Read Transcript:

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Matt Rogers: Welcome back to the Better Learning Podcast.

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I’m your host today, Matt Rogers, and today we are focusing in on a topic, that is reshaping how we view, school campuses.

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And joining us today is Dr. Sharon Bradley.

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Sharon is in the Washington, DC area, the founder and principal of Bradley Site Design, with four decades of experience as a landscape architect and civil engineer.

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Sharon, I’m gonna let you, dive in, into a little bit about your background, what, what kinda got you here, into the educational design space in the first place.

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So Sharon, welcome.

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Sharon Bradley: Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Really excited to be here.

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well, as you said, I’ve been in the field for 40 years plus and, um, started my firm with a focus on communities and really having impacts where people live.

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Um, and of course, there’s nothing more integral to communities than their schools or our neighborhood schools.

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And so it quickly became obvious that you can’t have a meaningful impact in communities without also including the schools and that learning experience and affecting students’ first, , awareness
of themselves as learners and, also acknowledging the importance of schools as, important community amenities because, as we know, they’re embedded in communities and become part of the community.

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So, how we design those, how we design those campuses, is cr- really critical to the health and vitality of a neighborhood

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Matt Rogers: yeah, thanks for sharing that.

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And I, I always love to kind of hear like where your journey started to like where you kind of came to this passion or realization of that.

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How did that kind of come about for you and, and how did you kind of venture down this path, to even begin with?

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Sharon Bradley: Well, I mean, we can go way back to my childhood because I’ve spent some formative years in Yorkshire, in England, and
really the, the countryside, the English countryside was my playground, and it was where I learned, and it’s where I went on hikes and walks.

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And having that immersive experience, I really experienced firsthand that those concepts of Reggio Emilia and this idea of environment
as teacher, and it really profoundly, influenced me and, and how I saw the world and my career and what I wanted to do in the world.

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And so that really did influence me as a landscape architect.

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And so very quickly, I wanted to impart what I learned and my experiences to another generation.

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And of course, the best way to do that is in campus, campus design.

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And, uh, starting in a broader landscape architecture context, um, I zeroed in pretty quickly on educational campuses as an important place to bring these ideas of environment as teachers to life

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Matt Rogers: Oh, that’s, that’s amazing.

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Well, and it’s, it’s always incredible to see, like, how those childhood experiences always kind of play into how we end up and where we end up going.

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Um, even for myself, like I, I, I look at this and, educational design as a, as a child actually was never really where I saw myself, but it really connected deeply with me when I got to, like the college setting of just like the gap, there.

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And so, um, without that experience as a kid of, of being able to see that gap, I don’t know if I would’ve ended up in this, in this field, in this industry.

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So, I- it’s always interesting.

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I’m, I’m so glad to hear, that you had that experience and that you’re, you’re now playing a significant part in the ed- educational design community, as you mentioned.

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So,

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So you started Bradley Site Design, I don’t even know, uh, how, how long ago was that,

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Sharon Bradley: 30, almost 33 years ago.

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Well, 30, 32 years ago, yes

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Matt Rogers: years ago.

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Okay.

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And, I’m assuming you had, I, I’m not sure how much time in the industry before that, um, but like

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Sharon Bradley: years, 10

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Matt Rogers: 10 years?

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Okay.

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So I guess I’d love to even maybe hear just kind of like what sparked you to kind of venturing on your own, if, if there was, you know, things that you wanted to see differently from even where you were at maybe in like the corporate world.

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Sharon Bradley: I had been working at Oehme, Van Sweden, which is very, very, um, high-end design for very high-end projects and almost no budget projects.

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And that made me want to shift to, to bring quality design and healing landscapes to a broader cross-section of people, and that led me into community design, which then led me directly to schools.

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uh, I think a simpler version, is that story of, um, of starting with, an internationally known, very glamorous landscape architecture firm, and then glimpsing an
opportunity to take all of the benefits that, that, that firm could bring to their more limited environments and bring them to a broader, audience, broader set of recipients.

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And we did one community project, one rare underserved community project with Oehme, Van Sweden, and, um, I was so excited by that ’cause I, I felt like we were giving more people more, help.

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You know, we could have a greater impact for more people who needed it.

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so that made me decide to go out on my own and focus on, some of the most, under-resourced communities out there in the most urban settings out there, um, and their schools.

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You know, these kids, these kids in these neighborhoods deserve the best schools just like everybody else.

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And so how do we, how do we do that?

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How do we, how do we use almost no dollars and make it amazing?

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So that’s, that’s the professional path

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Matt Rogers: That’s, that’s amazing.

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Well, thank you for sharing that.

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I, and, and now

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across your 40 years in landscape architecture and civil engineering, you focused heavily on the intersection of ecology, design, and education, I
guess, what, what first drew you to treating the outdoor campus not just as site work, but, but as a core teaching tool, in your design practice?

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Sharon Bradley: Was– it’s not only those childhood experiences, it was also observing the 21st Century Schools movement and, and how, impactful and transformative that movement has been to the architecture, of our schools.

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But it wasn’t making its way to the sites.

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And so you’d have these incredibly inspiring school buildings and these fabulously, exciting interiors.

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but our campuses were still just vast expanses of lawn with nothing, with nothing to engage students and no reason to draw people outside, whether it’s y- the educators or the students themselves.

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And so I, I saw a real gap there.

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And so it became really important to me to start activating our school sites as teaching tools because, there are so many opportunities to do that.

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And so to, to fail to, uh, engage and activate our school campuses is just so many missed opportunities, uh, uh, opportunities that are so important to our students

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Matt Rogers: Yeah.

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and I’ll be honest, uh, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna kind of call out… Like, I live in the Columbus, Ohio area, and there’s a lot of
schools even here where I, I recognize that there are those gaps where it’s very apparent that, that there’s a missed opportunity there.

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so I guess I’ll ask you, um, you know, you’ve mentioned that every part of the outdoor campus offers both passive and active learning opportunities.

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I guess for an educator or a district leader, you know, that might be going through, um, you know, a renovation or have recently gone
through one, how would you, in your own terms, distinguish between a passive outdoor learning space and an active one, for their own sake?

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Sharon Bradley: So the way we integrate these teaching and learning opportunities is to take the things that we have to do anyway.

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What are the permit requirements like stormwater management, like managing topography with retaining walls, and how do we turn those into learning opportunities?

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And sometimes it’s very intentional and active, like creating an outdoor space using the retaining walls.

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and sometimes it’s passive.

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If we are immersing our students and our educators in swaths of native plantings, for example.

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So you’re seizing… You’re seeing those seasonal rhythms go through and what changes those plants go through.

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Um, but you’re also seeing those ephemeral, qualities, the, the birds that come and go, the butterflies, the beneficial insects.

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You are immersed passively in these settings where you’re learning without even realizing you’re learning.

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You’re just noticing those, those rhythms as the seasons roll by and what happens year after year as these students go through these school environments, um, their school journey in these environments.

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Matt Rogers: Yeah.

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That, that’s incredible.

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Well, um… So for those, the audience members that don’t know, we, we allow guests to, to apply for the show, and one of the things, um, Sharon kind of put in there is, the idea of turning, uh, retaining walls into whisper walls, um, in, in some projects.

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So, I definitely want to hear maybe in practice what that’s looked like.

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and then really, how can designers approach site demands to unlock learning opportunities without blowing the budget, like for things like that?

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Um, so I kinda want to hear from you, what does that look like in practice, and, how can you do that effectively while managing, you know, a, a budget,

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Sharon Bradley: Uh, yeah, we developed tools and methods, tools and materials, methods, um, out of necessity.

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Again, there was ve-very little money, very little time.

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So how do we accomplish this?

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How do we engage everybody, get them outside and, and meaningful engage with this, outdoor, these outdoor learning spaces?

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and so it’s not as complicated as you would think to do this, and, and I’m going to use a couple of examples.

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We’re managing topography on just about every school site, and so if you have to build a retaining wall anyway, it’s actually not that
complicated to carve out a, a shape and a materiality that creates these, the physics of sound, and you can have fun with the physics of sound.

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And the whisper wall is one of the ways that we’ve done that.

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And in fact, the example project that we’re going to present at the A4LE conference this fall, will exhibit that, just, just that on one of our schools.

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And so we had the, a very challenging topography, and how we managed it, turned into a teaching tool

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Matt Rogers: That’s amazing.

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And what does that, like, look like from the engaging side of, how do you kinda come up with, like, the design or the idea for these?

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Uh, I’m sure that there’s a lot of engaging with the community, um, trying to kind of engage with what relates to, to that specific community, things like that.

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What does that conversation look like as you kind of do the brainstorming side of things?

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Sharon Bradley: Well, the bridge really is the curriculum.

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I mean, we know the curriculum is set.

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We know the teachers have to teach to it.

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and so that is the one constant, and we design to that.

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And it, it accomplishes several things when we do that.

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Um, first of all, it gives the teachers a, a wider array of, uh, ways to teach each lesson unit.

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And so we draw those lesson units from the curriculum.

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We implement them in the site in very specific ways, so teachers aren’t having to come up with whole new ways to teach in order to get the students outside.

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If they’re teaching a lesson unit inside, we make it easy for them to bring that exact same lesson unit outside, and we do that with the elements that we’re integrating into the landscape.

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And it’s a way to easily engage the community as well, because the community, of course, wants the best education for their students.

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And so if we are bringing their curriculum to life in many more different ways and we’re reaching many more different learning styles, which we know now, sitting in, in rows with books in front of us is not always the best way for everybody.

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So how do we introduce multi-sensory experiences and tactile experiences?

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And how do we use building materials to get that?

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And whether it’s a retaining wall or bioretention, areas to manage stormwater that are filled with native plants, which, like I said before, that
attract the birds and the butterflies and the seasonal colors and the textures and the things that you can eat and the things that you should never eat.

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And, you know, all of that stuff gets wrapped in, and I– and communities get really excited about that because that, that does reach that very, um, visceral, tactile part of ourselves that connects us with nature

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Matt Rogers: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Oh, I, I love to hear that.

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And I think even from a district side, I think there’s just so much with, trying to attract and retain students in general too, and, and it seems like this is a great way to, to engage, community in a positive way to, to attracting, um, those families.

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So I guess, you kind of started to dive into, you know, how you impact, um, and kind of work with the curriculum on some of these thoughts.

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I wanna dive into that because I, I, I’m so intrigued by this.

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So, um, I really wanna dive in at a high level.

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I wanna unpack kind of your curriculum integration model.

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yeah, just walk us through, how you take a district’s existing curriculum and, extract specific lesson units, um, and kind of map them into physical locations on the campus.

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Sharon Bradley: Um, I arrived there by failing first.

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you know, I think we all as designers tend to, uh, design things that we think would be amazing and exciting, um, but it’s often from our minds outward.

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And the thing that I love about this idea of radically student-centered is that we are coming from the student’s point of view and their lived realities.

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Um, and so when we can design like that, we can reach them.

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And so curriculum integration came about because I was, like many designers, just designing things that I, in my head, thought would be effective, and they weren’t.

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People weren’t using the outdoor spaces.

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And so I had to go back to the drawing board literally and think about what does get people outside.

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And the only way, having substitute taught in my kids’ classrooms and realizing how hard it is, we can’t make it harder for teachers, um, to come outside and use the outdoors.

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We have to put it in their hands and make it accessible.

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And the only way to do that is to take, again, take those lesson units that they’re already tasked with teaching and, and bring them meaningfully and easily outside.

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And that means studying the curriculum, and that’s where the curriculum integration model came in.

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So I started studying the curriculum of every school I was working in at the, both the, the local level and at the state level, and then extracting learning units that I
thought could easily be accommodated on the site, whether it’s, you know, colors and counting and shapes at the lower grades, or it’s physics and biology, humanities and arts.

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Um, how do we integrate those specific units on the site?

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And then creating charts that say, “This is, this is where this element is on the site. This is the specific lesson unit you can teach there, and
here are some notes about how to teach it.” Whether it’s weather and climate change, things like this is th- this element teaches it in this way.

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This gives you that opportunity and really put in the, in the educator’s hands, an easy path to follow to teach what they’re already having to teach

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Matt Rogers: So I wanna ask, um, what are some common misconceptions districts have about modern school design, um, and how do you personally address those?

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Sharon Bradley: Uh, it’s a great question because we encounter it often, that it’s, it’s too expensive to build and it’s too expensive to maintain, um, engaging landscapes.

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and that it would be high maintenance.

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And so one of the things that we have proven, um, through data, through the Design for Impact data that we’ve been able to gather, is that it’s actually less expensive over time.

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by, again, engaging stormwater management, um, facilities like bioretentions, those are concave areas where foot traffic doesn’t go.

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So we know that foot traffic is running everywhere, is the way that the, the plants re-really are quickly obliterated.

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But they don’t go into the bioretention areas, and that’s also where the water goes, so there’s no irrigation that is needed.

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So when we concentrate all of that wonderful educational planting material and all the, all that habitat-supporting plant material concentrated in those bioretention areas, we’re accomplishing several things.

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We’re meeting our stormwater management requirements, which we have to do anyway, and that’s the least expensive way to do it.

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And they’re getting the water they need without irrigation, also less expensive maintenance.

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There’s no mowing.

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There’s no pruning, really.

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There’s no– there’s very, very little maintenance of it.

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So it’s low maintenance.

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It thrives.

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It evolves over time, as we know our naturalized landscapes do.

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Um, and so it’s actually less maintenance, and it’s less costly over time.

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And so that’s something that we’ve been able to start to, to gather the data on.

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that’s what’s one way we’ve addressed it is by gathering cost data, um, just really proving that it, it’s not, uh, more expensive, but then also emphasizing the why.

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And one of the things that we did for one of the school districts is get all the, the facilities folks out on the river, um, the, the
local river, uh, and see these amazing habitats that are around us and, and the reason why it’s so important not to destroy these habitats.

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And so we had these maintenance folks who were born and raised in these areas where they were working, had never experienced their county from that perspective.

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Um, and they went into the boat saying, “It’s too much maintenance.

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It’s gonna be way more on our shoulders.” They came out of the boat saying, “We have to do more of this.

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This is so important.” They, they saw herons, and they saw all sort of amazing wildlife and, and the, the beautiful, plantings along the edges.

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And knowing that that could be destroyed by destructive tendencies and, and why it’s so important to design our sites in a different way, became abundantly clear.

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And so emphasizing the why and demonstrating the why is another way we address it.

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Matt Rogers: Oh, that’s incredible.

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Well, I’m so glad that, that you went there and talked about that because we really need those advocates, you know, across the States.

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I feel like definitely in like my local community, I feel like there’s opportunities to improve in a lot of these areas.

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Um, and like you said, just taking them out and, and having them experience those, you know, those different perspectives, um, from a different lens is, is just so huge.

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And, um, like you said too, I mean, from a cost perspective, you know, I know you kind of mentioned that it actually in the long term can save on those things.

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I would also kind of argue too that like just the, the mental and, and physical wellbeing of a lot of, maintenance team members, uh, from school, from the school’s perspective would also be a, a lot better.

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You know, when we work with schools at K12, it’s not just about furniture or design, it’s about impact.

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Our radically student-centered approach puts students at the center of every decision.

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From that first conversation to the final walkthrough, we’re focused on creating spaces that actually work for the kids, the teachers, and the community.

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So if you’re looking to do more than just check a box on your next project, let’s talk.

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Visit k12.com, that’s K-A-Y-T-W-E-L-V-E.com, and see how we’re helping schools transform learning one student at a time.

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Because at K12, it’s not just about projects and furniture, it’s about purpose

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Matt Rogers: If budget wasn’t a constraint in your work, what would your ideal environment include, for an outdoor learning environment?

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Sharon Bradley: Gosh, I think I would take this idea of, um, every inch of a campus can be a, a learning opportunity, and I would take it to the Nth degree.

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You know, we have to do it in a lot of indirect ways on a limited budget.

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But if we had an unlimited budget, um, we could really activate all of the campus in really specific ways that made it completely accessible, both for educators to use and for students to learn in

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Matt Rogers: Yeah.

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Yeah.

00:19:13.628 –> 00:19:18.108
Well, we need to figure out a way to make that happen, ’cause I’d be super intrigued to see what that could look like.

00:19:18.139 –> 00:19:24.316
What do you and your team, how do you, how do you all manage for our, architect and designer, you know, audience over here?

00:19:24.316 –> 00:19:33.270
What, would you say is like the best way to kind of get that buy-in very early on from the educators as you’re working on these, types of, methods early on in the design practice?

00:19:34.137 –> 00:19:37.143
Sharon Bradley: I think drawing those direct lines is important.

00:19:37.393 –> 00:19:39.433
showing how this can be done.

00:19:39.443 –> 00:19:41.763
This is not just a pie in the sky idea.

00:19:42.093 –> 00:19:44.063
It’s very practical, it’s very feasible.

00:19:44.363 –> 00:19:46.003
It is in line with the budget.

00:19:46.123 –> 00:19:47.253
That’s always a concern.

00:19:48.073 –> 00:19:50.163
It’s in line with teachers’ time constraints.

00:19:50.587 –> 00:19:55.017
it works with the natural systems on the site, not against them.

00:19:55.117 –> 00:19:57.797
That actually saves money in the construction budget.

00:19:58.707 –> 00:20:07.027
And it engages the community because it, it creates a campus that is also, uh, an amenity for the entire community.

00:20:07.087 –> 00:20:10.637
Because a lot of schools, of course, are open to the communities in the evenings and weekends.

00:20:11.067 –> 00:20:19.887
And so we’re actually adding a park, essentially, an environmental education resource for the community, and that’s not a difficult sell

00:20:20.136 –> 00:20:20.836
Matt Rogers: absolutely.

00:20:20.866 –> 00:20:21.146
Yeah.

00:20:21.378 –> 00:20:26.464
Do you feel like, you’re getting pretty involved on like even like the pre-bond initiatives with districts?

00:20:26.464 –> 00:20:31.404
Do you feel like you’re on like the pre-planning stage then with, with audit districts or how does that

00:20:32.544 –> 00:20:32.764
kind of

00:20:32.824 –> 00:20:39.069
Sharon Bradley: are starting to, to engage earlier on the process to, again, to, demonstrate the– what’s possible.

00:20:39.229 –> 00:20:42.139
You know, what is the potential of this site versus that site?

00:20:42.509 –> 00:20:56.177
And again, how can we work with the natural environment to settle school mass, the building massing, the parking, all of those nuts and bolts that have to happen and still have a campus that is engaging and inviting

00:20:56.749 –> 00:20:57.469
Matt Rogers: Yeah, yeah.

00:20:57.661 –> 00:21:07.446
kind of diving a little bit deeper into that, to make an outdoor learning environment successful, I, I feel like it’s pretty apparent that the indoor and outdoor environments need to, to speak the same language.

00:21:07.983 –> 00:21:18.742
in the seat that you sit in, what does an ideal partnership look like between the building architect, the landscape architect, you know, the educational, equipment suppliers, um, a- and all the folks in the planning process?

00:21:18.742 –> 00:21:22.299
What, what does an ideal partnership look like in your eyes, for something like that?

00:21:22.875 –> 00:21:28.055
Sharon Bradley: It, it goes back to the previous question, is that it’s engaging the landscape architect early.

00:21:28.252 –> 00:21:36.238
it’s having us, at the table and part of the discussions when that building massing discussion is happening and when that parking layout is happening.

00:21:36.638 –> 00:21:47.070
And allowing, our voices with the curriculum integration and that programming element, which is really important as an integral part of the design process from the very beginning.

00:21:47.244 –> 00:21:59.594
so often landscape architects are seen as just the people who put the plants in at the end in the, in the remaining gaps and, and, and that’s such a lackluster approach to campus design, and it does our students a disservice.

00:21:59.916 –> 00:22:09.839
where if we can build it in from the beginning, again, we’re even affecting, um, how the topography is managed, how the earthwork is managed, because as, as I’ve discussed, it’s…

00:22:09.839 –> 00:22:14.303
it can be part of the learning environment, the way you’re handling the topography.

00:22:14.313 –> 00:22:17.443
So it’s, it’s, it’s accomplishing many things at the same time.

00:22:17.949 –> 00:22:18.319
Matt Rogers: Yeah.

00:22:18.551 –> 00:22:29.581
so I obviously sit, um, with K-12, and we do a lot of the interior aspects and a lot of the same, the same challenge that you shared very early on in that, that answer was to involve you all early.

00:22:29.601 –> 00:22:34.361
And I feel like that’s definitely from our seat too, that’s definitely the same spot that I feel like we come from.

00:22:34.842 –> 00:22:46.967
there’s one thing that, we’re kind of like naming is learning space integration, where, you know, naming that partner that’s really gonna take full ownership of bringing all these parties together and having these conversations very early on is so important.

00:22:46.967 –> 00:23:06.349
So, for those of you h- who have not heard, um, there is a new book, “Radically Student-Centered.” I’ll put it in the comments, but it definitely hits on that a little bit as far as like having that ownership
of somebody sitting in that learning space integration seat to be able to, like I said, kind of expand and, and get everybody in the, the right seat at the right time, um, and early enough in the process.

00:23:06.359 –> 00:23:09.168
So, yeah, I, I appreciate you kind of bringing that up.

00:23:09.188 –> 00:23:14.915
Um, I, I’ll also say that your work heavily incorporates, impact assessment frameworks too.

00:23:15.019 –> 00:23:23.349
what indicators or shifts do you look for after a campus is built to know that the outdoor space is actually transforming, um, student engagement and learning outcomes?

00:23:23.958 –> 00:23:33.638
Sharon Bradley: it’s important to stay in touch with our project communities, and we do that both with our residential communities and the campus environments and to see how we have done.

00:23:33.698 –> 00:23:52.128
And part of my doctoral research was, you know, name Design for Impact, and the only way you can know is by maintaining that contact and seeing,
seeing what has worked, what can we do better next time, and also helping, uh, school administrators and educators understand what they have.

00:23:52.158 –> 00:24:00.238
Sometimes we’ve built really great environments and again, everybody’s, number one, so excited to be in the new place, which totally understandable.

00:24:00.542 –> 00:24:01.892
but number two, really busy.

00:24:01.992 –> 00:24:03.422
Again, very busy all the time.

00:24:03.422 –> 00:24:12.962
They don’t always remember that we talked about curriculum integration outside, and so it’s a matter of coming back and, and really doing that re-education process and staying connected.

00:24:13.199 –> 00:24:22.198
and we love to come back and, and talk about that, but also talk about careers in landscape architecture and civil engineering and just maintaining those relationships.

00:24:22.898 –> 00:24:28.138
Um, and it’s all about those relationships that give us the information then about who’s coming outside.

00:24:28.158 –> 00:24:28.878
Is it happening?

00:24:29.258 –> 00:24:31.558
And if it’s not, how can we get it to happen?

00:24:31.928 –> 00:24:33.478
Um, how are they using the space?

00:24:33.488 –> 00:24:38.658
Sometimes there are some really incredible unintended outcomes, which are amazing.

00:24:38.718 –> 00:24:49.838
Um, some relationships that start happening with the community because this amenity now exists between the students and the, the community working together now on this school garden, for example.

00:24:49.848 –> 00:24:54.253
We’ve had that, and these impromptu little mini farmers markets that sprang out of that.

00:24:54.263 –> 00:24:59.943
So there are all these wonderful things that we can find out about if we maintain those relationships after the fact.

00:25:00.263 –> 00:25:05.243
And then again, from a practical standpoint, we can gather the data of, of how it’s functioning

00:25:05.703 –> 00:25:06.073
Matt Rogers: Yeah.

00:25:06.093 –> 00:25:09.433
Uh, oh, I love that, and I’m gonna dig a little bit deeper into that in a moment.

00:25:09.463 –> 00:25:15.905
Um, but before I do that, you kind of mentioned early on in the conversation that you’re really focused in, you know, primarily in the Washington, D.C.,

00:25:16.095 –> 00:25:17.565
Baltimore, Virginia area.

00:25:18.075 –> 00:25:37.919
I guess from your perspective, you know, being able to speak, to our national audience, um, our na- national A4LE audience, I guess, what are things that maybe you see that is, is either, you
know, s- something that you see is done a little bit better, um, or maybe just, differently in the area and the market that you’re in, maybe compared to other districts around the country?

00:25:37.919 –> 00:25:47.051
What are things, opportunities, or, you know, maybe even struggles that you kind of see, um, as you look at different pockets of the U.S. when you’re, when you’re talking about some of those components there?

00:25:47.825 –> 00:25:51.695
Sharon Bradley: Yes, I think the development, the uptake of these concepts is very uneven.

00:25:52.215 –> 00:25:55.942
Um, a lot of people are very stuck on, This is the way we’ve always done it.

00:25:55.942 –> 00:26:08.842
This is the way we’re gonna continue to do it.” A lot of people are still, uh, focused on the building alone and not realizing the environmental opportunities and the, uh, environmental education opportunities and the benefits of getting people outside.

00:26:08.971 –> 00:26:13.437
these local jurisdictions where we’re working now are really forward-thinking.

00:26:13.507 –> 00:26:29.999
Um, and I’ll, I’ll call out Prince George’s County right now in Maryland because they have been leading the way, not only in innovation in stormwater
management and things like that, uh, but, stormwater management and environmental education as it relates to our schools, our, our campus environments.

00:26:30.475 –> 00:26:44.073
I think that is the, biggest first step, is having a school administration that recognizes the benefits of thinking ahead and thinking forward in 21st century schools ways and including the outdoor environment in that.

00:26:44.493 –> 00:26:52.911
And I think a big, a big leader in that that has impacted the– our local school jurisdictions is this, um, the Chesapeake Bay Watershed.

00:26:53.291 –> 00:27:01.211
And the Chesapeake Bay Trust and Chesapeake Bay Foundations have been really excellent in getting the word out about how important it is.

00:27:01.241 –> 00:27:05.571
And again, school campuses are– have huge impacts on our watershed.

00:27:06.091 –> 00:27:14.451
And, uh, we also realize how one of the first steps in awareness is education, and education starts at the student level.

00:27:14.451 –> 00:27:22.541
So if they are environmentally sensitive and aware and knowledgeable, then that next generation will come up and be better stewards of our environment.

00:27:22.761 –> 00:27:31.935
And so, I think a lot of the school jurisdictions within the Chesapeake Bay Watershed are becoming great stewards because they, they’re learning more about why it’s important

00:27:32.603 –> 00:27:37.544
Matt Rogers: I love how you kind of turn that all the way back around to, you know, how it’s impacting the students today.

00:27:37.854 –> 00:27:40.644
Um, that definitely leads me into, to where I wanted to go.

00:27:41.094 –> 00:27:53.770
if you were to walk into a school campus that, that you helped, um, you know, make an impact with 15 to 20 years from now, um, what will tell you that that landscape design was truly timeless, and successfully integrated into the school’s culture?

00:27:54.075 –> 00:27:56.987
What are those things that you’re kind of looking for, in the impact that you made?

00:27:57.430 –> 00:28:02.230
Sharon Bradley: again, as I said, we-we’ve developed, um, tools and materials that are durable.

00:28:02.340 –> 00:28:09.420
And so I think the thing that would speak to me is that it’s holding together the bones of the campus design.

00:28:09.420 –> 00:28:14.669
It’s holding together those walls and those features, and that maybe they’ve evolved.

00:28:14.769 –> 00:28:21.279
Um, I love to see schools that have just taken a space, and maybe it wasn’t exactly what we expected, but they’ve made it their own.

00:28:21.289 –> 00:28:22.809
They’ve turned it into something else.

00:28:23.309 –> 00:28:25.819
Um, and, and I can give an example.

00:28:25.829 –> 00:28:33.189
We designed this, um, elementary school in Maryland, and we used the landscape as a storytelling device.

00:28:33.239 –> 00:28:35.889
And so we told the story of the journey of a raindrop.

00:28:36.039 –> 00:28:51.700
And so we did a s-stormwater treatment train that started with rain falling on a green roof, going down a rain chain very visibly into, uh, the
science courtyard, into a touching pool, where, uh, teachers could put aquatic plants and things like that, study water samples and things like that.

00:28:51.980 –> 00:28:56.640
And kids can touch the water and the plants and things and just have that tactile experience.

00:28:57.170 –> 00:29:06.450
Um, and then it overflows to a runnel, and it’s audible, and it’s, and it’s visible as it runs through the science courtyard and then into the bioretention area be-beyond.

00:29:06.480 –> 00:29:14.140
So you learn this whole story at different grade levels of the story of a raindrop and, and what’s important about stormwater management and our watersheds.

00:29:14.342 –> 00:29:19.752
and the science classrooms are on either side of this with plots where they can grow different things.

00:29:20.332 –> 00:29:33.832
And that has evolved over the years where the science teachers have decided we need this courtyard to do this this year and, and next year we’re gonna have this other theme, and it’s gonna be transformed into a completely different use.

00:29:33.982 –> 00:29:39.622
And I love that because they have taken ownership of that space, and they’ve, they’ve turned it to their own uses.

00:29:39.622 –> 00:29:48.752
And so to me, that’s an indicator of success, where they have taken ownership and they are actively using it as part of their, uh, normal teaching process.

00:29:49.180 –> 00:29:49.470
Matt Rogers: Yeah.

00:29:49.560 –> 00:29:52.885
Uh, those are the stories I love to hear, in our space.

00:29:52.885 –> 00:30:07.545
And, from my perspective, you know, it’s always a disappointment when you see a school spend, you know, whatever X amount of dollars to create
new learning environments, and then it’s used the same way that it’s always been, and it continues down that path for the next 15, 20 years.

00:30:08.045 –> 00:30:14.225
I mean, it really is like not only doing that, but when you have that vision, like really putting that into the school culture.

00:30:14.555 –> 00:30:25.275
Um, and when it’s done right, I do think that you’re gonna see those results, to your point, 10, 15, 20 years later, where, you know, educators are adapting those spaces and, and really making the most, most use cases.

00:30:25.275 –> 00:30:28.865
So I love, I love hearing those stories, um, especially in our space.

00:30:28.865 –> 00:30:35.555
And, um, certainly, for those that will be attending Learningscapes, EdSpaces, things like that, you’ll hear stories like that.

00:30:35.810 –> 00:30:38.131
and I’m sure you’ll hear Sharon’s story too.

00:30:38.341 –> 00:30:46.531
Um, I think that I- she kinda gave me a sneak peek before this recording, but it kinda dives in a little bit to, to maybe some projects and things that they’ve done in the past too.

00:30:46.531 –> 00:31:08.724
So, Uh, before we kinda part ways, I wanna ask one more question because I know another big thing, um, in this community and one of the things that, that we really try to do with the podcast is really encourage, other
design thinkers a- and those who wanna just really get into, you know, educational design in the first place, really give them insight into really how to get started and why to get started, why it’s such important work.

00:31:08.724 –> 00:31:17.399
So I wanna ask you, Sharon, what, what’s a piece of advice for somebody that you would give that might want to kinda dive into this, to this, uh, field of work?

00:31:17.410 –> 00:31:21.919
why do you think it’s gonna be, just as important today as it is 10 to 15, 20 years from now?

00:31:22.109 –> 00:31:28.546
What– Like just what, what’s your thoughts on, uh, why somebody should kinda venture down this path of, kinda helping with educational design?

00:31:29.418 –> 00:31:34.968
Sharon Bradley: perhaps the most important potentially profoundly influential thing is to, to spend time outside.

00:31:35.335 –> 00:31:45.334
in environments that inspire you and, and regain that sense of awe and wonder that we lose, often in adulthood.

00:31:45.804 –> 00:31:53.893
And if you can regain that, if you can rediscover that, I think that is the first step in sending it forward to a, to another generation.

00:31:53.923 –> 00:32:05.392
And we use the tools that we’re given in schools, architects, landscape architects, that’s one piece of the puzzle, but a much bigger piece of the puzzle is a sense of wonder and awe in nature

00:32:05.928 –> 00:32:06.928
Matt Rogers: That’s incredible.

00:32:07.146 –> 00:32:09.726
Sharon, I, I can’t thank you enough for sitting down with us today.

00:32:09.726 –> 00:32:13.796
You’ve given our community such a fresh, actionable framework for looking at outdoor spaces.

00:32:14.189 –> 00:32:15.379
we, we really appreciate it.

00:32:15.379 –> 00:32:24.559
And for our listeners out there, um, if you wanna learn more about Sharon’s work, her curriculum integration model or Bradley Site Design, we’ll have some of those links down in the comments below.

00:32:24.703 –> 00:32:33.273
Sharon, as we’ve also discussed, will also be at LearningScapes talking, um, on a session around a lot of these topics, um, and ideas that we, we discussed today.

00:32:33.273 –> 00:32:35.233
So really excited to kinda highlight her.

00:32:35.453 –> 00:32:39.293
If you wanna learn more about her session, that’ll also be linked in the show notes below.

00:32:39.534 –> 00:32:47.854
again, for the listeners, if you liked this episode, please like, comment, subscribe, share this podcast wherever you listen and get your podcast episodes.

00:32:48.054 –> 00:32:49.434
We would greatly appreciate it.

00:32:49.644 –> 00:32:53.554
And Sharon, thank you so much again for joining us on “The Better Learning Podcast.” We’ll see you next time

00:32:55.580 –> 00:33:00.040
The Better Learning Podcast is produced by Matt Rogers and edited by Kelly Jones.

00:33:00.720 –> 00:33:10.090
The views and opinions shared on this podcast are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily represent the perspectives of their affiliated companies, organizations, or associations