re working on right now.

00:30:46.128 –> 00:30:49.228
20 years from now, right, we’re looking back at some of the work that you’re doing.

00:30:50.088 –> 00:30:59.368
What decisions would, would be made or, or what things would you be looking for in 20 years to kind of say, you know, “This w- this was a su- a success.

00:30:59.388 –> 00:31:07.112
You know, the design process that we went through, it, it mattered.” You know, what, what are those things that you look for to say that was a huge success 20 years down the road?

00:31:07.152 –> 00:31:10.392
What, what are things that you think you’ll be looking for?

00:31:10.629 –> 00:31:18.093
Candice Leinneweber: uh, just on the surface, did that material I picked, did it last 20 years like they said it would or, or is it falling off the building?

00:31:18.163 –> 00:31:20.063
Like that, that would be, you know, just on the surface.

00:31:20.663 –> 00:31:36.583
but like more in depth thinking about the project as a whole and, and, and whether or not it was successful from a s- a space planning perspective
or, um, the usability of it is I would wanna walk into– Just thinking specifically about Oklahoma Aviation, just since we’ve been talking about it.

00:31:37.163 –> 00:31:43.703
Um, if I were to walk into that space, I would hope to see the spaces that were designed for, for multiple activities.

00:31:44.363 –> 00:31:47.823
I would love to come in multiple times and see a different thing happening in, in that space.

00:31:48.283 –> 00:31:57.325
So like for example, we have, a, a space that was initially a gym that just turned into a kind of a multipurpose room where they could do assemblies and they could do drone flying and they could do all these things.

00:31:57.345 –> 00:31:59.935
And they have a great huge, you know, barrel vault over it.

00:32:00.526 –> 00:32:01.566
really tall space.

00:32:02.266 –> 00:32:03.706
Um, a lot of opportunities.

00:32:03.786 –> 00:32:13.846
Um, I would love to, to walk in there and see them doing egg drops off the, the balcony or, or seeing drones flying around, um, or seeing them do esports, you know, uh, in there as well.

00:32:13.906 –> 00:32:16.466
Like just, you know, different activities happening.

00:32:16.728 –> 00:32:25.048
we had, uh, a kind of a unique feature like I know like learning stairs is all the rage, you know, in some cases, uh, uh, relatively recently.

00:32:25.068 –> 00:32:35.868
So we, we do have one of those, um, but we kind of put another spin on it because, um, one aspect that tends to be overlooked in my opinion is the acoustics of it.

00:32:35.968 –> 00:32:39.828
Um, and that was gonna be our landing zone for people coming in to do a tour.

00:32:40.368 –> 00:32:46.168
And so we, we provided a stair obviously and then some seating on that, um, for the learning aspect.

00:32:46.748 –> 00:32:51.948
Uh, but then we kinda created a kind of fun element over the top of it to kind of box in that sound.

00:32:52.288 –> 00:32:57.488
and then added some cool graphics on the windows to kind of show things in space and, and things like that.

00:32:58.048 –> 00:33:04.425
Um, but also a screen and some acoustics in terms of like, uh, AVL, audio, you know, speakers and things like that.

00:33:04.845 –> 00:33:22.225
And so I would love to walk in the space and just see a pickup class just happening on those stairs, you know, where they have as– The, the teacher can plug in their computer and throw it up
on the screen and the students can do a, a quick course or, or maybe it’s a study group for kids who are in a group and they’re doing a project for another class as a homework, uh, assignment.

00:33:22.785 –> 00:33:26.485
Um, as well as, you know, people coming in and, and having a tour.

00:33:26.935 –> 00:33:33.125
Um, so I would just, I would just love to see all the specialty elements that we put in there actually be utilized.

00:33:33.185 –> 00:33:42.865
If they’re not, then obviously there’s something that we didn’t design correctly, um, because we, we designed it in a– we hoped to design it in a way to where it would be easily accessible.

00:33:42.925 –> 00:33:47.334
Anybody can sit down and utilize the space, for whatever they’re trying to do.

00:33:47.454 –> 00:33:52.634
Um, and then we have multiple different areas of course, uh, where they could, you know, do more specialty things.

00:33:52.734 –> 00:33:56.224
Um, but that would be successful for me is, is to see those spaces being utilized.

00:33:56.969 –> 00:34:04.909
Matt Rogers: Yeah, and I love that to hear that you’re– it, it sounds like you all are very strategic and, and when you’re looking at those things too, looking, um, far in advance.

00:34:05.629 –> 00:34:14.486
On the other end of the spectrum, obviously as you continue to grow in your career, how are you thinking about balancing, you know, innovation with responsibility as well?

00:34:14.527 –> 00:34:26.527
So there’s the other side of things where there are the trends that, that really, you know, tend to kind– you know, come to light, but maybe they’re not always necessarily what’s best for, you know, looking at the future and what’s sustainable long term.

00:34:26.566 –> 00:34:41.808
So, from your perspective, when you’re designing spaces that, that shape communities and students’ experiences, what are you looking for to
really, you know, showcase that, you know, this trend i- is, is the right way to go for, for a project, um, before just kind of jumping into it?

00:34:42.372 –> 00:34:42.552
Candice Leinneweber: Yeah.

00:34:42.793 –> 00:34:46.434
That, that’s a, that’s a challenging thing, um, for sure.

00:34:46.570 –> 00:34:54.431
I, I’ve always really thought about that on my projects in terms of I, I don’t wanna design something that’s only gonna be good for a couple years.

00:34:54.770 –> 00:35:03.350
Um, I’m really thinking– I’m really hoping that anything that’s put in can be utilized for that 20, 30, 50 years, however length of that building.

00:35:03.848 –> 00:35:07.248
of course, that’s always hard when it comes to design because design is trends.

00:35:07.828 –> 00:35:11.969
Um, and I’ve, I’ve asked this question to people like, like what is, you know, timeless design?

00:35:12.049 –> 00:35:13.909
Is there such a thing as timeless design?

00:35:14.468 –> 00:35:22.021
Um, and obviously when you’re talking about function, there’s, there’s one answer, and if you’re talking about like the aesthetics and the looks of the building, there’s another, response to that.

00:35:22.171 –> 00:35:28.291
so it’s, it’s, it’s a difficult thing, um, and always thinking about like what is a future– what is the future of learning as well.

00:35:28.771 –> 00:35:39.071
Um, as I mentioned, I, I used to teach, um, some courses at the college level, and so I’ve, I have a little background in terms of like creating curriculums and things like that, and I know that that all changes too.

00:35:39.811 –> 00:35:55.395
kind of where I’ve landed personally is how can I make this space as flexible as possible, so that it can be picked up and rearranged, adjusted, or just change out these few things, um, as needed to where it just completely changes the use of that space.

00:35:55.774 –> 00:35:57.654
Classrooms are easy, you know, there’s just a room.

00:35:57.935 –> 00:36:13.808
When we’re talking about those multi-pur-purpose spaces, um, you know, the specialty spaces, like the learning stair that I trying to design it in
a, in a way that you can, as things change, maybe your curriculum changes, um, but that space can still be utilized, and just adjusted in small ways.

00:36:14.202 –> 00:36:14.642
Matt Rogers: I love it.

00:36:15.066 –> 00:36:20.466
So Candace, yeah, we, we always like to ask our guests, um, what does radically student-centered mean to you?

00:36:20.526 –> 00:36:30.107
And again, with the award that y- you’ve been given here and, and recognized with for Ed Market, um, obviously this is probably something you’ve had in the back of your mind through all the projects that you worked on.

00:36:30.166 –> 00:36:35.278
So I wanna ask you, what does radically student-centered mean to you at the core, when you think about that phrase?

00:36:36.235 –> 00:36:36.415
Candice Leinneweber: Yeah.

00:36:37.065 –> 00:36:42.755
I– as far as being radical about something, I always think of, like, what’s gonna upset the, the basket, you know?

00:36:42.910 –> 00:36:50.430
and, and it really comes down to, in my mind, uh, kind of what I mentioned before of really trying to cater to all, to all unique students.

00:36:50.660 –> 00:37:00.120
and how do you find a way to create a space or even a lesson plan, um, that can cater to as many of those different students as possible?

00:37:00.845 –> 00:37:07.808
it’s not gonna, be something that, uh, you can achieve every time ’cause there are so much, you know, variety of, of, of unique people.

00:37:08.448 –> 00:37:11.408
Um, and you know, of course, you’re never gonna plur- please everyone.

00:37:11.986 –> 00:37:25.126
but I always try to approach things, whether that’s, um, a design aspect or, or the mentorship program that we’re doing in our firm, of always trying to meet that student, whoever that student is, where they are.

00:37:25.846 –> 00:37:26.286
Matt Rogers: I love it.

00:37:26.482 –> 00:37:27.602
Well, for, for our audience,

00:37:27.702 –> 00:37:33.580
i’m you can already see why, why Candace was a great candidate for, for this, uh, Next Gen Award.

00:37:33.680 –> 00:37:41.540
Um, I wanna kinda close, you know, this together here by asking something that, again, I love to kinda wrap up, um, our podcast with.

00:37:41.991 –> 00:37:46.991
I guess, yeah, Candace, is there anything that I missed that you wanted to talk about today, um, with our listeners?

00:37:47.031 –> 00:37:51.191
Is there any final thoughts, any final words that you would like to leave our audience with today?

00:37:52.307 –> 00:38:09.108
Candice Leinneweber: I, I would just say, um, something that has been kind of my North Star, whether I knew it or not, kind of going through this process of
becoming licensed and finding my way through architecture, has always been– I’ve always had that kind of loose goal of, I wanna be in this area over here.

00:38:09.287 –> 00:38:11.268
And so in that, in my mind, that was an architect.

00:38:11.307 –> 00:38:12.700
I didn’t know what that meant at the time.

00:38:12.761 –> 00:38:16.880
and that’s just kinda helped me basically, what do I pursue?

00:38:16.960 –> 00:38:18.055
What do I don’t pursue?

00:38:18.210 –> 00:38:21.910
and, and I apply that as well to architecture, um, on a, on a project.

00:38:22.508 –> 00:38:24.989
you kinda know loosely the ultimate goal of a project.

00:38:25.068 –> 00:38:26.428
You wanna have a, a safe building.

00:38:26.449 –> 00:38:28.088
You wanna have a fun building.

00:38:28.168 –> 00:38:37.088
Um, and as you kind of go down the rabbit holes of, of, of projects, you know, the, the maintenance guys is, is getting hung up on the type of light fixture you’re selecting and things like that.

00:38:37.651 –> 00:38:44.071
it’s really just trying to make sure that we spend time zooming out and saying, “Okay, we have four different options here.

00:38:44.651 –> 00:38:58.291
Which one is getting us closer to that end goal?” Um, and so that’s kind of been my philosophy and kind of what I would, would impart
and, and I find useful for people, um, in general is, is to make sure we don’t lose tr-track of the, the broader goal in things.

00:38:58.311 –> 00:39:03.352
And there’s always gonna be those little minutiae things that kinda veer us off track.

00:39:03.451 –> 00:39:08.006
Um, but that overarching goal can really kind of bring everyone to, to that focus point.

00:39:09.162 –> 00:39:09.322
Matt Rogers: Yeah.

00:39:09.363 –> 00:39:10.282
Thank you for saying that.

00:39:10.342 –> 00:39:12.702
And I, I do actually want to ask one more.

00:39:12.803 –> 00:39:21.406
I know I said that that was gonna be the last one, but, also on the other end, I wanna kinda see if you would leave us with some departing words for, for those to kinda tie this back together.

00:39:21.426 –> 00:39:32.906
For those that, um, you know, again, this is for next gen, um, those that are really, you know, gonna be leading the next generation of educational design, those that are kind of on the edge or thinking about getting into educational design.

00:39:33.426 –> 00:39:39.166
Um, you know, as you kinda said too, like, you know, you kind of had like some of the questioning of, is this where I wanna be?

00:39:39.266 –> 00:39:45.006
Like, what, what final words would you give to those that are still kind of thinking through, like, is this what I wanna do?

00:39:45.387 –> 00:39:48.226
What are the final words that you would offer to them as they’re thinking through that?

00:39:48.799 –> 00:40:03.579
Candice Leinneweber: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a very good question because, uh, I did go through a period where I was constantly questioning, “Am I on the right path?
Um, is this really something I’m gonna enjoy? I’m putting a lot of time and effort into this.” Um, and I will say education design was not at the top of my list.

00:40:03.859 –> 00:40:08.119
Um, I, I just wasn’t aware of it, you know, as going, going through architecture school.

00:40:08.844 –> 00:40:12.864
on the surface it can seem like a very narrow field, like I don’t wanna specialize on something.

00:40:12.964 –> 00:40:14.104
Like I, I want a broad field.

00:40:14.214 –> 00:40:30.389
but when it comes to education, um, in my experience, uh, my, my horizons have been broadened to the point where like there’s a lot of really fun things you can do in education design, um, that people don’t think that necessarily are available.

00:40:30.489 –> 00:40:35.709
Um, it’s like, “Oh, well, I’d rather do something over here where I can spend more money,” because there’s always the budget, right?

00:40:36.243 –> 00:40:48.317
and so just realizing the breadth of what can be done and, and, and the amount of people that you can affect within that, um, has really been something that I’ve been, been learning in the last few years.

00:40:48.438 –> 00:40:57.358
Um, and, and I would just say to, to anybody just kind of on the brink of, of wondering if this is their path in, in education design, um, I would say give it a chance.

00:40:57.478 –> 00:41:00.908
Um, I’ve always kind of had that philosophy as well as like try something.

00:41:00.958 –> 00:41:06.148
If you’re not sure, try it, and if it doesn’t feel right, drop it, um, and then move on to the next thing.

00:41:06.618 –> 00:41:12.512
And there’s been a few things that I have dropped, and then there’s been quite a few more things that I’ve tried and, and been surprised.

00:41:12.709 –> 00:41:14.249
teaching is one example of that.

00:41:14.449 –> 00:41:25.299
Um, that, that’s really led into a lot of other things for me as well, just in my firm and mentorships in the firm and, and, and building relationships with K-12, you know, AIA committee.

00:41:25.789 –> 00:41:34.011
So there’s been a lot of things like I am– if I were to look ahead 10 years, 10 years I would’ve be surprised by where I’m at today.

00:41:34.031 –> 00:41:38.871
But I don’t regret any of it just because I tried it and I, I r- was surprised that I enjoyed it.

00:41:38.951 –> 00:41:41.571
Um, so I would, I would recommend at least giving it a shot.

00:41:42.634 –> 00:41:43.035
Matt Rogers: I love it.

00:41:43.095 –> 00:41:43.374
Yeah.

00:41:43.594 –> 00:41:48.254
Um, and, and I would definitely echo that in, in my experiences too, is, is try it.

00:41:48.654 –> 00:41:49.274
You’ll never know.

00:41:49.334 –> 00:41:54.514
And, and I always try to live with, you know, no regrets and, and I feel like that’s, that’s the way to do that.

00:41:54.614 –> 00:41:55.090
So, yeah.

00:41:55.189 –> 00:41:56.849
Thank you so much, Candice, for joining us.

00:41:56.929 –> 00:42:01.610
For our listeners, um, betterlearningpodcast.com is where you can find more about us.

00:42:01.798 –> 00:42:03.058
give us a follow on social media.

00:42:03.159 –> 00:42:06.758
We’re on all platforms, TikTok, YouTube, uh, Instagram, Facebook.

00:42:06.798 –> 00:42:07.738
So we’re all on there.

00:42:08.058 –> 00:42:09.518
Give us a follow, give us a like.

00:42:09.737 –> 00:42:12.917
Candice, I am super glad we got to feature you on the podcast.

00:42:13.077 –> 00:42:17.877
Glad to– that we got to hear some of the things that you’re working on and just the process that you go through.

00:42:18.317 –> 00:42:20.277
Um, really appreciate you, you being on the show.

00:42:21.225 –> 00:42:21.565
Candice Leinneweber: Thank you.

00:42:21.625 –> 00:42:22.585
I very much appreciate it

00:42:24.528 –> 00:42:28.948
The Better Learning Podcast is produced by Matt Rogers and edited by Kelly Jones.

00:42:29.658 –> 00:42:39.058
The views and opinions shared on this podcast are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily represent the perspectives of their affiliated companies, organizations, or associations