Read Transcript:

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Jessica Westerduin: Welcome back to the “Better Learning Podcast.” My name is Jessica Westernoon, and I’m your host.

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Today, I’m joined by Amanda, an architectural design at Mosaic Architects.

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Amanda brings over 12 years of experience and has been leading impactful work around the K to 12 educational communities.

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In today’s conversation, we’ll explore Amanda’s leadership journey, how she personally defines radically student-centered, and we’ll dive into the Saratoga Springs District project.

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So welcome, Amanda.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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If you could just give us your background and your journey to where you are today.

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Amanda Vottis: Thank you for having me.

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It’s so great to be here today.

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So my journey here is a little bit interesting.

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Um, I started working, you know, in general when I was 14, and it was because I wanted to travel to Australia and New Zealand.

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Uh, my dad had studied abroad when he was in high school, and I had gotten a letter from People to People Student Ambassadors when I was in middle school, and it was this fabulous trip going with them as a student ambassador to Australia and New Zealand.

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My parents were like, “You’re not that old to be leaving the country

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yet, but if you ever get the opportunity again, we’ll see if we can make it work.” So two years later, after ninth grade, got the letter again and decided to go for it.

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And I thought, “You know, not that cheap, and so you’re gonna have to contribute.”

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So I started working at McDonald’s and worked there all through high school so that I could travel, and it was probably one of the most
fabulous decisions that I’ve ever made, um, getting to see the world and then getting opportunities throughout high school to go other places.

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One of our history teachers had an England travel program, so I was able to go on that twice, uh, to England and Scotland, England and, uh, Ireland.

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And then just through those experiences, I think it gave me that appreciation of the world and architectural styles.

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Uh, I did a German exchange program.

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So we hosted an exchange student for two weeks and then went to Germany for two weeks and got to go to school there, which was vastly different than going to school here.

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They left for lunch.

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They had an open campus.

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I was like, “What is happening? They don’t let me leave school. I have to wait to be a senior to do that.” Um, so I think going into college, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do.

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Um, I was fortunate enough to be fairly good at school and– but I loved travel.

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I knew I loved that.

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I loved art, and my mom was like, “What about architecture?” I was like, “Okay, that, that seems, that seems fine.

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I’ll give it a try.” so I went to Virginia Tech, did my undergrad in architecture, you know, Bachelor of Architecture, and a couple years
in, I was at a family friend’s party and they’re like, “Oh, my cousins are in architecture, so,” and they’re like, “I’ll introduce you.”

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And I’m talking to them.

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I was like, “Oh, what do you guys do?” They’re like, “Oh, we do design schools.” I was like, “That sounds kind of boring.” I’m like, “It’s not, we promise.”

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Jessica Westerduin: Mm-hmm.

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Amanda Vottis: “Okay.” And so fast-forward to graduating during a recession and not a lot of jobs around.

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Don’t I see a job posting for the same firm that they worked at?

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I was like, “All right, I’ll reach out. I will see what it’s about.” And I ended up talking to them, finding out more about what it meant to design a school, and ended up working for Mosaic, and that’s how I started at Mosaic.

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So it was kind of roundabout into getting into schools.

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I wasn’t really sure what I was getting into, but now that I’ve been here and I’ve been working in the industry for 12 years, I absolutely love it.

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You know, every day is different.

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Every community is unique.

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You know, hearing about the student successes and the impacts that you’re having on student learning as you’re creating these new spaces, you know, a small renovation or a big renovation is just incredible

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Jessica Westerduin: Wow.

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Um, caveat to the reader or to the listeners that I do– me and Amanda know each other, but I did not know that extensive traveling background.

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When you think of design now, do you think of those experiences and the buildings that you went to when you were in all of those different countries?

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Like, do you bring that into your current design process?

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Amanda Vottis: I do think about them.

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I think, I think about how each place is unique,

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and you can see that through their architecture, and you can learn about a community through their buildings.

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And when you design, you can make that connection.

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You can find what is unique about that place and let that shine through and emphasize that, and really help support that community

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Jessica Westerduin: Yeah, absolutely.

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That was a beautifully, beautifully said as well.

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So I really appreciate that.

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That’s a, a very awesome background to bring in, um, with you as well.

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When you think of– ’cause I’m gonna go back to this, this idea, right, of, of boring in schools, because I totally, completely understand.

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I come from education.

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I come from an educator, and I’ve heard that so many times.

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And so I wanna h- pause that for a second and talk about radically student-centered and how we bring the students, you know, into our vision, into our design process, and how you particularly do that.

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Um, and we’ll get back to kind of the comparisons of what school experiences are.

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But talk to me about your own words, like how do you, are– you bring in your student voice and, and what do you think of when we say radically student-centered, um, design?

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Amanda Vottis: I think recognizing that each student is an individual, and no matter how similar people may be, they don’t learn the same.

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Me and my sister are freakishly similar.

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A lot of you hear us laugh, we’re the same person, but we do not learn at all the same.

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We have very different learning styles and both very smart in different ways, and we come about things differently.

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So extending that to a whole school of people and thinking about each student and their needs and how do you help them be successful, how do you support them, and then how do you give teachers tools that allow that to happen?

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You know, teachers are incredible.

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They have classes of, you know, maybe 20 to 30 kids when they’re in elementary school, and these are kids who are just starting out, just
figuring out how to learn and finding that connection with each one to make them want to learn and to help them on their path forward.

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Then when you get to high school, high school teachers have, you know, may- if you have block periods, maybe you have four or five periods of day of 30 students.

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If you have, you know, if you don’t have block periods, you have nine periods a day, and you have so many different people that you have to find a connection with and find a way to impart that knowledge and help them learn.

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And so I think when you start thinking about the student as an individual and thinking about their learning styles and how do you incorporate their voice in design, you know, if you can get students in the design process, that’s amazing.

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If you can get teachers who are, you know, the advocates for the students in the design process, that typically happens.

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Students are a little bit harder.

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Um, and the times that we do get students sometimes, you know, you often get the ones who want to be in school.

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And I would love to have a project where it’s like, “Give me your students who are in, you know, in school, who don’t wanna be there, who are, who are not successful,” ’cause they are the ones who need, who need the advocacy.

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They need a space for them.

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They haven’t found it in what you have yet.

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The other ones are making it through.

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They’re finding their space.

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But you gotta find, find the ones who don’t have that connection yet and find out what that piece is that’s missing.

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Jessica Westerduin: Right.

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Absolutely.

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To make everyone feel a sense of belonging, and especially knowing what we know about, you know, just humans, not even just education.

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Every human not only learns different, but they have motivations in different ways.

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They’re engaged in different ways, right?

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It’s not just, you know, “Oh, I’m a visual learner,” or, “I’m a textual learner.”

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Like, there are so many different, insert points, right, on that spectrum.

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And I do know a little bit about your background.

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I believe that you were a coach before, correct?

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Did you coach ever field hockey or you just played it?

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Because talk to me about how maybe even unbiasedly you kind of bring that into that student voice and choice and thinking about you as a coach and how to– how you had to get to every s- every, you know, player.

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Although they were there to play the game, not everyone was there to play at the same level.

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Amanda Vottis: Yeah, so I did coach for about eight years.

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Um, coached JV.

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I was assistant varsity coach, and I worked with a fabulous head coach who worked in a school, and her school was kind of the school that kids go to when they’re not succeeding in typical public school.

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So a very challenging environment.

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And one of the great things that she did was she would come in, she would talk to the girls before every practice and ask them about their day
and find out about their challenges, and then she would talk about her day and some of the challenges that students were facing in her school.

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And they started to get a perspective on, “Okay, my day wasn’t good in my world, but there are other things out there that could be worse.” And being, kind of being
there for these kids and helping them through their process, it was… You know, everyone, even in coaching, has a different style for how they get information.

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You know, I could tell them a drill and some would look at me and be like, “I have no idea what you want me to do.” And others would be like, “Okay, I got this.” Then you show them what they’re supposed to do.

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They’re like, “Okay, I got it.” And then others would still be standing there like, “Still not quite sure.”

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And eventually, as you walk them through it and, and they learn by doing, now they’re catching on.

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So you could see those learning styles coming through even in coaching.

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it was really interesting and the– I was actually coaching at the school I went to and working there for, for Mosaic as their architect.

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And so I would walk, I’d walk through the building during the day to do some work, and my girls would be like, “Coach, what are you doing here?” And my old teachers would be like, “What are you doing here?”

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And, and then I would, you know, be like, “I’m here for work.” Like, “I’ll see you guys later at practice.” And then they hand me the keys to the building, which is a very cool experience when it’s the

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school you went to.

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I’m like, “Are you, are you sure I can have these? I can just go anywhere.” They’re

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Are you sure?”

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Jessica Westerduin: Right?

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You’re gonna go into all those unopened closets that you, like, were curious about as a kid.

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Like, is this really the custodian closet?

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Amanda Vottis: Yeah, walking around on the roof still thinking I’m gonna get in trouble ’cause I’m not allowed to do that,

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Jessica Westerduin: Right,

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Amanda Vottis: sitting in meetings with teachers that I had renovating classrooms that still looked exactly the same when I was there.

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Jessica Westerduin: Yeah

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Amanda Vottis: And and it’d be like, “Oh, Mr. Smith,” or whoever it was.

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They’re like, “You can call me…”

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I was like, “I can’t.

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I can’t call you by your first name.

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It feels so wrong.

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It’s ingrained deep in me

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that you are my teacher,” and yes.

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Jessica Westerduin: Absolutely.

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Oh my God.

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I, I love that experience because just the way you describe that team in front of you is a typical classroom, right?

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The, the, the stuff is the same.

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What you’re teaching them is the same, but the kids’ access points are so different.

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Um, I, I love that you, you really brought that in, and I think that it also makes you such a well-rounded leader when it comes to school design, which I do wanna get into now, the Saratoga, um, the Saratoga Springs School District.

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Um, so one of Mosaic’s, uh, you know, core belief is, uh, about shaping buildings that reflect the communities that they serve.

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Um, so talk to me about how community shows up in the design plans, but a little bit about this longevity, right?

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‘Cause this project has been years and years, and how you continue to keep the educational goals in the forefront and, and keep that engagement and momentum.

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Um, talk to us a little bit about, you know, about this project.

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Amanda Vottis: I love this project because when it kicked off, they were doing an educational plan, and I was going through the A4LE Academy.

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And so I got to sit through their sessions with their teachers and their students and their community members.

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And so as I’m learning how to be an educational planner, I’m getting to see it in action, um, by an A4LE member who is, you know, very well known in the field for planning.

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And it was really the first time that I got to see an educational plan in the works because in New York they’re not required and they’re not common.

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So the district had the forethought.

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They knew that they had some money becoming available, that they would be able to do a large project without in- adding additional taxes.

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And so they started a process to really define their mission, define their vision.

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They did community summits.

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They did surveys.

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They engaged parents and teachers and faculty and staff and really brought everyone to the table, you know, creating days where, you know, they paid for subs to be in the classroom so these teachers could come and
participate in these sessions to hear the voices and to not only hear the feedback about What their existing buildings were lacking or what they were successful in, but also to show them what the potential was.

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I think often, you know, you get into that mode where you don’t know what you don’t know.

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And in New York, there’s not a t- you know, we don’t have another… a ton of new buildings.

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We have a lot of renovations.

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And so unless you have a school that’s recently gone through a big renovation, you may not have an example of a breakout space that’s being successfully used.

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You know, we don’t have an example of a learning stair, um, that’s not higher ed.

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And so to really bring in the sources from across the country and to inspire people to think about what they, what they need, what they want, what they
wish, and then taking all of that information, distilling it down into their educational plan, and then they really use that as a guidepost going forward.

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You know, they call it their legacy project, and they set it up where every building is touched, every building is getting something, and it all directly relates back to their educational plan.

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They had, um… We did building condition surveys.

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We did a lot of s- um, structural surveys and, you know, just kind of existing condition surveys for things that they definitely needed for their infrastructure, and that came into play.

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And then they broke it down into buckets.

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They went back to the community.

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They made a committee, and they reviewed all of this information.

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They did more building tours, and they looked back and they looked– and they made buckets for, you know, what is, what is needed for our buildings, what is needed educationally, and what is needed for safety and security.

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And then each school got a small piece to address things throughout their building, and those projects have been continuing.

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That started in 2018, and so we’re finishing up the last phases of design for that referendum.

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And then we started a second referendum that still builds on that.

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So looking back at that educational plan and then bringing the community in again, like, “Is it working?

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These are the things that we’re doing,” and hearing the feedback that’s come from the renovations so far.

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Jessica Westerduin: Yeah, absolutely.

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I love that, that idea of alignment and revisited alignment, which I think, you know, we’re talking about these big projects and, and I love that you brought up that, you know, when we, when we’re in a territory that isn’t,
you know, building maybe new buildings and we do have to do renovations, um, how do we expose to these new ideas and these new progressive, you know, breakout rooms like you said, or common areas or, you know, the staircases?

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Um, it, it brings up a really, really great point for this project where there was alignment.

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That’s what it started with.

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You started with, I, I love, um, you said guideposts, which I love.

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Um, I’m a big artifact kind of guiding light girl, and to have those principles that it means that there’s no missed opportunities.

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You know, when we work with schools at K12, it’s not just about furniture or design, it’s about impact.

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Our radically student-centered approach puts students at the center of every decision.

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From that first conversation to the final walkthrough, we’re focused on creating spaces that actually work for the kids, the teachers, and the community.

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So if you’re looking to do more than just check a box on your next project, let’s talk.

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Visit k12.com, that’s K-A-Y-T-W-E-L-V-E.com, and see how we’re helping schools transform learning one student at a time.

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Because at K12, it’s not just about projects and furniture, it’s about purpose.

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Jessica Westerduin: I wanna, you know, bring us back to your idea of this big sky thinking and this idea that we can kind of put this, you know, these hats on of let’s think big, let’s dream, right?

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Let’s bring what would your ideal be?

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And instead of continuously scaling it back, let’s build to that dream, right?

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Let’s make it happen in front of our students.

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And I feel like sometimes we don’t know what we don’t know.

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So there are designs and beautiful buildings that people either don’t get to see, they’re not exposed to, or, you know, they’re, they’re thinking we need to be practical, um, and not so big, you know, big idea or this like, you know, dream big type idea.

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when you get to projects where you maybe have those conflicting or someone kind of saying, “Oh, we can’t do that,” or like the, you know, we– it’s not possible.

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How do you kind of either combat that or try to get them to see kind of the bigger picture?

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Amanda Vottis: I think with Saratoga particularly because they had the educational plan, one of the great things that we were able to do is to look at their educational goals and b- and say, you know, “We are gonna build
a learning stair for you in your, you know, at your main entrance on display where you want it. We’re building this smaller eating area across from it for your students who don’t feel comfortable in your cafeteria.”

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And, you know, there’s a joke with the district that it’s a stairs, stair to nowhere.

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Like, “No, it goes, goes to the second floor, we promise.” there is a lot of nervousness.

00:18:37.592 –> 00:18:39.082
Like, “We’ve never had this.

00:18:39.082 –> 00:18:40.262
We’ve never used it.

00:18:40.282 –> 00:19:12.082
How do we integrate it in our curriculum?” But then we go back and we look at those original meetings with the teachers and what the students were saying and what they were saying in the
videos, and we look at the pictures that they drew of what they wished for their building and look at the, you know, the big piece that we’re doing now is the educational piece, so we’re doing
a lot of classroom renovations and bringing in the breakout spaces and the learning stairs, and you can see the alignment between exactly what they were wishing for and what is being built.

00:19:12.352 –> 00:19:34.862
it’s a renovation, so it’s not necessarily all the same configuration, but they talked about wanting this central hub of community at their main entrance, this area for
social-emotional learning, the ability to, you know, have kids work in groups and build independence and get them ready to go on to college and having them build those social skills.

00:19:35.192 –> 00:19:39.255
And a lot of the spaces that we are building in this project are for that.

00:19:39.345 –> 00:19:44.315
You know, we’re building informal student spaces that they don’t have anywhere.

00:19:44.877 –> 00:19:48.597
So having the conversations are tough along the way.

00:19:49.037 –> 00:19:54.447
It’s, it’s l- looking at a lot of inspirational images and saying, “Hey, these are models.

00:19:54.517 –> 00:19:57.977
They’re used across the country.” And it’s not just schools.

00:19:58.677 –> 00:20:03.477
It’s made it its way down into schools, but it’s come from industry.

00:20:03.517 –> 00:20:04.827
It’s in college.

00:20:05.047 –> 00:20:10.647
It’s coming into schools because that’s what they’re gonna see– the kids are gonna see when they come out.

00:20:11.217 –> 00:20:13.427
Those are the environments that they’re gonna work in.

00:20:13.437 –> 00:20:16.327
Those are the ones that they’re gonna need to learn how to thrive in.

00:20:16.797 –> 00:20:29.307
So if you can build it when they’re young and teach them that independent learning and teach them how to interact, they will have those skills to be successful as they move forward, which is ultimately what everybody is looking for

00:20:29.731 –> 00:20:30.881
Jessica Westerduin: Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:30.881 –> 00:20:47.404
It’s just better preparedness for what they’re going to, and that’s such a great example of we, we have to think at the end of the spectrum and kind of plan backwards
because what I love about Saratoga, uh, Spring School District that we didn’t actually, you know, talk about is it’s elementary, it’s middles, it’s high schools.

00:20:47.764 –> 00:21:02.674
So while these students as young as kindergarten are going through this experience in this school district, each building has this new engagement, invigorating kind of design that they get to engage with, and that comes with that educational vision, right?

00:21:02.674 –> 00:21:08.554
It’s not just what’s here and now, but you really took the time with the team to think about from 2018 to, you know, 2030,

00:21:11.474 –> 00:21:16.384
you know, whatever it might be, um, that type of, uh, commitment, right?

00:21:16.424 –> 00:21:22.104
And the revisiting with the community and because you’re doing exactly what you’re saying, right?

00:21:22.104 –> 00:21:29.394
You’re telling the community, “These are the things we’re building and this is what we’re hoping to get out of it.” And then going back and, and showing like, “This is exactly what we did.

00:21:29.394 –> 00:21:40.544
The teachers asked for this, and we were able to give them these common spaces,” just builds absolutely that trust, that community, um, and, and probably is, is, you know, part of the reason why it’s been such a successful project too.

00:21:41.630 –> 00:21:49.830
Amanda Vottis: It has absolutely helped build that level of buy-in from the community and the trust with the teachers when they start to see the spaces getting built.

00:21:49.910 –> 00:21:56.580
You know, in the first few years and you’re in design of a few phases and like, “We’re not sure.” And then you see one get built and they’re like, “Okay.

00:21:57.040 –> 00:21:57.410
All right.

00:21:57.450 –> 00:21:59.010
I, I like the new classrooms.

00:21:59.040 –> 00:22:02.440
I think, I think I can get on board with the flexibility.

00:22:02.720 –> 00:22:04.670
Um, I like the new cafeteria.

00:22:04.670 –> 00:22:06.690
The students are so respectful.

00:22:06.720 –> 00:22:11.370
They’re taking such good care of it.” We see how they’re interacting with it differently.

00:22:11.570 –> 00:22:15.490
Students that didn’t feel comfortable there before have found a place.

00:22:15.850 –> 00:22:26.310
And to hear those things and to have people come in and to see them, you know, touring other schools through and be so proud of their spaces, the students, the teachers, it’s, it’s just incredible.

00:22:26.320 –> 00:22:38.200
So pushing through to the next referendum, you’re able to say, “Hey, this school came out.” They, they did the vi- they did videos and they showed the spaces that were built and they said, “Hey, we’re continuing this.

00:22:38.200 –> 00:22:53.180
We’ve, we’ve heard your voice and we’ve heard that it’s successful and we’re gonna keep continuing this and chip away a little bit by little at the renovations to– for each school to try to make everything a little bit better and, you know, we’ll keep going.”

00:22:54.008 –> 00:22:55.228
Jessica Westerduin: Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:55.268 –> 00:22:57.408
And get that feedback and improve, right?

00:22:57.428 –> 00:22:59.818
Improve upon new things that are happening too.

00:22:59.985 –> 00:23:01.695
I really, really appreciate that.

00:23:01.695 –> 00:23:03.555
And I, I wanna go back to this idea.

00:23:03.555 –> 00:23:05.985
I thought of a little pr- a little game we could play, right?

00:23:05.985 –> 00:23:10.385
Saratoga Springs School District, ’cause Amanda comes from thinking schools, right?

00:23:10.395 –> 00:23:17.175
School design, boring came to mind, and I love that you were honest and vulnerable about that because it’s so true, right?

00:23:17.225 –> 00:23:18.735
And it, it’s still prevalent today.

00:23:18.735 –> 00:23:20.725
That was probably years ago when they asked you that.

00:23:20.725 –> 00:23:26.615
And, you know, you think about schools, and there’s not that, you know, different– there’s not that many different designs, and it could be boring.

00:23:26.615 –> 00:23:40.695
So thinking about Saratoga School District, right, what words would you like to have a small Amanda, an 18-year-old Amanda, describe Saratoga School District?

00:23:40.695 –> 00:23:45.655
You know, if they walk through that building, how, what, what are some of the, the words that you would want them to come up with?

00:23:45.815 –> 00:23:48.655
Or maybe that the vision, the educational vision process brought up?

00:23:51.055 –> 00:23:53.480
Amanda Vottis: Well, I, I would like them to feel that it was inviting.

00:23:54.310 –> 00:23:59.590
I would like, I would like, uh, students to feel like, you know, if it was me, I would like to have ownership.

00:24:00.410 –> 00:24:06.980
You know, I wanna come in and feel like it’s my school, which I think some of the informal learning spaces help to do.

00:24:07.510 –> 00:24:09.140
You know, it– those are student spaces.

00:24:09.510 –> 00:24:11.700
Those don’t feel student- teacher owned.

00:24:11.730 –> 00:24:21.660
I can come in, I can sit down with my friends and be like, “Hey, we’re gonna hang out here. This is where I wanna be.” You wanna feel like it’s a space that you want to go to, not a space that you have to go to

00:24:22.528 –> 00:24:22.908
Jessica Westerduin: Right.

00:24:22.938 –> 00:24:27.648
And how powerful would it be to have kids bring in their friends when they make that decision, right?

00:24:27.648 –> 00:24:34.688
And expose like, “This is where I feel most safe, and I love inviting…” I thought of the word, um, I thought of the word proud, right?

00:24:34.738 –> 00:24:40.978
As a school, like your– You kind of brought that up with your, you know, experience with working in your own school that you actually went to.

00:24:40.978 –> 00:24:44.898
I’m sure that when you got those keys, proud was what you also felt.

00:24:44.908 –> 00:24:46.478
Someone trusted you enough, you know.

00:24:46.478 –> 00:24:49.058
You weren’t 11, 13-year-old Amanda.

00:24:49.068 –> 00:24:50.608
It was that proud moment.

00:24:50.638 –> 00:25:03.158
And I, I just really love this project, and I hope that students do exit and just feel proud, like they’re having– I mean, to be honest, they’re having an experience that not the rest of their peers in New York are having right now.

00:25:03.168 –> 00:25:05.758
You know, not only New York, across the, across the world.

00:25:06.268 –> 00:25:06.538
Yeah.

00:25:06.838 –> 00:25:07.578
Absolutely.

00:25:07.618 –> 00:25:21.048
Amanda Vottis: one of, one of the best things, um, that we saw after their fitness center was created was the teams posting on Instagram in the fitness center working out of how excited they were to be there.

00:25:21.348 –> 00:25:28.198
And then the students made videos for the new cafeteria about how they wanted people to take care of it.

00:25:29.548 –> 00:25:40.958
And so it just, just hearing the students’ voice and seeing, seeing those of, you know, these are posts that they’re putting out that they’re tagging the school and, and to see how, how proud they were of the space.

00:25:40.978 –> 00:25:42.158
It’s just incredible

00:25:42.590 –> 00:25:43.150
Jessica Westerduin: That’s great.

00:25:43.160 –> 00:25:43.810
That’s amazing.

00:25:43.820 –> 00:25:45.430
And their football team did really well.

00:25:45.430 –> 00:25:50.100
Not saying that that’s connected, but they did really well this year too, so that’s also wonderful.

00:25:50.160 –> 00:25:56.360
Um, switching up, uh, so misconceptions about design or, or districts.

00:25:56.360 –> 00:26:16.808
Um, you know, if you were working on a project and, and you do have, um, other common maybe either misconceptions that you have to address or, um, things about an ideal learning environment that you,
you know, you wanna make sure during the educational vision process that you’re either, you know, talking about or saying, you know, “This is, you know, how we’re going to go about this project.”

00:26:16.808 –> 00:26:23.117
And, and know that, uh, you know, that you– There might be misconceptions, but you also are, you’re dealing with a client, right?

00:26:23.117 –> 00:26:25.667
And you have to have that balance of what that is.

00:26:25.667 –> 00:26:28.907
So how would you kind of have that conversation with those clients?

00:26:29.680 –> 00:26:35.210
Amanda Vottis: I think one of the things that tends to happen is people think within their walls.

00:26:35.670 –> 00:26:47.120
So you look around, you’re gonna renovate a classroom, and they look around and you say, “Okay.” If you were to, if you were to say, “What does your, what does your classroom need?” The first answer is gonna be storage, everyone’s favorite answer.

00:26:47.530 –> 00:26:58.470
The second answer is gonna be power because, you know, none of the schools are meant to be one-to-one with Chromebooks and have all the technology that they do today, so there’s never enough places to plug in.

00:26:59.440 –> 00:27:09.300
But if you look at it from that student-centered point of view and you ask the question, “What do your students need to be successful in your classroom?

00:27:09.710 –> 00:27:12.210
How do your students learn in this classroom?

00:27:12.770 –> 00:27:27.310
What do you need to be able to support your students?” The answer is different, and it’s not, and it’s not because that information wasn’t there, it’s because I didn’t ask them about the walls of their classroom.

00:27:27.900 –> 00:27:31.830
You know, I asked them about their students, and that gets to the core.

00:27:32.320 –> 00:27:34.800
That’s, that’s what, that’s what they know.

00:27:34.800 –> 00:27:36.270
That’s what they wanna talk about.

00:27:36.510 –> 00:27:37.970
You know, they didn’t go into architecture.

00:27:38.000 –> 00:27:39.110
I went into architecture.

00:27:39.390 –> 00:27:54.070
It’s, so it’s my job to find out what they do every day and how they use their space to find out how we can really help to improve it, and the best way to do that is by talking about their students and what they can do to support them.

00:27:54.780 –> 00:28:02.510
know, I think teachers are fabulous in that they put so much of their heart and their soul into their classrooms.

00:28:02.510 –> 00:28:14.120
They… Their own money to try to create, you know, safe spaces or, you know, finding– I heard a story about a teacher who made a tire chair, and the principal came in and was like, “What is this?”

00:28:14.120 –> 00:28:16.440
She’s like, “It is the favorite spot for the kids to sit.

00:28:16.780 –> 00:28:17.520
They love it.

00:28:17.810 –> 00:28:34.690
They, you know, they’re so well-behaved if they get a chance to sit in it.” He was like, “What is happening?” But he watched and he saw and, you know,
she made something that just made the kids feel welcome and helped them learn, and that’s every teacher is just trying to make do with what they have.

00:28:35.230 –> 00:28:39.020
So then when you get an opportunity to renovate, you almost don’t know what to ask for.

00:28:39.984 –> 00:28:40.334
Jessica Westerduin: Mm-hmm.

00:28:40.954 –> 00:28:41.294
Yeah.

00:28:41.344 –> 00:28:42.314
No, absolutely.

00:28:42.314 –> 00:28:45.564
And you take the product and the obstacles almost off the table.

00:28:45.814 –> 00:28:49.654
And I love what you said about, like, you’re thinking about student behavior.

00:28:49.654 –> 00:28:52.864
We’re not thinking like, let us– Like you are the design expert, right?

00:28:52.894 –> 00:28:59.344
Furniture, let us, like, display what should be there, but I need to know what movement you want.

00:28:59.434 –> 00:29:02.284
I need to know how the teachers are moving in the school.

00:29:02.304 –> 00:29:03.214
Each school is different.

00:29:03.214 –> 00:29:04.074
Is the teacher moving?

00:29:04.084 –> 00:29:05.234
Are the students moving?

00:29:05.284 –> 00:29:15.804
All of those questions are necessary to answer to get to, I think, what, what you’re stating of, you know, it’s not about the barrier or the obstacle or the misconception.

00:29:15.894 –> 00:29:27.505
It’s about knowing what we want and having that guidepost, having a very clear vision of what we want, the decisions that we make because we have such a clear, you know, result of what we wanna see in the classrooms.

00:29:27.515 –> 00:29:32.485
The decisions that we make along the way are going to be aligned when you have that educational vision meeting.

00:29:33.071 –> 00:29:46.912
as we close out for our reflection, uh, what is one, takeaway that you want listeners to remember about, you know, bringing students in radically student design or just K to 12 design?

00:29:47.329 –> 00:29:57.549
Amanda Vottis: I think sometimes when you think about learning styles and how different students are and how many students are in a building, it can get overwhelming.

00:29:57.939 –> 00:30:02.449
And a lot of us didn’t grow up in the schools that we’re designing.

00:30:02.899 –> 00:30:10.859
You know, I was very much went to a school that the teacher was at the front of the classroom, all the desks faced forward, and that was how you learned.

00:30:11.419 –> 00:30:14.219
And I, you know, I think for most of us, that’s still the case.

00:30:14.288 –> 00:30:25.208
And so it can be hard to think about how you move forward, and it’s a hard adjustment for, you know, it can be a hard adjustment for teachers to make, to make that transition and for anyone to make.

00:30:25.938 –> 00:30:40.878
But when you start to think about your own day and how you go about the stuff that you do, you know, I don’t like to read in the same space that I would do my taxes because those are very different types of things that I’m doing.

00:30:40.878 –> 00:30:42.368
That’s different brain activity.

00:30:43.148 –> 00:31:01.468
So then once you start to apply it and you realize that this isn’t just a student thing, this is a person thing, this is everybody in their life and so what are
the different spaces that you need within a building to make students feel comfortable when they’re reading or when they’re doing math or when they’re doing art?

00:31:01.498 –> 00:31:03.298
Those spaces are very different.

00:31:03.558 –> 00:31:08.878
And schools are really just, you know, mini microcosms of the, of the community.

00:31:09.138 –> 00:31:17.458
They have everything that exists outside on a smaller scale to accommodate everything that students need all day long.

00:31:17.998 –> 00:31:21.998
And kids are there, you know, my kids are at school more than they’re at home.

00:31:22.958 –> 00:31:27.208
I want, I want them to be comfortable and safe in their environment.

00:31:27.208 –> 00:31:33.728
I want them to be able to find their space that, you know, they truly feel like they can learn and they can be themselves.

00:31:34.718 –> 00:31:48.128
So I hope that as people move forward, that thinking about your own day and how you use your own spaces makes it a little bit easier to translate that into how you could see that being applied to a school.

00:31:49.780 –> 00:31:50.230
Jessica Westerduin: Absolutely.

00:31:50.290 –> 00:31:51.980
That was very well said, so thank you so much.

00:31:51.980 –> 00:31:53.330
I very much appreciate that.

00:31:53.720 –> 00:32:05.720
I did wanna also highlight, um, Mosaik’s, uh, website that has many, many case studies, including more information about Saratoga Springs School District, if any listeners would like to reach out, um, or go to the website.

00:32:06.450 –> 00:32:08.740
Um, we wanna thank you so much for your time, Amanda.

00:32:08.740 –> 00:32:11.580
Your expertise and insights have been very valuable.

00:32:11.610 –> 00:32:15.330
I really had my pleasure today, so thank you so much for coming.

00:32:15.720 –> 00:32:24.460
Um, if listeners would like to hear more or share their own radically student-centered moments, we invite you to like, comment, and share at betterlearningpodcast.com

00:32:26.174 –> 00:32:30.594
The Better Learning Podcast is produced by Matt Rogers and edited by Kelly Jones.

00:32:31.304 –> 00:32:40.704
The views and opinions shared on this podcast are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily represent the perspectives of their affiliated companies, organizations, or associations