Read Transcript:

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Jeff Kubiak: Hello, everyone.

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This is Jeff Kubiak, your host today of the Better Learning Podcast.

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I am so excited to, uh, introduce our guest today.

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Mr. Oren Williams, has spent 33 years in education, facilities planning typically.

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Um, he has been a member of CASH, the Coalition of Adequate Student Housing, A4LE, the Association for Learning Environments.

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He was also the CALSA Employee of the Year a few back, and I’m just really blessed and, and grateful to have you on, sir, because the work you’ve done over your lifespan has really been a positive impact on, on so many.

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Not just students, but teachers, staff, community members.

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So thank you

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Orin Williams: Oh, it’s my pleasure.

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Uh, thank you for having me today, and I look forward to, uh, talking about facilities.

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It’s my

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Jeff Kubiak: So may- maybe give us a little roadmap.

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I know you went to Cal Poly Pomona and you did some other things, so maybe kind of your roadmap to take us where you are today

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Orin Williams: Sure.

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Um, I s- did start at Cal Poly Pomona, uh, Bachelor of Architecture degree, from, uh, Cal Poly, and I, uh, really appreciated what that afforded me as far as opportunities for facilities.

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Uh, worked in private practice, uh, and then I had an opportunity to work at Pomona Unified School District back in 1992, and so I made a trans- transition, uh, out of private practice into, uh, school facilities, and I didn’t look back

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Jeff Kubiak: That’s amazing.

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So my apologies, I didn’t introduce where Oren is.

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So currently he is the s- assistant superintendent, facilities, planning, and development.

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we’ll start with a kind of an easy, fun one.

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What project or initiative, and ’cause you’ve had a long, illustrious career, has re- really given you that, “Wow, this is why I do what I do,” kind of that moment?

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Orin Williams: I think projects in general, each one has its own, you know, fun aspect to it.

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Um, there’s one in particular that I worked on while I was assistant superintendent at Santa Ana Unified, uh, where we actually took an aged
school that had a lot of disparate parts, uh, some older facilities, and were really able to reconfigure that school into a cohesive whole.

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Uh, redoing the space so that TK and K had proper facilities, uh, weaving the campus elements together, and then tearing down old dilapidated
classrooms and creating a proper field, uh, and also creating a playground that actually was also a learning tool that faculty were able to use.

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So, uh, I think doing those kinds of projects are the ones that really have been, uh, sparked joy for me

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Jeff Kubiak: That’s great.

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One thing that jumps out at me is you have a unique background as an architect designer brain, and then moving into the facilities.

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And so I take it your perspective is a little different than maybe someone that just came through the actual facilities department,

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Orin Williams: I think so.

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What I– I, although I miss private practice, what I saw my benefit and my job is to be an advocate for architects.

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I think great architecture and great school design, uh, doesn’t happen without a good client, uh, and having a client that’s an advocate for trying to push the envelope to do better.

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Um, a lot of times we have practitioners who don’t necessarily have that design understanding, and so sometimes our school facilities can become somewhat mediocre.

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And that’s what I always loved about Association for Learning Environments is their pursuit of excellence and the collaboration that happens in those forums.

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And so I– that’s where I think that my architectural background has helped, uh, in my capital facilities career.

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Jeff Kubiak: Oh, that’s amazing.

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So one of the important things, in your work, I presume, is with, you know, bond projects, capital projects is, so how do you h- maybe
help the taxpayers within the community understand the connection between the quality of physical learning environments and the outcomes?

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So, you know, ’cause it’s their children that matter.

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So h- how do you help convey that unique perspective to them?

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Orin Williams: Great question, Jeff.

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I– One of my favorite examples of that is I had a naysayer on a bond oversight committee, and she said, “I’m not for the bond.

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I don’t think that what we’re doing is the right use of funds.” And yet we were able to take her on tours and give her slideshows and talk her through the thought process of what
we were doing and why we were doing it, making, uh, facilities and environments where students were inspired to come to school, where they couldn’t wait to get to come to school.

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And especially, uh, for underserved students who don’t have a great home life and maybe don’t, don’t have a great home environment, uh, the school is their only opportunity really to kind of, to express themselves and feel valued.

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And having students come out of a facility that you just opened to say, “You know, I’m changing my schedule so I can be in this facility all day long,”
’cause they were so impressed and inspired and thankful that somebody cared enough to provide something for them, uh, that made a difference for the students.

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But this, this bond oversight committee member, she actually, at the end, uh, began to solicit the board and say, “Hey, you know what?

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I know I’ve been critical of the past, but, um, I really believe in what we’re doing now.” And to be able to show, community members up close and personal that we’re doing the best job we can
with taxpayer dollars, and yet we’re also being– not only being frugal, but also, uh, creating spaces where their children are gonna be inspired for decades and hopefully centuries to come.

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Jeff Kubiak: Yeah.

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So, you know, as a teacher and a principal, I was always trying to, you know, help s- the value proposition.

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You know, you want those kids to rush in and be so excited about what they’re doing.

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And, you know, tying that all together i- is really important.

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You- you’re oftentimes, you know, stewards of public funds and, in your experience, what really separates a school that simply functions from one that transform the community?

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Orin Williams: Schools that transform the community really are ones that, our, our historical construction of schools has been these gigantic, uh, monuments to education that towered in the community,
that communities built and a lot of money and, and put a lot of money and time into these, uh, giant buildings, and then we put kids in portable classrooms, and we tell them that education’s important.

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And I think that that paradox is important for us to get back to building facilities that not are platinum-plated, but facilities that are high
quality, that actually meet their needs, and that every aspect of the facility itself can become a learning tool for the instructional community.

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So whether counselors or teachers or, uh, whomever is working with students, uh, playground, uh, supervisors, uh, can use those
different facilities to allow students to learn more, whether it’s a game on the playground or a mural on the wall, that they actually…

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the students are actually capturing something about their community, about who they are and their place in this world and their future.

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And so I think that that’s an opportunity that we need to explore more.

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Jeff Kubiak: I love that.

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And I, you know, I think it’s important that, and I’ll lead this to my next question is, is the value add from our community members really helping them understand that this is like a, this is a legacy project, right?

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It’s once in a 50 year, et cetera.

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So have you typically included stakeholders, students, teachers, community members in some of the decisions or, um, outcomes in those projects?

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Orin Williams: Every time we can.

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Uh, we’re in the process currently of doing a faculty survey and having administrators and faculty tell us what they wanna see in this school that we’re gonna reconfigure.

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and it really was informative in, in guiding us of what they really want.

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Uh, some assumptions that we had initially were, modified as a result of those surveys.

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Uh, talking to the community always, particularly looking at today with declining enrollment.

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in my last district, we actually– um, in the current district as well, but in my last district, we were looking at repurposing schools and consolidating some schools because of declining enrollment.

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And as my colleague, uh, Jeremy Cogan from Santa Ana says, you know, we go through the stages of grief when we talk to community members about these things and really getting them to understand that change is hard.

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Um, but as we walk them through and answer their questions and being open and transparent and fully honest about what we’re, what we’re– or what our intentions are, even the hard
things really sometimes become easier when they know that you’re not trying to pull the wool over their eyes, and they begin to have– e-engage in those conversations about why.

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And at that time, once they start negotiating with you about the terms, then you realize that, okay, they understand the logic of it as well.

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‘Cause a lot of times from a, as a facilities practitioner, we deal with the logic of things, but we don’t necessarily delve into the emotional aspect of it.

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This is my…

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You know, my, my mother went to this school, and now, now you’re telling me that we’re gonna do something with it that’s different than it’s been for the last 50 years?

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And so that emotion is really what we have to tap into and, I think, you know, as if someone is grieving, deal with them on that level, uh, and then continue to nurture and ask, uh, questions and then have them ask questions of you.

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But I think those transitions allow us to really make a difference in facilities and, uh, bringing the community along, students along.

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I love having student interactions, uh, because they have some of the most creative ideas sometimes that, ideas come from everywhere, and we need to be open to all of them

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Jeff Kubiak: That’s, that’s such a, a salient strong point.

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It… So then taking that, then how do you balance the financial realities because, you know, cost of construction and everything are going up so high with the really the true desire to impact those student experiences?

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Orin Williams: Always trying to not overpromise.

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Uh, we want to, uh, underpromise and overdeliver.

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Um, but I think the beauty of it is, is those of us who’ve been in the industry a long time and then surrounding ourselves with high-quality consultants really makes a
difference, uh, in being able to provide answers or material to the community to where you know that you can actually deliver some of the things that you were promising.

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And again, honesty and being forthright with the community, uh, is everything.

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Once they believe that, uh, you are gonna do what you say… We actually are having a situation like that now with the new school that we’re, uh, in the process of constructing.

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the community members had for 10 years been kind of put off and didn’t believe that this school was ever gonna happen.

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Uh, but that consistency and that honesty, uh, allowed them to build trust in what we were telling them.

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And today, you know, at Christmas, I actually got a Christmas card from one of the ladies who, again, was a, a detractor from this district, um, because she was very thankful that, you know, y- we’re actually doing what we say.

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And I think that’s the most important thing that we can do is if we can’t do something, uh, be honest and, and open about that early on as well
and say, “If I had more money, I would do it. Uh, but here’s– And here’s, here’s the limitations of why.” Uh, and then reasoning with people.

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People want to solve problems, and they just need to have the, the parameters to be able to understand why you’re doing what you’re doing

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Jeff Kubiak: Yeah.

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That’s, that’s such a, a great, great thought about it.

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So when you, um, undertake a project such as the one you’re, you’re in the middle of right now, what do you look for in the support and the professionals
that are gonna help design that and everything as far as like emerging school trends and, and things like that about what’s, what’s the legacy?

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You know, what legacy does Orin want to leave with Riverside and the constituents?

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Orin Williams: Great question.

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I– Some of the things that we’re working on for this school in particular are, the gamification of some of the different, strategies that they use in the classroom, in
the playground itself, uh, and in murals and some of the elements on, on stairs and different elements within the school that actually incorporate learning everywhere.

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Uh, and so, for example, uh, we have a principal who’s phenomenal with linguistics, and she’s actually helped us, uh, to develop games and, uh, opportunities for kids to– while they’re actually playing a game, they’re learning something.

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Uh, we work with a, uh, really gifted colleague from the University of Irvine, a Dr.

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Bustamante, who’s developed a, um, game called, Fraction Ball.

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And Fraction Ball is an opportunity where kids are playing basketball, but you have to win by getting to whole points.

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And you can shoot from anywhere, but if you get a two-thirds point shot, you still now you have to figure out, “How do I get to a whole point?”

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And the kids are so enthralled and, and in love with the game that they learn fractions without even having to think, “I’m not good at math.” And quite honestly, it’s a way for them to overcome.

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So I think those types of strategies, both linguistically and mathematically, weaving those into the campus and creating, like I said, those environments where kids can’t wait to get to school and they feel valued, uh, really make a difference

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You know, when we work with schools at K12, it’s not just about furniture or design, it’s about impact.

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Our radically student-centered approach puts students at the center of every decision.

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From that first conversation to the final walkthrough, we’re focused on creating spaces that actually work for the kids, the teachers, and the community.

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So if you’re looking to do more than just check a box on your next project, let’s talk.

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Visit k12.com, that’s K-A-Y-T-W-E-L-V-E.com, and see how we’re helping schools transform learning one student at a time.

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Because at K12, it’s not just about projects and furniture, it’s about purpose

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Jeff Kubiak: do you travel, like, the greater, you know, Southern California basin, or do you kinda… Have, have you looked at model schools?

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‘Cause I know you’ve, you know, c- connected with, uh, Professor Bustamante and, and your amazing teacher.

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Where else do you get those amazing ideas?

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Orin Williams: I– That’s the beauty of, I think, again, Associat- the Association for Learning Environments.

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Um, through that group, I’ve had an opportunity to travel to even Singapore and look at some schools in Singapore, and other places, uh, throughout the world, but domestically in particular, going to other states.

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Um, you know, states like, Utah, Texas, New Mexico, um, New England states, uh, their schools are substantially larger and, uh, they put a lot of square
footage into, uh, their schools, allowing students to have a wide variety and more creative spaces, I think, than sometimes that we do in California.

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And I think that those are opportunities for us to learn.

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and then also to learn from charter schools.

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Uh, sometimes smaller schools have, to use spaces two and three times to serve the same purpose.

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And so we’re trying to incorporate some of those strategies in this new elementary school we’re building, where we’re actually cre- um, creating a multipurpose room that has three or four different functions, which allows us to maximize that space.

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Because on a very small, limited size campus and with limited funds, it’s the best way to get the best bang for our buck

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Jeff Kubiak: You know, I, I think that perspective is so powerful because, you know, a school is a learning environment, and I, I don’t think we can close one area of learn… Right?

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So you can learn outdoors, indoors, cafeteria, library, you know, even the administrative office for students, and I, I think that’s such a great perspective.

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Like, use all the square footage, right, for any opportunity.

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Orin Williams: Mm-hmm.

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Exactly.

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You know, the office is a great place.

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You know, the first thing that students see when they come in the office to be registered for school, at the school I was referring to earlier, we actually had a color board, and it was basically a game on the office wall that kids could play.

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So the school was built from the very beginning.

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When you enter the school, it’s designed for students, you know, and it’s designed for faculties to be– faculty to be able to support students.

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And so it’s important to be able to do that.

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One of the things I’ve always wanted to do is do a giant Lego wall on, you know, a front entrance, a front office in order to be able to,
again, just, you know, get kids to get, uh, buy in and enjoy their time when they first come to school and realize this is the place for me

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Jeff Kubiak: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I’ve, I, I’ve seen those and they’re, they’re phenomenal.

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So now that we have some of those ideas, what are some of the metrics or data points that, that someone in your position might look at or might n- miss that could be critical, to decide on whether that project is really worth funding?

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Orin Williams: I think that the biggest thing is to make sure that you’re in line with the, the board’s goals and their objectives.

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Uh, they’ve actually surveyed the community.

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They know what the community’s expectations are, and making sure that these projects align with the district goals, um, and our
instructional focus, uh, make sure that we’re actually, delivering the products that the community and the board, uh, really want to see.

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And so we have a lot of communication back and forth with our board, uh, as well as with the community to make sure that we’re on the right track when it comes to, uh, the product delivery

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Jeff Kubiak: That’s, that’s amazing.

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So, kind of as your, career has developed and matriculated, I, I’m sure you’ve, you know, gained so many different hats and understandings.

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What, what’s something that you’ve maybe mastered now that you never thought or expected y- would become a part of or a core to your role?

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Orin Williams: You know, as much as, um, I love the architecture and the design of schools, um, I had an opportunity– So I’ve been to Riverside three different times, Riverside Unified School District, and my second time here was on a lark.

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Uh, my late wife had passed away.

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Um, the chancellor where I was at, I was at the Riverside Community College District at the time, uh, he was retiring and there was a lot of change.

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And I ran into my old boss, and he s- he was having a hard time hiring a director of maintenance.

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And so I had an opportunity.

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I s- I said on a lark, I said, “That sounds like a hoot. I think I would enjoy that.” And he said, “We should talk.” And I said, “I’ve never done maintenance. I, I, I wouldn’t do that, couldn’t do that.”

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And the more we talked about it, you know, architects are generalists, and I really enjoyed and appreciated my time in maintenance, and I really never expected that.

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it also helped me get a deeper understanding and come from, an MOT perspective, uh, to facilities projects, uh, with a different approach and a different collaborative mentality.

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And I think that sometimes we lack that, and facilities and maintenance don’t always see eye to eye because of budgets and because of a simplicity of maintenance, right?

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Uh, and so I think that was something that when I– I wasn’t sure how much I was going to enjoy it, but I learned a lot from it, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

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So when I was at Santa Ana, being over design, construction, and maintenance, uh, it really allowed me to kind of, make the family more collaborative and,
and all three directors were able to work together, I think because I tried to, uh, hopefully, weave them together like an orchestra instead of adversaries.

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Jeff Kubiak: Oh, that’s, that’s fantastic.

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I– It’s amazing when you cross paths with leaders that just happen to draw people to them, right?

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And, um, the more experience you have in other roles can help you define what you’re doing even better, right?

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Yeah.

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That’s phenomenal.

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So what– If you, you know, we move five, 10 years ahead, you’ve retired kind of doing different things now, what would you hope people will someday understand about the role that Orin Williams played?

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Orin Williams: I hope that, uh, well, you know, obviously my name will never be on a bronze plaque.

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All the board

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Jeff Kubiak: that, sir. Never say that

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Orin Williams: you know, board, board members and architects get those opportunities.

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But for me, I think that going back and hearing the, uh, users, uh, and their experiences and that things worked out the way that it was intended, the way the designs were.

00:20:55.018 –> 00:21:02.967
Um, having an opportunity to go back to a culinary academy that I, uh, worked on, different other projects that I’ve worked on.

00:21:03.617 –> 00:21:08.907
Um, my daughter actually is at the same community college district where I was associate vice chancellor.

00:21:09.397 –> 00:21:18.881
Uh, my daughter is actually in nursing school, and so her opportunity to be able to use the nursing science facility that I worked on and built, is very satisfying.

00:21:18.901 –> 00:21:23.101
And just to get her feedback on what did you like and what did you not like about it.

00:21:23.651 –> 00:21:30.591
Um, I think hearing about those things is, it’s, it’s almost kind of like, uh, hearing about students that were in your classroom in the past.

00:21:30.591 –> 00:21:35.581
I’m sure you appreciate when students come up and talk to you about, you know, where they are in their lives.

00:21:35.621 –> 00:21:39.881
And I think facilities for me are the same way as I, I hope that they’re successful.

00:21:39.881 –> 00:21:46.421
But, you know, um, I’m open to the, the criticism as well because, uh, I always wanna continue to learn and grow

00:21:46.586 –> 00:21:48.216
Jeff Kubiak: That’s– I love that mindset.

00:21:48.796 –> 00:22:05.086
So l- i- if we could go back a little bit to one of the points we were talk… We were talking about, you know, weighing the community
expectations and the goals of the district budgets and cr- how do you weigh all that and kind of put it together in a mesh bag, you know?

00:22:05.086 –> 00:22:07.875
So you’ve got, you know, you want the community’s input.

00:22:07.996 –> 00:22:11.456
You’ve got the, the board driving the goals, and you’ve got the budget.

00:22:11.465 –> 00:22:13.609
How do you really facilitate all that?

00:22:14.490 –> 00:22:18.210
Orin Williams: Um, it is a very fluid exercise.

00:22:18.613 –> 00:22:31.093
obviously being aware of what resources you have and then being able to… I, I think one of the things that we as facilities leaders must do is get better at, at articulating no.

00:22:31.413 –> 00:22:37.523
Um, but, you know, not, you know, “If, if I could, I would, but I can’t, and so here’s an alternative.”

00:22:37.523 –> 00:22:43.563
And coming up with creative alternatives, um, because budget is always gonna be a driving factor for the most part.

00:22:43.913 –> 00:22:45.283
Uh, funds aren’t unlimited.

00:22:45.793 –> 00:22:53.523
But also looking at is there a creative way of solving the problem with different materials or a different way that we haven’t thought about?

00:22:53.913 –> 00:22:58.073
And again, I think that that’s what, you know, being older in your career gives you an opportunity.

00:22:58.073 –> 00:23:04.393
You’ve seen a lot more, and it just kind of gives you more tools to work with in your toolbox to be able to solve the problems.

00:23:04.893 –> 00:23:19.012
But I think, again, sometimes if the board really wanted a project to be a certain way and you convince them that, you know, this is the right way to go, I’ve seen boards, uh, dig deep and, you know, augment projects if necessary.

00:23:19.372 –> 00:23:30.462
Uh, but if necessary, you’ve also got to be willing to look at, and I don’t like the term value engineering, but you have to look at areas that you need to be able to trim to be able to get projects into budget sometimes.

00:23:30.623 –> 00:23:35.783
and then you’re always, you know, strategically looking at the best time for bidding so that you get the best bids.

00:23:35.783 –> 00:23:45.473
Our new elementary school, which I was concerned about, came in on budget and so, you know, all the things that we had hoped to design and build into the school, we’ll be able to do that.

00:23:46.023 –> 00:23:49.293
Uh, but that’s not always the case, especially times with high inflation.

00:23:49.303 –> 00:23:58.043
So, um, I think it’s, it’s a day-by-day adjustment and, uh, just being fluid and creative helps solve those problems the best that you can.

00:23:58.193 –> 00:24:04.691
Jeff Kubiak: Yeah, part of the, the legacy and the long-term investment of a school facility is there’s a lot that goes into it, right?

00:24:04.691 –> 00:24:16.802
So how do you help people understand that, the long-term investment of furniture or technology or, you know, HVAC or whatever it is, you know, like how, how do you convey the importance of that value?

00:24:18.252 –> 00:24:19.022
Orin Williams: That’s a good question.

00:24:19.292 –> 00:24:22.332
Um, and I don’t know we always do that as well.

00:24:22.656 –> 00:24:27.196
and so I, I’m gonna say maybe that’s something that is an area of growth for us in the industry.

00:24:27.696 –> 00:24:40.566
Um, you know, how do you convey to a taxpayer, “Hey, this school, the, the gas line that we’re modernizing at this school is Swiss cheese because it’s been, you know, corroded because it’s 60 years old, and it was a galvanized pipe.”

00:24:41.001 –> 00:24:46.381
and so infrastructure is very difficult for people to want to invest in, and yet it’s essential.

00:24:46.571 –> 00:25:00.431
Um, this gas line I’m referring to, we end up replacing it, but before we replaced it, our maintenance staff literally had to put a, um, hose bib on the end of the gas line to be able to drain the water out of the gas line because it has– it was so porous.

00:25:01.031 –> 00:25:21.071
And so you, you get into these situations, and so hopefully at that point, when they cut out a piece of this gas line during a repair, you can show that to the community to be able to say,
“This is why we’re investing in these things. Um, because, you know, obviously this, this, um, utility, this element has served its useful life, and at that point, it needs to be replaced.”

00:25:21.121 –> 00:25:26.491
But, um, I think that is one of the most difficult pieces is that some of the unseen components.

00:25:26.711 –> 00:25:46.579
People do enjoy air conditioning, and so they– you can tell people that you need air conditioning, but gas lines, water lines, uh, restroom accommodations, different
things like that, you know, using word pictures and being able to describe that, uh, to get the community to buy in, um, is– can be challenging and, uh, but is a fruitful

00:25:46.939 –> 00:25:59.419
Jeff Kubiak: Yeah, the value of visuals, not only in children, are so important, I think, for everyone because like you said, they’re, they’re putting money and, and investing in something, but you can’t always see exactly what it is, right?

00:25:59.912 –> 00:26:08.684
so you’re on campus, um, a- maybe at one of the architect schools or a school that is construction management facilities.

00:26:08.684 –> 00:26:14.334
What advice would you give someone who’s thinking about a career kind of following your footsteps?

00:26:15.402 –> 00:26:20.902
Orin Williams: I think that capital facilities, being in facilities in general is a great opportunity.

00:26:21.342 –> 00:26:29.572
Uh, even with declining enrollment, there are creative opportunities for us to work on asset management and repurposing schools currently.

00:26:29.916 –> 00:26:34.156
the one thing I’ve loved about my career is that it’s always changing and there’s always something going on.

00:26:34.606 –> 00:26:44.086
And so whether it’s building– Uh, I built 20% of the schools here at Riverside Unified School District, and being the 16th largest district in the state, you know, it’s quite a few schools.

00:26:44.622 –> 00:26:52.982
but also being in other school districts, repurposing schools, um, I found that to be a challenge that’s always been as, as, uh, as validating.

00:26:53.032 –> 00:27:06.672
So I think it’s a great career and when you look at the focus in- instead of, you know, really just giving lip service to, but really focusing on how am I, how am I bettering instruction?

00:27:06.682 –> 00:27:08.072
How am I bettering education?

00:27:08.212 –> 00:27:21.182
I believe to my core in free public education, and so for me to be able to do my part, you know, I’m almost kinda– I feel like I work for the Peace Corps in some ways, uh, trying to give back to the community, right?

00:27:21.612 –> 00:27:25.826
And yet I am very well-treated and, and I’ve been generously treated.

00:27:25.826 –> 00:27:34.796
And I think the focus that I have is just if I keep my eye on why I’m doing what I’m doing, uh, even the hard days are, are a little bit easier.

00:27:35.006 –> 00:27:37.826
And I think that, you know, it’s a worthwhile profession.

00:27:37.896 –> 00:27:45.626
I think, you know, get as much experience and as many opportunities and go see as many, uh, schools as you possibly can to get ideas.

00:27:45.896 –> 00:27:51.226
Talk to as many professionals and participate in different organizations that, uh, really allow you to grow.

00:27:51.846 –> 00:27:59.223
Um, I think, uh, pursuing capital facilities, uh, as an administrator, as a planner is, to me, it’s the best job in the school district

00:27:59.805 –> 00:28:00.595
Jeff Kubiak: That’s amazing.

00:28:00.999 –> 00:28:05.129
what, what gives you hope about our future, the future of education, especially public?

00:28:06.090 –> 00:28:13.280
Orin Williams: What gives me hope about the future is that, we have a lot of people in the institution that care.

00:28:13.514 –> 00:28:20.584
and I think that rallying those people around and collecting those people around you, um, is really where you can make a difference.

00:28:20.738 –> 00:28:24.598
there’s a lot of headwind, you know, and declining enrollment is not fun.

00:28:25.038 –> 00:28:30.598
And, you know, uh, state, you know, inconsistencies in state budgets is not fun either.

00:28:31.128 –> 00:28:43.008
Um, but I think that what gives me hope is that there’s a lot of good people coming up in the industry that really are collaborative, that really enjoy the process and want to do the right thing.

00:28:43.408 –> 00:28:50.078
And so, you know, I’m very hopeful that they will continue to do that and, uh, do better than I ever did, that’s for sure.

00:28:50.166 –> 00:28:50.576
Jeff Kubiak: Wow.

00:28:51.316 –> 00:29:02.354
One of my hopes is that, uh, we’re gonna have a couple more years of Orin Williams because I’m just, blown away by the work you’ve done, sir. So thank you for, um, being on the Better Learning Podcast.

00:29:02.404 –> 00:29:05.104
Those listeners, if you’re new, share it with a friend.

00:29:05.594 –> 00:29:12.664
Um, but once again, the Assistant Superintendent of Facilities Plan and Development, Orin Williams of Riverside Unified.

00:29:12.914 –> 00:29:15.694
Thank you for, uh, your amazing knowledge, my friend.

00:29:15.744 –> 00:29:16.334
Appreciate you

00:29:17.286 –> 00:29:17.876
Orin Williams: Yeah, my pleasure.

00:29:17.936 –> 00:29:18.306
Thank you

00:29:20.142 –> 00:29:24.602
The Better Learning Podcast is produced by Matt Rogers and edited by Kelly Jones.

00:29:25.282 –> 00:29:34.652
The views and opinions shared on this podcast are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily represent the perspectives of their affiliated companies, organizations, or associations