Read Transcript:

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Carla Cummins: So welcome to the Better Learning Podcast.

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I’m your host, Carla Cummins.

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On this podcast, we explore people, ideas, and innovations that shape the future of education.

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And so today we’re really lucky to be joined by Mark Shepherd from, uh, BVH Architecture.

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And Mark, I have a question, a couple of questions that I’m hoping you’re gonna tell me, but, um, in terms of location, ’cause I didn’t get where you were located.

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But I also think one of the biggest things as you walk into telling us about yourself is, is that your natural– You’re not actually an architect.

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Your path to being with BVH came in a different way, so I’m hoping that you’ll talk about that today and tell us how you got here

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Mark Shepard: Absolutely, Carlo.

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Well, I’m glad to be here.

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Mark Shepherd, I’m the K-12 advisor for BVH Architecture, and as you mentioned, I’m not an architect.

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Uh, I have to remind people that often.

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my pathway here is I was a, uh, industrial tech teacher, so taught, uh, in CTE before it was called CTE.

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I think in back in the day we called it shop.

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and then moved into the business side of the school district, was a business manager and associate superintendent for many years, and then finished my career for the last 11 years, I was superintendent of schools in Fremont, Nebraska.

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during the time in Fremont, where I’d been the associate superintendent and then eventually the superintendent over a 25-year period of time,
we had, uh, pursued three different bond issues, and all three were with BVH Architecture, and so the relationship really started there.

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Uh, in the middle of my tenure with Fremont, I spent five years as the associate superintendent for business for Lincoln Public Schools in Lincoln, Nebraska, and again, several projects, including the CTE Center, uh, in Lincoln during that time.

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just a little background on BVH Architecture.

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We’re kind of a mid-size architectural firm.

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We have three studios.

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Uh, our primary studio’s in Lincoln.

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We have a studio in Omaha, Nebraska, and then also a studio in Denver, Colorado.

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Carla Cummins: So that answers my question.

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You’re in Lincoln then, obviously,

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Mark Shepard: Yeah, I’m in Lincoln.

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I’m actually in Fremont today, but, we have, uh, about 55, uh, professional staff

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Carla Cummins: Okay, perfect.

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So, I mean, ultimately you got involved in designing schools or learning spaces, I mean, probably before even coming to BVH on the educational side.

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Did you ever have, in your superintendency in either positions, the opportunity to work, well you did, right, throughout your bond?

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Mark Shepard: I, I did work through, uh, three different bond issues and then several projects as well at Lincoln.

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But, um, you know, my background was industrial tech.

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I used to teach AutoCAD.

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I used to teach drafting, welding, wood shop, automotive.

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Uh, that’s really where my passion lies.

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and so when I saw the opportunity, to start to develop programming, to develop, uh, facilities that would really, uh, be a game changer for our students, um, I seized the opportunity.

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we, we completed, in my final year at Fremont, a 30,000 square foot, CTE center.

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and really as I look at it, it was my career coming, like, full circle.

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Uh, started out in a shop, uh, ended up in a shop.

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And now, uh, since then I’ve been working for the last 12 months, uh, with BBH, uh, working with schools, identifying and helping them, uh, solve problems, and then also, uh, with a real strong emphasis on CTE

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Carla Cummins: So that’s, I mean, it’s interesting.

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So you have the opportunity to look through two lenses, right?

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Like 12 months isn’t a really long time sitting in a seat at an, at an architectural firm.

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But We always talk about our process and what we do, and the focus on the podcast is being radically student-centered.

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So when you hear that, right, in your words, what does it mean to you?

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Mark Shepard: Well, I think everything that we do needs to be student-centered.

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And, you know, when I think about my career, when I think about why, why I moved into education as a career pathway, uh, my father was a superintendent of schools.

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and I just– I knew that I wanted to do something, uh, to help students, uh, achieve to their maximum potential.

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And when we look at over the last probably ten years, uh, there’s been quite a transition that’s occurred where, you know, forever, uh,
we’ve been on the side of every student needs a four-year degree, and anything less than that, uh, is something less than complete success.

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And the reality is that’s never been the case.

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when I taught, uh, and I taught for five years, um, you know, the students in my classrooms, they were prepared to go out and do something.

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there are students that, uh, will thrive working with their hands, thrive working with their mind to problem solve.

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Uh, when you think about the skills that employers want, you know, beyond being there, being on time and that type of thing, they want problem-solving.

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They want the ability to get along, to work on a team.

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and I think, uh, CTE programming offers all of those opportunities for students

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Carla Cummins: Yeah.

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So I have a son, oddly enough, I think he’s sitting behind me, but he, um, he’s 20 years old, about to be 21.

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And obviously as a parent, right?

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Like I push my kids like college, college, college, college, college, because ultimately, you know, it’s, it’s what’s next and it’s the next thing to do.

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And he, um, his senior year came to us and said, “Hey, like I’m not college material.”

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And I thought, “Well, your photography teacher told you that.

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That’s not true.

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You have no idea what that looks like.” And he’s like, “Mom, I just am not gonna go to college.” And so the thing was is like, “You h- Joey, you have to pick
something.” And so he, you know, post-graduating high school, he’s been working with an electrical contractor and is going to school for, to become an electrician.

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And it was like, it’s a beautiful opportunity and it’s, well, I don’t want you to be disappointed.

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I’m like, “No, I want you to be successful.” Success doesn’t look the same for every single person.

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What does that look like?

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And for him, you know, he’s found success in it and he’s found a path where he, it’s, you know, he finds joy in whatever else.

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So I, I get it.

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And I don’t know that everybody looks at the, at it the same, although there is a large emphasis right now on CTE and, you know, trades and everything else.

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So in, in going through the Fremont project, what do you think was, the portion of that that put students at the center and made a measurable difference, d- did it impact the district in a specific way or

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Mark Shepard: I, I think it impacted beyond the district.

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it literally was life-changing for our students and is life-changing for our students.

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Um, it impacted our local economy and our local industry.

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it really gave students, you know, the opportunity to be exposed to some things, but also to gain some skill sets that they otherwise would not have.

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Just like your son, you know, one of the programs that we have in our facility is a, a program where they build houses, and they physically
build about a 1,200 square foot house inside the building Which is not a small house, it’s a decent sized house, three bedrooms, two baths.

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when the project’s done, they pull it out of the building and they go place it on a site within the community.

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And so when we think about authentic learning, we think about authentic assessment.

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Uh, the students are involved in every aspect and every trade.

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Uh, but the students aren’t alone.

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Uh, we partner with local industry.

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Uh, as the business manager for the school district and as the superintendent for the school district, every year I had the opportunity to meet with our local contractors.

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And, uh, typically I would talk about some of the projects we had coming up, maybe the budget a little bit and the implications for tax levies.

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but every time towards the end, the hands would go up and they would say, “When are you gonna put a building trades program back in?” And I’d say, “Well, we kind of have a building trades program.”

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And they said, “Well, you’re talking about the one where they’re building the dog houses and they’re building the sheds.

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Mark, we need skilled people.

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We need electricians, plumbers, framers, carpet layers, roofers.

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We need skills.” And so over time, uh, as we started to look at, uh, the most recent bond issue, which was in 2020, we spent some time and we went out to not just the trades, but we went to every industry in the community.

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And we started talking about, uh, what the opportunities look like and what their needs look like.

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Um, a couple of takeaways from those experiences.

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We started by first bringing them in and we were gonna meet with them, and we found out that they had… They were too busy.

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Uh, they had so many different things going on.

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Uh, we’d get a last-minute cancellation.

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So, uh, myself, our local chamber of commerce, uh, president, and our local economic developer, along with a couple of our people from the high school and the district office, went out to over 42 businesses within the community, and we met on their turf.

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And it’s kind of hard to cancel when we’re showing up.

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And, and not that they wanted to cancel, they’re just busy people.

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what we found is they’re very proud of what they have going on within their facilities.

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They’re proud to show them off.

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Uh, we learned so much about our community and about our local industry that we had no idea.

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we have two very large truss manufacturers in Fremont.

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Uh, one that’s very labor intensive, one that’s almost fully automated.

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I had no idea.

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uh… We have three local packing plants.

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two that are very labor intensive, one, uh, that is very automated And so the needs that we thought initially, and that’s kind of how education has done it forever.

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We know better, we’re gonna teach the students, and then you’re gonna take them once we’re done with them.

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Well, what we found is that model had to flip, and we really need to engage local industry to identify, uh, what their needs are, uh- Wow … what skill sets their, their employees need.

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And then as we move forward, and we challenged them a little bit, it needed to be high wage, high skill, high demand type jobs, and really not just jobs, but career pathways.

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I think what we found was we got instant buy-in from local industry, and they were not shy at all.

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I mean, they shared with us what they need.

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They shared with us the skill sets that they need.

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Uh, they shared with us some of the shortcomings of some of our former students that they’ve hired.

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And, and it gave us, you know, a window into their life and into their reality that, uh, we could help problem solve.

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I think the flip side is we took that information, we went back and we surveyed our students.

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But before we surveyed our students, we had to do a lot of education for our students.

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Um, the best example I can give is, I remember when I was in high school and I was completing the, you know, what do you wanna be when you grow up type surveys.

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And I would meet with my guidance counselor after, and two years in a row she told me, “Well, Mark, you need to look at being an engineer.” Well, for the life of me, I couldn’t figure out why would I wanna go drive a train.

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Carla Cummins: Oh.

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Mark Shepard: And I mean, nobody had ever explained to me what an engineer is or what an engineer does.

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thankfully so, not that there’s anything wrong with engineering.

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Uh, probably would’ve had a much different career pathway, though, if I would’ve pursued engineering.

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but you know, that passion of working with your hands.

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You think about the skill set of an engineer, uh, I use that skill set every day or did when I was superintendent of schools or in the business side of the district.

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so we took all those conversations and then we pulled them together.

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Um, we identified seven pathways that we could incorporate into a facility.

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industry then helped us, uh, not only, uh, design the space, but also incorporate what types of learning the students needed and what types of specialty equipment we needed to involve into the, into the learning so the students would be prepared

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Carla Cummins: Okay.

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What do you think the, um, was there an aha moment?

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I mean, obviously, right, you talked about recognizing here we thought we had the answers because that’s what we do in education is we already know what

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Mark Shepard: All right

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Carla Cummins: it is, and we didn’t actually have the right answer.

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So there’s that aha moment.

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But was there one that really told you, this is the right– ’cause it’s a lot, right?

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Mark Shepard: Yeah, it’s a lot.

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Carla Cummins: to go into creating a different type of learning environment and learning spaces, especially in a bond,

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Mark Shepard: I think we had two, I would say two really big aha moments.

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And, uh, the first one was, when I taught shop, uh, quite a few years ago.

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I was down on the far end of the building.

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I always like to say it was dark, dingy, dirty.

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It smelled.

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It was loud in there.

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The students that were in there absolutely thrived.

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The students that weren’t in there didn’t even wanna know what was happening behind those closed doors.

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And so we decided, “Okay, we’ve gotta change that narrative.” we don’t want a student who, you know, on a survey would say they should be an architect, an engineer, uh,
an electrician, a plumber, or, you know, an EMT or some type of a med tech, and not know what that occupation looks like, not lo- know what that career ladder looks like.

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And so that was the first aha moment.

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We’ve gotta figure out a way to engage our students differently, to expose them to the opportunities differently.

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And then I think the second aha moment was we had worked with the citizens committee as we were presenting, uh, the bond issue and all the information shared with them.

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and we thought we would build it out on the edge of town, out in an industrial area, maybe as a future, uh, kind of seed site for another high school down the road.

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Uh, we’re a, a student body of about 15– 5,500 students, about a 1,700, uh, student high school.

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And so at some point we’ll need a second high school.

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So we thought, “Well, if we build it out there, that becomes the impetus for growth. That becomes the impetus for a second high school, and it’s a direct connect in local industry.”
our citizens group said, “No, that needs to be on your high school campus currently. That needs to be on display.” And so we took that information and really took it to heart.

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I will tell you, we challenged the architects, uh, because in this day of safety and security, which is so important, uh, we need a lot of glass in the facility.

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Because if we’re gonna change that narrative and we’re gonna move beyond the dark, dingy, dirty, smelly, loud, you know, nobody wants to know what’s going behind the closed doors, we’ve gotta open it up And so we did that.

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So, uh, we placed the facility right on the, uh, crossroads of our academics.

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Uh, you come down science and social studies wing, right there is CTE.

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You take a quick left and you go through CTE, that’s our athletic wing.

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That’s our commons.

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That’s where, uh, the cafeteria is.

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half the student body enters through those doors as their entrance into the building every day.

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students that are juniors and seniors and that are gonna have workplace experiences go through that space multiple times throughout the day.

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Um, when we have athletic contests, parents are coming through that space and they’re seeing a house being built over on the left, and on the right there’s all this automation robotics.

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Oh, here’s some cars up on a lift.

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Uh, there’s… I don’t know what’s going on there, but there’s a lot of flashes in the welding area.

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And then they get down the hall and they turn the corner and here’s a, what looks like a triage unit of a hospital, and that’s our, you know, health occupations area.

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So there’s just so many examples of where those aha moments came based on the feedback we received from the parents, the feedback we received from our local community, and how do we put this on display?

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Because if we’re gonna change the narrative, we truly have to expose students to something they’ve not been exposed to in the past

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Carla Cummins: Well, and you think too, by changing that and making it, something different, right?

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Because our kids are really driven by different things currently.

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And in a sense, not to, not to make it sound strange, but you almost have to make those experiences and that the desired career outcomes a little bit sexy to them.

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Like, this is gonna be a good thing, and you’re really trying to appeal to them in a different way.

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So, but to be able to have parents see that as well, I mean, I think that that was a beautiful, decision on

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Mark Shepard: Yeah, there’s no doubt about it.

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The education of the students was important, and the education of the parents was equally important because, you know, parents need to be
able to be in a position where they can, uh, share with their students, “This is kind of the direction that, uh, we see your life going.

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Here’s some opportunities that you should consider.

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four-year school is not where you’re headed, that’s great.

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let’s get into a career pathway that has a real future, uh, for you and, not a dead end.” I like to say it, it’s a means to a beginning, not a means to an end.

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And, and we’ve truly, we’ve seen that time and time again

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Carla Cummins: Yeah.

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And I think too, that gives, kids the opportunity to feel some successes, right?

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Because going into something, especially as young as our kids are now, there’s just a fear of failure.

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And so that fear of failure creates barriers in what to expect.

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So being able to expose them to something earlier on is really, is really good, and it gives them some early success.

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So question, now working on the side of, the A&D side, right?

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And having gone through that portion with the community of determining that that needed to be attached to the physical high school versus being somewhere else.

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I mean, obviously that made probably a difference for the district when it comes to transportation and things like that.

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But how do you, look at the design approach and how it evolved with the changes in teaching and learning?

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So on the academic side, does it connect differently with the CTE side, or did the school have to make certain accommodations,

00:17:47.598 –> 00:18:00.138
Mark Shepard: So I, so I think the biggest challenge that we had initially was we had to kinda identify, number one, what the programming was gonna look like, and that was based on going out to the community and really identifying the need.

00:18:00.638 –> 00:18:03.258
Uh, again, high wage, high skill, high demand.

00:18:03.501 –> 00:18:12.652
and then working with our partner, which was our local community college, Metropolitan Community College, and identifying, how are we gonna pull this off?

00:18:12.876 –> 00:18:14.496
whose curriculum are we gonna use?

00:18:14.516 –> 00:18:15.686
Who’s gonna pay for what?

00:18:16.003 –> 00:18:19.291
Are the instructors our instructors, or are they, college instructors?

00:18:19.831 –> 00:18:36.913
Um, I can tell you early on in the process, we had a model that we followed that we had incorporated into a welding program, uh, about 11
years ago now, where we spent a lot of time not arguing, but discussing, uh, pretty intently, uh, those discussions and those questions.

00:18:36.973 –> 00:18:50.539
And, the interesting thing was in that process, we got into the welding business, I guess I would say, with a local manufacturer who came to us and said, “We need welders.” Uh, it’s Valmont, uh, is the corporation.

00:18:50.619 –> 00:18:59.006
Uh, they’re a large, international company, uh, that creates center pivots, and they also create light poles, and so they need a lot of welders.

00:18:59.106 –> 00:19:05.445
And so the center pivots for irrigation, very, you know, prevalent in my neck of the woods here in the Midwest.

00:19:05.825 –> 00:19:14.025
Uh, but it’s interesting, I, I’ve seen their, uh, center pivots all the way across the world as I’ve traveled, uh, at times even into Europe.

00:19:14.181 –> 00:19:26.301
so we had them at the table with us, and I can remember we’d argue back and forth, and then all of a sudden the laptop lid would go down, and the VP for HR from Valmont would say, “Guys, you don’t understand.

00:19:26.301 –> 00:19:27.181
I need welders.

00:19:27.741 –> 00:19:40.382
I need 86 welders today.” It caught us a little bit off guard the first time it happened, but we got down to brass tacks, and we started to problem solve differently, uh, because we had that industry partner who was really driving it.

00:19:40.930 –> 00:19:56.869
beyond that, once we identified what the programming was gonna look like, we identified who was gonna pay for what, and how we were gonna, you
know, teach the curriculum, then we started to really look at, okay, how can we create a space that’s gonna help us deliver that curriculum?

00:19:57.317 –> 00:19:57.327
Carla Cummins: Mm-hmm.

00:19:57.559 –> 00:20:06.389
Mark Shepard: Um, because we had all these little chopped up spaces on the other end of the building that was that dark, dingy, dirty lab, and we knew we wanted it to be nothing like that.

00:20:06.999 –> 00:20:11.359
Um, so we have a wide hallway as you come down in through that facility.

00:20:11.829 –> 00:20:19.409
Um, I already mentioned it’s at the crossroads of the building with multiple access points for people to be exposed to what’s happening in that space.

00:20:19.660 –> 00:20:21.800
a lot of glass into the classroom.

00:20:22.320 –> 00:20:23.900
Uh, very durable finishes.

00:20:23.930 –> 00:20:27.200
You know, a lot of these areas I, I think we like to refer to them, we have two.

00:20:27.380 –> 00:20:29.550
One side of the hallway are big box labs.

00:20:29.791 –> 00:20:31.391
I always refer to them as dirty labs.

00:20:31.391 –> 00:20:32.391
Nobody liked that term.

00:20:32.871 –> 00:20:34.271
Uh, and they’re not dirty.

00:20:34.271 –> 00:20:38.621
I mean, it’s like going into the back end of a, a new car dealership service bay.

00:20:38.671 –> 00:20:39.821
It’s anything but dirty.

00:20:39.821 –> 00:20:40.821
I mean, it’s very clean.

00:20:41.242 –> 00:20:44.902
but they’re big, large spaces, uh, big boxes.

00:20:45.302 –> 00:20:53.899
On the other side of the lab are the more the technical areas, so, the drafting, the automation, the robotics, and, uh, the health occupations.

00:20:54.199 –> 00:20:57.949
And so those spaces are more the clean labs or the smaller labs.

00:20:58.369 –> 00:21:06.429
Uh, but one thing that we really tried to be intentional about is let’s design them with so that they’re very durable, so that we don’t have a bunch of scuffs on the wall.

00:21:06.439 –> 00:21:09.639
We don’t have, you know, things that we have to maintain.

00:21:10.001 –> 00:21:13.151
and then secondly, they’ve gotta be flexible.

00:21:13.471 –> 00:21:33.609
And not just flexible from the standpoint of, you know, flexible learning, but also flexible from the standpoint of if five years from now, 10 years from
now, local industry no longer needs that particular skill set, then we can retool that lab over a summer and very easily, uh, incorporate, uh, a new program

00:21:38.968 –> 00:21:43.748
You know, when we work with schools at K12, it’s not just about furniture or design, it’s about impact.

00:21:43.988 –> 00:21:48.158
Our radically student-centered approach puts students at the center of every decision.

00:21:48.468 –> 00:21:56.548
From that first conversation to the final walkthrough, we’re focused on creating spaces that actually work for the kids, the teachers, and the community.

00:21:56.828 –> 00:22:00.598
So if you’re looking to do more than just check a box on your next project, let’s talk.

00:22:00.848 –> 00:22:10.818
Visit k12.com, that’s K-A-Y-T-W-E-L-V-E.com, and see how we’re helping schools transform learning one student at a time.

00:22:11.158 –> 00:22:15.198
Because at K12, it’s not just about projects and furniture, it’s about purpose

00:22:20.723 –> 00:22:29.103
Carla Cummins: So when you look at your transition from going into a school district to an A&D firm, now tell me exactly for BVH what specifically you do

00:22:30.147 –> 00:22:50.526
Mark Shepard: So a large part of what I do is work directly with the superintendent and board of education and then local community members, to help them first and foremost identify
their needs, uh, work with the teaching staff to identify, uh, how their buildings currently support learning and maybe what hinders learning, within the structure of the building.

00:22:50.745 –> 00:23:03.839
uh, because of my background on the business side, I spend a lot of time, with them also evaluating their budget, evaluating the opportunity for, you know, funding that could support, uh, a future project or projects.

00:23:04.048 –> 00:23:16.371
and then going out and working with the community to help inform the community and educate the community, uh, so that when it’s all said and done, it’s not a question of if the bond issue will pass, it’s a question of when.

00:23:16.941 –> 00:23:19.021
And the when is not something we decide.

00:23:19.161 –> 00:23:27.461
I think that’s a mistake that some- uh, sometimes happens, where you back into it by, “We’re gonna go on this date, and this is the dollar amount ’cause that’s what we can afford.

00:23:27.761 –> 00:23:33.861
Now what are we gonna build?” I think it’s more along the lines of, “Here’s the need,” a little bit like we did with our CTE center.

00:23:34.301 –> 00:23:42.901
“Here’s some of solutions that can help solve that need,” and then let’s bring the community along and get them to a point where they, uh, buy in.

00:23:43.065 –> 00:23:46.195
and just like our experience where we, we thought we knew best.

00:23:46.195 –> 00:23:53.445
We were gonna put it out on the edge of town, future development, future growth, and the community group in Fremont said, “No, it needs to be right here.”

00:23:53.975 –> 00:23:56.265
And it was the right decision, 100%.

00:23:56.841 –> 00:23:57.221
Carla Cummins: Yeah.

00:23:57.721 –> 00:24:00.661
So when you say we, wh- which we are you talking about?

00:24:00.731 –> 00:24:05.821
Are you talking about architects making that decision, or are you– is your we hat still the school district side?

00:24:05.841 –> 00:24:06.481
Which one is it?

00:24:06.887 –> 00:24:10.327
Mark Shepard: Well, sometimes I get caught in the middle on that, uh,

00:24:10.825 –> 00:24:14.045
Carla Cummins: ‘Cause I think I had two E’s in that co- in that statement

00:24:14.441 –> 00:24:15.481
Mark Shepard: Yeah, it’s been interesting.

00:24:15.481 –> 00:24:22.120
One of our, uh, local school board association trade shows, one of my first opportunities, to be seen in a different light.

00:24:22.120 –> 00:24:28.600
You see I’m wearing their, their gear and, uh, architects don’t always wear gear I get, but– or I guess.

00:24:28.620 –> 00:24:35.090
But, for me, it was important because my colleagues, my former colleagues, friends, people needed to see me in a different light.

00:24:35.230 –> 00:24:36.790
They all knew I was doing something different.

00:24:36.810 –> 00:24:38.280
They didn’t know exactly what it was.

00:24:38.611 –> 00:24:45.431
and so, uh, I made the mistake maybe, I guess, at one of those, uh, early trade shows of saying…

00:24:45.621 –> 00:24:47.121
You know, they said, “Well, what, what’s it like?

00:24:47.131 –> 00:24:59.056
Is it different or how different is it?” And I said, “Well, it’s kinda like not work.” one of my, my bosses heard me say that, and they’re like, “Uh, we need to probably talk a little bit about that.” And we had a good, fun conversation.

00:24:59.237 –> 00:25:00.547
but for me it’s so different.

00:25:00.647 –> 00:25:04.107
I’m engaged in, in exactly what I wanna be engaged in.

00:25:04.517 –> 00:25:19.857
Uh, it’s allowed me to take my career and my career pathway and, and push it back towards where I started, uh, as that teacher, uh, as that educator, uh, working with individuals and seeing them maximize their potential.

00:25:20.014 –> 00:25:24.584
I think the, the proof’s in the pudding, which, which is so much fun to experience.

00:25:24.614 –> 00:25:32.324
Uh, the first year when we completed the CTE center and we, we finished up the, the project, we had a house that was built.

00:25:32.814 –> 00:25:38.764
Uh, we had a student who went to work directly for an electrician about three weeks into the course.

00:25:39.114 –> 00:25:41.374
Another student who got hired by the local plumber.

00:25:41.374 –> 00:25:46.392
We had another student who got hired by, a concrete, foundations, footings company.

00:25:46.832 –> 00:25:51.642
Uh, we had another student who got hired by the HVAC company, all that worked on that, house.

00:25:51.702 –> 00:25:54.112
And so that’s what we heard from those people.

00:25:54.122 –> 00:25:58.672
“We need employees. We need skilled employees.” And they were putting their money where their mouth was.

00:25:58.934 –> 00:26:05.243
then we had six students who got hired by one of the two, structural, truss manufacturers.

00:26:05.693 –> 00:26:09.873
And it’s interesting, uh, the six students were first-generation Americans.

00:26:10.303 –> 00:26:15.560
Uh, the six students were bilingual, they got hired because they need line supervisors.

00:26:15.610 –> 00:26:17.720
They need line supervisors that are bilingual.

00:26:18.010 –> 00:26:29.060
And one of the students, I remember at the interview when we do a signing, just like we do for our athletic scholarships, and it’s a big deal because these are life-changing decisions these kids are making.

00:26:29.390 –> 00:26:32.940
And so they go up on the stage and in the background’s their picture.

00:26:33.240 –> 00:26:35.560
They’re wearing the gear for the company they’re gonna work f- with.

00:26:35.970 –> 00:26:44.080
And, uh, one of the students afterwards was being interviewed by lo- one of the local papers, and he said, “My dad works on the line there. I might be his supervisor someday.”

00:26:44.530 –> 00:26:46.040
Which I thought was super cool

00:26:46.406 –> 00:26:46.806
Carla Cummins: Mm-hmm.

00:26:47.276 –> 00:26:56.286
Well, and you think about the opportunities that the district is able to give those kids, but it’s not just, you know, geographically in Nebraska.

00:26:56.306 –> 00:26:58.626
They could, in theory, go anywhere.

00:26:58.636 –> 00:27:17.576
Very similarly, my son with electrical, you know, it’s like, well, they’ll need linemen and they’ll need electricians, and there’s certain timeframes and certain environments
where you’re able to go and travel and be able to make a higher salary and to be able to provide differently than I think anybody ever expects them to be able to.

00:27:17.886 –> 00:27:24.456
Mark Shepard: you know, one of the, one of the best examples of that that I can give and, and the fact that it is, it’s a means to a beginning.

00:27:24.703 –> 00:27:31.743
one of our students in the welding program, uh, she was state champion SkillsUSA, did really well at nationals as well.

00:27:32.234 –> 00:27:38.714
she’s now at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln on a full-ride scholarship, and she’s gonna be a structural engineer.

00:27:39.434 –> 00:27:47.224
And when you think about it, it really, and no pun intended, the interest was sparked when she was in that welding class.

00:27:47.374 –> 00:27:49.444
She had never thought about that previously

00:27:49.706 –> 00:27:50.766
Carla Cummins: say no pun intended.

00:27:50.766 –> 00:27:52.176
That was a very good one.

00:27:52.688 –> 00:27:53.288
Mark Shepard: That’s a good one.

00:27:53.878 –> 00:28:00.997
You know, but, but the, the bottom line for her is it did, it, created an interest that maybe she didn’t have in the past.

00:28:01.317 –> 00:28:05.287
I always go back to my career path and I think about the people that influenced me.

00:28:05.667 –> 00:28:11.897
Obviously my parents, uh, my dad being in education, my mom being so supportive of us as educators.

00:28:12.237 –> 00:28:20.287
But I had a shop teacher very early on in seventh grade that really tweaked my interest, and then I took every shop class I could take all the way through.

00:28:20.665 –> 00:28:30.575
beyond that, when I moved into administration, I had some mentors, uh, that I just looked at and I thought, “Man, someday I hope I can do what they’re doing at some degree.”

00:28:30.715 –> 00:28:38.405
You know, they were amazing people and, and were able to really convey the business side of a school district to the community.

00:28:38.775 –> 00:28:47.574
And, uh, over time, I think I developed some skills in that area and, now I’m using tho- all those skills and all those experiences, uh, with BVH

00:28:48.140 –> 00:28:48.500
Carla Cummins: Yeah.

00:28:48.580 –> 00:28:50.070
Those unknown mentors, right?

00:28:50.110 –> 00:28:53.827
That you just, you never know when they’re gonna come in and guide you in a certain way.

00:28:53.827 –> 00:29:09.357
But I think too, in, in talking about the, the girl that went on to, you know, go into structural engineering, you know, I talked a little bit before about
confidence, and there’s something to be said about our students’ ability to be confident that they’re making the right decision going on to their next path.

00:29:09.367 –> 00:29:22.407
So that spark may have started in that, that welding lab, but the reality is, is that that welding lab gave her the ability to just build the confidence and know that she’s h- she’s highly capable of achieving something different as well.

00:29:22.407 –> 00:29:26.737
And so whether or not it was the lab, whether or not it was the teacher, whatever it was, it was within that,

00:29:27.233 –> 00:29:28.483
Mark Shepard: I think you’re absolutely right.

00:29:28.743 –> 00:29:35.706
And, you know, as a superintendent of schools, I had an opportunity to participate in a lot of, very well put together professional development.

00:29:35.836 –> 00:29:44.876
And we spent some time with Gallup, and Gallup shared information during one of our summer sessions with a group of superintendents about job satisfaction.

00:29:44.896 –> 00:29:51.004
This was on the heels of COVID and when, you know, people were exiting education, in droves.

00:29:51.454 –> 00:29:54.434
And they talked about satisfaction.

00:29:54.654 –> 00:30:04.783
And, they , gave us some statistics about where, you know, different occupations, different career paths fit on that job satisfaction uh, continuum.

00:30:05.273 –> 00:30:14.483
And one of the highest areas of job satisfaction, which blew me away at first and then made total sense once I thought about it, was construction.

00:30:16.373 –> 00:30:22.613
And I said– I raised my hand immediately when it came up, and this was before we had started to develop the programming that we developed.

00:30:23.003 –> 00:30:25.473
And, and I said, “Tell me more about that.

00:30:25.473 –> 00:30:35.893
Why would that be?” And they said, “Well, have you ever been on a job site?” And I said, “Yeah, actually, we’re in the middle of some construction stuff right now.” And they said, “Well, think about the guys that have the hard hat on.

00:30:35.893 –> 00:30:40.643
And the hard hat, on the side of it, they have their, their favorite sports team.

00:30:41.253 –> 00:30:46.733
You know, their hard hat looks like a football helmet, um, or whatever, baseball helmet.”

00:30:47.137 –> 00:30:50.047
he said that they get to work every day with their hands.

00:30:50.306 –> 00:30:57.166
As they’re going down the pathway, they can turn around and see exactly what they accomplished for the day, for the week, for the month, for the year.

00:30:57.776 –> 00:30:58.936
They’re building something.

00:30:59.446 –> 00:31:02.526
And at the end of the day, guess what time it is?

00:31:03.516 –> 00:31:04.336
It’s Miller time.

00:31:05.278 –> 00:31:05.458
Carla Cummins: Time to go home.

00:31:05.586 –> 00:31:09.726
Mark Shepard: They go, and they aren’t thinking about work till the next day when they come back.

00:31:10.286 –> 00:31:13.016
And it’s not necessarily Miller time, but it’s family time.

00:31:13.016 –> 00:31:13.296
It’s,

00:31:13.738 –> 00:31:14.588
Carla Cummins: Yeah, it’s their time

00:31:15.006 –> 00:31:15.826
Mark Shepard: It’s their time.

00:31:15.986 –> 00:31:19.956
And I think about my, 39 years in education.

00:31:20.406 –> 00:31:24.516
I’m not sure I had that much me time, uh, ’cause a lot of it is you just carry it with you.

00:31:25.026 –> 00:31:28.956
And you’re working with students, you’re working with families, uh, you’re problem-solving.

00:31:29.147 –> 00:31:37.647
truly, that resonated with me, and I thought about it from the perspective of when we started to develop these programs, and we started to look at what the needs were within the community.

00:31:37.783 –> 00:31:44.703
we’re creating a lot of opportunities for students that can be high wage, high skill, and high demand, but also a lot of job satisfaction

00:31:44.925 –> 00:31:45.365
Carla Cummins: Well, and you–

00:31:48.395 –> 00:31:48.415
the

00:31:50.965 –> 00:31:51.155
work is very tangible too.

00:31:51.155 –> 00:31:51.745
You know, it’s not anything that’s… I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of work.

00:31:51.755 –> 00:31:57.575
My partner’s in construction, and he just recently went into leadership, and he’s like, “It’s vastly different being on

00:31:57.655 –> 00:31:58.105
Mark Shepard: Oh, sure

00:31:58.375 –> 00:32:01.825
Carla Cummins: side versus the trade side.” And it’s like, well, what’s more rewarding?

00:32:01.825 –> 00:32:04.637
And it’s sort of in, in what context do you mean?

00:32:04.637 –> 00:32:08.907
And so I think it just, it varies by person and by role for sure.

00:32:09.247 –> 00:32:12.667
Well, walking away from the conversation today, I think that there’s two things.

00:32:12.667 –> 00:32:23.984
What has been, taking off the Fremont hat, right, putting on the BVH hat, what has been, um, the re- most rewarding portion of, a career change for you?

00:32:24.004 –> 00:32:31.374
‘Cause obviously you’re still aligned with what you’re passionate about, which clearly education is a passion for you considering your path.

00:32:31.374 –> 00:32:36.004
So what, um, what has been the most exciting part of your last-

00:32:36.652 –> 00:32:45.554
Mark Shepard: I think the most exciting and challenging part has been to make that transition and begin to look at, even education from a different lens.

00:32:45.704 –> 00:32:52.244
Um, one thing that I– that really drew me to BVH is just the fact that they absolutely listen.

00:32:52.658 –> 00:32:57.645
and that’s so important, uh, because at the end of the day, you don’t want a cookie-cutter building.

00:32:57.765 –> 00:32:59.155
You don’t want a cookie-cutter program.

00:32:59.165 –> 00:33:03.715
You want a program that reflects the local school district, the local community.

00:33:04.028 –> 00:33:11.823
whether it’s the finishes, whether it’s the building design, you know, you don’t wanna drive from one community to the next and say, “Well, that looks just like our school.”

00:33:11.903 –> 00:33:15.253
It shouldn’t, because if that’s the case, it doesn’t reflect your community.

00:33:15.783 –> 00:33:19.531
Um, so that’s, that’s been a real, learning, I guess I would say.

00:33:19.891 –> 00:33:25.082
I think the other part of the learning would be just the, learning the business side of architecture.

00:33:25.586 –> 00:33:46.128
I didn’t understand what all it takes, uh, to get to a point where you can, uh, have a design, uh, have something to react to for the client, put together a budget
based on that, and then start to work with, uh, the client, work with the community to identify if that’s not meeting your needs, what do we need to do to adjust?

00:33:46.288 –> 00:33:49.438
And, uh, that part of it’s been very rewarding.

00:33:49.824 –> 00:33:55.504
you know, I, I like to say I, I leave board meetings and they’re a-thanking me for being there and asking me when I’m coming back.

00:33:55.594 –> 00:33:56.124
And

00:33:56.506 –> 00:33:57.086
Carla Cummins: Oh, that’s good then.

00:33:57.126 –> 00:33:59.966
You’re like, it’s not like you’re leaving going, “I don’t wanna be here next month.”

00:34:00.406 –> 00:34:01.086
Mark Shepard: No, no.

00:34:01.086 –> 00:34:03.580
And I never had that, feeling when I was superintendent

00:34:03.866 –> 00:34:04.556
Carla Cummins: Oh, that’s good then.

00:34:04.640 –> 00:34:06.010
Mark Shepard: yeah, I enjoyed every minute of it.

00:34:06.060 –> 00:34:13.530
But, but it, it’s just a different perspective, and, uh, I think it allows for a broader impact.

00:34:13.607 –> 00:34:16.482
with our three studios, they have me engaged with all three.

00:34:16.902 –> 00:34:18.322
Uh, I’ve been out in the Denver area.

00:34:18.322 –> 00:34:20.402
I’m kinda learning that Colorado market a little bit.

00:34:20.718 –> 00:34:31.388
been in the Omaha area, which is very cl- I– we live about halfway between or, like, the point of a triangle from Lincoln and Omaha, so, uh, I’m in both of those studios on a regular basis.

00:34:31.728 –> 00:34:40.266
And then, you know, working with a number of different communities, whereas my reach in the past was kinda confined to the district I was part of

00:34:40.916 –> 00:34:41.176
Carla Cummins: Right.

00:34:41.676 –> 00:34:46.016
So what’s one takeaway you’d want listeners to remember about being radically student-centered?

00:34:46.036 –> 00:34:48.686
You could do this by two lenses too, right?

00:34:48.686 –> 00:34:55.206
Like, you could talk about it from the school side just because it’s, it’s not that far removed from you, and from the architectural side

00:34:56.268 –> 00:35:07.058
Mark Shepard: Yeah, I, I think the, the bottom line is, uh, we can create the best programs in the world, but if we don’t have students that are interested in taking them, uh, then we haven’t really accomplished anything.

00:35:07.258 –> 00:35:10.518
And, uh, so you’ve gotta listen to the students.

00:35:10.578 –> 00:35:16.898
You’ve gotta educate them first, survey them, uh, spend time with them so that you really understand their interests.

00:35:16.948 –> 00:35:25.178
And not just them, but also their parents, their families, uh, so that they really do, uh, begin to look at that narrative differently.

00:35:25.553 –> 00:35:35.363
when a parent is talking about their student– When you talked about your student at the beginning of the show, uh, or the podcast, uh, I saw you light up a little bit about your son being an electrician, and you should.

00:35:35.843 –> 00:35:37.823
That’s an awesome career pathway.

00:35:37.889 –> 00:35:50.139
one thing I didn’t mention when we would have those meetings and the, the local contractors would say, “We really need tradespeople.” And then he– this one gentleman in particular, he did it three times in a row, three years in a row.

00:35:50.449 –> 00:35:52.219
He would say, “I wanna show of hands.

00:35:52.219 –> 00:36:03.719
How many of you started in the building trades program at Fremont?” And these were all the business owners in the community, and I would say over three-fourths of the hands went up, because that’s what created that interest.

00:36:03.809 –> 00:36:17.279
So I, I think from the school side, from the educator side, we need to listen to our local communities, we need to listen to our students, and then, and then really create programs that are gonna meet them where they are and take them to that next level.

00:36:17.509 –> 00:36:23.643
I think from the design perspective, from the BVH perspective, you know, again, listening’s so important to the client.

00:36:24.011 –> 00:36:36.555
not having the solutions or all the solutions, but bringing the solutions, reacting to their feedback, getting their feedback, honoring their feedback, and then incorporating that into the design.

00:36:37.169 –> 00:36:40.929
you know, you’ll see that on display if you ever get a chance and you’re in Fremont, Nebraska.

00:36:40.929 –> 00:36:44.149
I’d love to give you a tour of our facility, uh, here.

00:36:44.579 –> 00:36:49.802
Um, and I still live in the community, but, you know, it’s literally changing lives every day

00:36:50.600 –> 00:36:51.030
Carla Cummins: Mm-hmm.

00:36:51.530 –> 00:37:14.130
Well, and I think there’s, there’s something to be said because walking into projects and knowing, right, on the school side when you were with the district is, is that you’re leaving a legacy in that
community, but not just in terms of like the school and the students that are coming in, but even further into the community by creating people who are going to run and own and manage and work within it.

00:37:14.560 –> 00:37:20.830
So the legacy reach is, is vastly different than just, you know, the standard traditional, you know, educational

00:37:21.160 –> 00:37:21.700
space.

00:37:21.788 –> 00:37:27.498
Mark Shepard: and, and when you think about it on the design firm side, that’s the legacy they’re leaving in all these communities.

00:37:27.498 –> 00:37:37.858
That’s, that’s the mark they’re helping put on that community because, you know, it’s no big secret, 50 to 75 years the school district’s gonna utilize that facility.

00:37:38.018 –> 00:37:51.308
And if it’s designed well, uh, if it’s designed with an eye to the future, which is so important, if it’s designed with durable finishes, finishes that have stood the test of time, it makes such a difference.

00:37:51.413 –> 00:37:53.267
you know, the learning environment has really changed.

00:37:53.267 –> 00:38:03.737
Uh, COVID jumped us forward leaps and bounds about indoor air quality, um, about air turnover, and things that we really didn’t think that much about in the past.

00:38:03.847 –> 00:38:13.234
And in a very positive way, it, it really helped us to, to move forward and, place some emphasis maybe where it hadn’t been placed in the past

00:38:14.062 –> 00:38:14.752
Carla Cummins: Absolutely.

00:38:14.752 –> 00:38:25.127
Well, closing, what is, in looking at the future, what is the project or thing you’re looking most forward to?

00:38:25.594 –> 00:38:33.707
Mark Shepard: we, we have a number of, uh, opportunities to help communities over the next probably two years, with some of the work that we’re engaged in currently.

00:38:34.097 –> 00:38:37.077
Uh, we’re at various stages of that process.

00:38:37.077 –> 00:38:43.057
Some we’ve just finished up the evaluation of their buildings and received the feedback from staff.

00:38:43.233 –> 00:38:47.193
now we’re starting to work with– in some of them we’re starting to work with community groups.

00:38:47.369 –> 00:38:54.478
and, probably about a year from now, hopefully we have some real positive outcomes at the poll.

00:38:54.798 –> 00:39:04.806
Uh, because just like many states in Nebraska, the only way you can really accomplish much in a school facility, program is you have to get a vote of the public.

00:39:04.906 –> 00:39:16.683
And, part of that is education, part of that is listening and reacting and, and really developing programming that, that they can support, uh, at a level they can support it and afford it.

00:39:16.743 –> 00:39:20.107
So I think for me, Hopefully we pass them all.

00:39:20.317 –> 00:39:21.637
Uh, that’s the goal.

00:39:21.765 –> 00:39:35.955
but you have to go slow to go fast, and you need to bring people along and, and I think that’s been part of what I’ve been able to bring to
BVH and part of what, uh, intrigued me about BVH, ’cause I was part of that process on the other side of the table, uh, for three bond issues

00:39:37.033 –> 00:39:37.663
Carla Cummins: It’s exciting.

00:39:37.743 –> 00:39:38.313
That’s exciting.

00:39:38.313 –> 00:39:39.543
Well, thank you so much, Mark.

00:39:39.543 –> 00:39:42.833
I think, um, thank you for spending time with us today.

00:39:42.833 –> 00:39:48.523
I know that every conversation leaves us with something to think about, so, uh, obviously today is no exception.

00:39:48.523 –> 00:39:57.667
And as we talk about, you know, your experience in that CTE realm and what education looks like in the future for our students, it’s definitely something that we can continue to talk about.

00:39:57.667 –> 00:40:11.317
So thank you to everyone who listens, and thank you for joining us for another episode of the “Better Learning Podcast.” So if you’ve enjoyed
today’s conversation, please download the “Better Learning Podcast” and follow us on any of the applications that you tend to listen to.

00:40:11.727 –> 00:40:18.627
And until next time, just keep asking better questions and building stronger partnerships, and like we say, just keep creating better learning spaces.

00:40:21.778 –> 00:40:26.238
The Better Learning Podcast is produced by Matt Rogers and edited by Kelly Jones.

00:40:26.918 –> 00:40:36.288
The views and opinions shared on this podcast are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily represent the perspectives of their affiliated companies, organizations, or associations