Read Transcript:

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Kevin Stoller: Welcome to the Better Learning Podcast.

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My name’s Kevin Stoller, and I’m really excited about our guest today, Dr. George Hummer.

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How you doing?

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Dr. George Hummer: Doing fantastic.

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Thanks for having me,

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Kevin Stoller: So we are gonna be talking a lot about the types of things you’re working on because you got some really cool initiatives, but I always love hearing the f- from you first of like, what– Give, give me your background of like why education?

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What got you down this path into education?

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Dr. George Hummer: Absolutely.

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So I, I am what you call a lifelong learner.

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Uh, I’ve always been dedicated to helping other people around me, to making not only myself a better person, but others, my friends, my colleagues.

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I, I’ve always just been giving back a- in numerous levels.

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But my mom is a special ed teacher, and she has, instilled in me the, the empathetic, principle that I have, and again, just giving back and helping others.

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She, she actually retired eight years ago, was home for a month, and is back at it.

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She’s still teaching 39 years later.

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She just couldn’t stay away, she just fully loves and, and is immersed in what she does every day.

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She’s always calling me and be like, “Hey, I got this situation and this situation.”

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Like, just genuine having really good conversations.

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So when I was in elementary and middle school, I was a s- what’s called a STOP counselor.

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So I was asked by a couple of my teachers who recommended me to help other students with things they were going through, help them if they felt like they weren’t fitting in, and now of course, more heavy things that went to a counselor and what have you.

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But I would go through these trainings every summer.

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We would go to this camp.

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I’ll never forget, I grew up in New Jersey, so we’d go to this camp, and we would go through all these different scenarios and trainings, and I just loved it.

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I loved having conversations with other people and making them feel like they belong, and I just always had that energy.

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Like, that– I get my energy from people.

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I love people.

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I love interacting with people.

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I love trying to learn what makes them tick and just be empathetic.

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people have bad days, people have good days, and just understanding that So then in high school, I, when I moved to Virginia, my mom was, as I mentioned, a teacher, and the school she was working for unfortunately went out of business.

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She was at a private school at the time and, and she joined a public school when we came here to Virginia.

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And, uh, we– you have an opportunity to take a separate course.

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And for me, I wanted to be immersed in our special education classroom.

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So I was at aide for four years, and I, I was at Chancellor High School, shout out to my Chargers, and I just worked with our students with disabilities.

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So I was in there for one block a, a day and just working with helping students out.

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I did Special Olympics and always just had that passion of just helping others and being there.

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And then fast-forward, went to college, uh, got my degree in liberal arts.

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I started as chemistry.

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I thought I might wanted to be, like I said, helping others.

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I thought I was gonna maybe do sports medicine, and then I was really like, “Man, I really like this teaching thing.” And so I was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do, but I graduated liberal arts.

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I was working for a, what was called a adult basic ed instructor for a local nonprofit, and I was helping adults with disabilities be able
to be immersed in the community, like how to balance a checkbook, how to, um, live on your own, and, and how to get fund– money for food.

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It was a really cool job.

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Wasn’t able to make ends meet though because it was a nonprofit, and that was in July when I graduated.

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And then there was a position open up at a local, a middle school, and I got a job as a special ed teacher and sky’s the limit was there.

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I mean, the rest is history.

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So love what I do, love helping others.

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Uh, it led me to where I’m at today.

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I tell everybody, uh, that if I was a 30-year teacher, I would’ve re- I would’ve retired with a smile on my face.

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I just had good mentors to push me to help others and, and led me to, to where I am today.

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Kevin Stoller: Yeah.

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I, I could see it already in your attitude.

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It’s like no matter what you do, you would be, yeah, you would love it.

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Dr. George Hummer: Love it.

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Yeah, I just– Hap- happy to be here.

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I would say the number one thing that I’ve learned throughout my journey and throughout where I’ve, I’ve landed today is, is listen.

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I- is hear people out, put yourself in their shoes.

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And I’m not talking about like a, a sympathetic, I’m talking about empathy.

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Like, empathy is different than sympathy.

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Empathy is truly putting yourselves in their shoes and hearing what they have to say.

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And I have a saying that everybody k- knows that I say this, is 99.9% of the time, if you just listen and stop and try to find a compromise, you can get through any problem.

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Any problem.

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people just wanna be heard.

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So I’ve always had the ability to identify why somebody was going through a struggle or have an issue and, and help them see things differently, but also
to kinda help them be able to understand what it is that they need to do to get past an obstacle and get past whatever it is that they need to work through.

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We all deal with issues and, and struggles, and we all have to have those skills, skills to do that.

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But I’m also a huge believer in, in making ourselves better.

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Like, every day you should be better than yesterday, a- and we should always be willing to learn.

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And I always love the argument where they’re like, “I’m in algebra class.

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When am I ever gonna use algebra?” Right? And I always say to them, “You know what you did?

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Okay, you might not be able to ever use x+6=9.

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You might, you might not, but you finished, and you got through it, and you graduated, and you finished something, and you accomplished something, and you worked through it.” and just getting
people to just change their mindset on things and, and to be able to help others and, and even if they just pass it forward to somebody else, it, it gives me goosebumps talking about that.

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But that’s really helped d- design kinda where I am and where I’m going and, and help others around me to just make this a better place.

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Kevin Stoller: Yeah.

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Love it.

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I mean, this whole idea of like learning to learn, like that’s, that, that’s the im- that’s one of the most important things.

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If, if they can learn how to learn, it’s gonna stay with them wherever they go and, and any age.

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All right.

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Well, well, one of the things that you have on your plate right now, other than j- you know, like your normal day-to-day work as superintendent, which, you know, probably isn’t that much, right?

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I mean, I feel like, you know, like

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Dr. George Hummer: Not at all.

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Kevin Stoller: I always joke, I’m like, “You have like the hardest job in, in the country.” I, I don’t think there is an easy

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Dr. George Hummer: I love it.

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It’s, it’s a mindset.

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You gotta have a good mindset, number one.

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Yeah

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Kevin Stoller: but you have on top of that now is y- you have, uh, you have a really cool opportunity working on new construction of, of a high school.

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Is this the first time you’ve been part of a new construction?

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‘Cause you, you’ve seen it play through

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Dr. George Hummer: No.

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Yeah, no, this is, this is actually one of the main things that attracted me to, to Frederick County is we are– we were for four years in a row the fastest growing community in Virginia.

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And I saw that, and like I said, I had mentors that were pushing me to go beyond where I was, and I had really, really good opportunity in Stafford as well, ’cause that’s where I came before this.

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And, uh, I was part of, because I had really good mentors that put me at the table during these heavy conversations of budget and growth and development.

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I don’t know if you guys are familiar with Stafford, Virginia, they’re growing as well.

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They’re like right below Washington, D.C. and where Quantico is, so there’s a lot of growth there more than here.

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So I was a part of developing the sixth high school that actually just opened this year.

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So I was a part of the front end of classroom space and size and looking at the different program dynamics.

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Like, there’s a big difference between program and design capacity.

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Huge difference, and we could dive into that if you’d like.

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But, uh, we had to kinda talk through what those needs are of the kids and the adults and the structures and the logistics.

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So it was a great opportunity.

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So then when I came here, we were, behind in regards to building, and that’s pretty typical because it’s, it’s a lot of money, all right?

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And you have to get buy-in from the community and make sure people are trusting what you’re doing and you’re not just trying to get a notch on your belt to say, “Yeah, I built that school.”

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It has to be a true need.

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But, uh, anyway, so I, I just reconfigured how it was presented previously just ’cause before it was, “We’re growing and we’re gonna need this.” And that wasn’t wrong, but the community, for, for whatever reason, needed a little bit more information.

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So when I came, I just shifted that and said, “We’re overcrowded today.”

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Right?

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Before it was, “We’re getting there and we might be overcrowded, we might not.” Well, they were right ’cause we’re overcrowded, but we’re overcrowded today, so we’re at 120% capacity.

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So I was able to navigate that and, and work through that.

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So I have a lot of experience of designing schools and having those conversations to show what the needs are and not the wants.

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Kevin Stoller: Yeah.

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Which is so rare because so many times like that, this is maybe your one chance to do it in there.

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So the fact that you can come with the background experience of doing it before.

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I, I do wanna dig into m- a little bit more what you said there, of like that difference between programming and design.

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I, I think that would be really helpful for the audience to hear what you’ve seen through experience.

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Dr. George Hummer: Absolutely.

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So anytime you walk into a large room, I want you to pay attention to the sign on the wall that has no more than 100 people, right?

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That’s design capacity.

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That is per code, where you can’t have too many, uh, more than that, that number that’s on that wall.

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Well, in any scenario, again, look at that, that thing on the wall and look at the number and imagine if you had that many people in that room, right?

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You could probably have people lined up with their hands at their sides and their feet together and packed into the room.

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You just can’t go more than that, right?

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‘Cause then you’re dealing with fire marshal codes and everything else.

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Same thing with our schools, right?

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Yes, you could fit 32, 33 kids per classroom.

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There’s a state code to determine what the square footage is per kid, but our kids don’t learn that way.

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They do not learn with packing 35 kids in there and expecting them to meet all the things that they’re required to do, and as I said earlier, getting kids to try to love algebra.

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And, and unfortunately, when you have that design capacity, but then you show the program capacity, which is students with disabilities.

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You might have a classroom that can have 32 kids in it, but because of code and because of learning styles, you only have 10 kids in that classroom.

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So then your program capacity is less than your design capacity.

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So that is why in order to build the trust and to show that you are being good stewards of the taxpayer dollar, ’cause we have to say that, you have to explain that.

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We’re not trying to pull wool over your eyes and say, “Yeah, we’re trying to squeeze a couple more square footage out of here.” It’s this is why our program capacity is less.

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You also have English language learners.

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You have our CTE programs that can only go over a certain number.

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You have our kindergarten classes.

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If you have kindergarten classes at 18 to one, that’s pushing it, but that’s what our ratio is.

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If you have classes of 25 kindergartners in it, per the, the, the design capacity, our teachers would be quitting.

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I would quit.

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That’s a lot of kindergartners in one classroom.

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So that is what drives the needs of the kids.

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That is what we need to continue to focus on, and not all these other bells and whistles.

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Program capacity is what drives instruction and learning.

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And that is, for me, and I, and, and everyone knows this, that is my non-negotiable.

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and if we have to sacrifice all the, the, the fancy-looking buildings and all these other things, I’m willing to sacrifice that because I wanna focus on how are our kids learning, and size of the classroom does matter, especially for our younger grades.

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So w- there’s a couple things that we do in order to get ahead of that.

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The first thing that we do is we establish our program capacity at each school, because not only do the needs change of that school,
like this year, hypothetically, we might have 100 kids with disabilities in one building, but then next year they might only have 60.

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So that program capacity could fluctuate, and in order to make sure that we’re being honest, we have to show that that number is changing and then explain why.

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So that’s the first thing that we do.

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The second thing that we do is, yes, we have needs for students, but we also have programmatic needs for staff.

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We have coaches in our schools.

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We have, IRTs that look at data.

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We have OTs, PTs, speech paths, and if they come into the school to try to work with kids and every classroom has kids in it, where are they performing those services?

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And this is a reality, guys.

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Hallways, vestibules, outside, offices in the front office.

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That’s not conducive.

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That’s not okay, right?

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We can’t put kids in scenar- yes, there, there’s times where we could be flexible, where if a classroom AC’s not working and they need to spend some time in the cafeteria and we’re flexible or, or what have you.

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There’s a multitude of reasons I’m sure you guys can, can, can know what we’re dealing with.

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That’s not what we’re talking about.

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We’re talking about every day the OT has to work with their kids in the hallway because there’s no classroom space.

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And, and that’s where, again, we have to truly define what that program capacity means, and we are explicit about it.

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So we have a whole chart that has, we have this number of classrooms, this number’s for special ed, this number is for specialized use.

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now again, I don’t have one coach in every classroom, right?

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We don’t have one classroom’s a coach, the next classroom’s just an OT, the next classroom’s a PT. We share that space.

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So one classroom might have three coaches in it.

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Another space might be the speech path, OT, and PT space.

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So we get creative, ’cause again, we have to be good stewards of the taxpayer dollar, but really showing that.

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So that’s the first thing that we do.

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The second thing that we do is we look at 10-year projections and we update them every year, and we get that me- that information through a triangulated process.

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We get it from the state.

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We look at birth rates, we look at trends, we look at patterns.

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We also work with, very closely with Weldon Cooper.

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I don’t know if you guys are familiar with them, but they’re out of UVA, and they give us a lot of trends across the state and the country And then we get our local data, and then we get building data.

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And for Frederick County, we are continuously building through many different angles.

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I could talk a whole hour about that, so I won’t dive into that.

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But there’s a lot of building that’s happening, so then we update our numbers regularly.

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Now, one piece that I do wanna add to that, and it’s something that we’re trying to shift in regards to capacity, is go out to your car and look at your speedometer.

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And all of us have a speedometer that goes probably 130, 150 miles per hour, right?

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I guarantee you, one, if you go 150 miles per hour every time in your car, one, you’ll probably get a ticket and hurt yourself, right?

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So don’t do that, please.

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But secondly, your car will break down longer than the warranty is on that car.

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I promise you, right?

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That your RPMs will be in the red every time and your car will break down, okay?

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Same thing with our schools.

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If we run our schools at 100% capacity every day, every year for 10 years, our schools will break down faster and it won’t be good for kids.

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So what I’ve been doing and having a lot of conversations and we’re getting there, and this is based on research, the sweet spot is 85 to 90%, probably closer to 85% capacity, right?

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Just in case you have a fluctuation in, in attendance, if you wanna add a new program, if you have kids that have more unique needs.

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So we wanna establish that at 85, but unfortunately, when… that chart I just mentioned to you about our 10-year progress, we go by 100% capacity.

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So we take a look at where we are, what those trends look like, and we continue to keep an eye on that because across the state and the country, and we won’t
dive too much into this, is we are seeing a enrollment issue of more and more kids not coming into, into public school and, and everyone’s dealing with it.

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But for us, we are still overcrowded and our numbers continue to grow because there’s a lot of building in this area.

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Kevin Stoller: Yeah.

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You hit one of, like, the most interesting dynamics that’s happening around the country right now, is that, you know, like, the, the growth is uneven.

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There’s, you know, the declining birth rates plus just kind of the, all the other options that are available in there that it’s so hard to predict kinda the current needs versus where they’re gonna be in there.

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But what I wanted to dig into a little m- more is, like, when you were trying to assess all this, like, who’s, who’s the team?

00:15:41.613 –> 00:15:42.533
Are you guiding?

00:15:42.543 –> 00:15:43.933
Is someone else guiding you?

00:15:43.943 –> 00:15:45.423
Who are you bringing to the table?

00:15:45.433 –> 00:15:52.479
Because, because it is really important, and we get this question a lot, you know, when somebody is building a new school and they’ve, they haven’t done it before.

00:15:52.511 –> 00:15:57.030
they wanna get a lot of voices, but you can’t have too many voices, otherwise just nothing gets done.

00:15:57.300 –> 00:15:59.590
So how, how did you pick, and what does your team look like

00:15:59.686 –> 00:16:00.026
Dr. George Hummer: Yeah.

00:16:00.026 –> 00:16:01.996
Everything you said was right until that last thing.

00:16:01.996 –> 00:16:04.336
There’s no such thing as too many voices, right?

00:16:04.336 –> 00:16:06.506
‘Cause you never wanna not include somebody.

00:16:06.536 –> 00:16:08.766
You never want someone feel like they’re on the out.

00:16:08.996 –> 00:16:16.996
You get- gather the information and you consider it, and it, it might be accurate, it might be off, it might be a we have to pivot, or it might be, “Hey, thanks for the feedback.

00:16:16.996 –> 00:16:21.996
That doesn’t fit into the direction we’re going in.” But you have to make sure people feel like they’re a part of the process.

00:16:22.316 –> 00:16:27.146
So, so to answer that in a, in a truncated version is, is there’s different phases, right?

00:16:27.146 –> 00:16:30.596
In the beginning, you wanna make sure you’re collaborating with the county.

00:16:30.626 –> 00:16:36.096
You wanna make sure that you’re talking and getting a good idea about when builds are gonna happen, where the kids are coming from.

00:16:36.356 –> 00:16:38.636
Also, are these neighborhoods age-restricted or not?

00:16:38.636 –> 00:16:45.076
So we’re a part of that process naturally because we have to provide input to zoning applications and all that.

00:16:45.326 –> 00:16:49.528
Uh, and then we also hear about future, growth, future builds, all those things.

00:16:49.528 –> 00:16:57.258
So I have standing meetings with our county, and then our board has standing meetings that we do joint meetings to talk about where we are and where we’re going.

00:16:57.468 –> 00:17:00.038
So all of those things are happening at the forefront.

00:17:00.268 –> 00:17:02.078
We also tap into our principals.

00:17:02.078 –> 00:17:03.608
We tap into our teacher groups.

00:17:03.908 –> 00:17:05.368
We tap into our parent groups.

00:17:05.368 –> 00:17:06.708
We talk into our students.

00:17:06.908 –> 00:17:09.408
That’s something that I’ve really built here in Frederick County.

00:17:09.408 –> 00:17:11.128
I have two students on the school board now.

00:17:11.128 –> 00:17:12.528
That’s been an awesome add.

00:17:12.788 –> 00:17:28.148
And, and really just getting everybody’s feedback, ’cause here’s what I tell everybody all the time: “This isn’t a George Hummer ask. This isn’t a George
Hummer push. You hired me to come in and assess where we are, and these are the recommendations to respond to this,” and you have to start with that.

00:17:28.558 –> 00:17:42.208
If we had numbers that showed that we aren’t growing and we don’t need this high school and we don’t need these expansions and we don’t need
these future growths, I have to say that And it actually somewhat happened because there was a big push to expand this one elementary school.

00:17:42.458 –> 00:17:44.988
But then I was looking at the numbers, and this was probably for 10 years.

00:17:44.988 –> 00:17:53.258
I’m like, “Guys, these projections don’t show they need an expansion. It needs to be this other elementary school.” And it was literally two days before we were presenting to the board.

00:17:53.438 –> 00:17:59.628
So we, we’re having these conversations, we got the principals involved, we talked to some board members, and it was, it was appreciated, right?

00:17:59.628 –> 00:18:01.178
Because we were getting ready to expand a school.

00:18:01.178 –> 00:18:10.068
And now today, that neighborhood that we shifted is not as overcrowded as this other neighborhood is, and this other neighborhood is gonna continue to grow.

00:18:10.348 –> 00:18:16.648
So you just have to have those upfront conversations to, one, do what’s best for kids, but also to make sure you’re including those folks.

00:18:16.858 –> 00:18:24.228
So then after you get the, the approval per se to, to move forward, that’s when you wanna make sure you’re tapping into your community.

00:18:24.538 –> 00:18:26.298
Get your key stakeholders in there.

00:18:26.478 –> 00:18:28.328
Get your, your parents in.

00:18:28.328 –> 00:18:35.868
Get your board of supervisors and your school board, and let’s sit down and let’s show you what this school needs to look like and what our needs are.

00:18:36.078 –> 00:18:38.828
And then you just continue to gather all this information.

00:18:38.928 –> 00:18:42.198
Again, you get your marching orders from the board of supervisors and your school board, right?

00:18:42.198 –> 00:18:45.218
Like, “My biggest priority is don’t go over this number.” Great.

00:18:45.468 –> 00:18:50.878
We need to make sure we’re efficient, but also getting a good quality school so we’re not having to repair it every year, right?

00:18:51.248 –> 00:18:53.908
So you just wanna make sure you’re having those conversations.

00:18:53.938 –> 00:19:04.608
And I know it sounds exhausting, a lot of work, but it is because you wanna do it right so down the road they’re not like, “Man, you didn’t include so-and-so,” and they’re not happy with you, so if you want a future school, forget about it.

00:19:04.778 –> 00:19:05.368
And you don’t wanna…

00:19:05.388 –> 00:19:06.408
And it’s genuine, right?

00:19:06.408 –> 00:19:08.458
You wanna make sure people feel like they’re included in the

00:19:08.678 –> 00:19:09.368
Kevin Stoller: Exactly.

00:19:09.608 –> 00:19:09.948
Yep

00:19:14.925 –> 00:19:19.705
You know, when we work with schools at K12, it’s not just about furniture or design, it’s about impact.

00:19:19.945 –> 00:19:24.115
Our radically student-centered approach puts students at the center of every decision.

00:19:24.425 –> 00:19:32.505
From that first conversation to the final walkthrough, we’re focused on creating spaces that actually work for the kids, the teachers, and the community.

00:19:32.785 –> 00:19:36.555
So if you’re looking to do more than just check a box on your next project, let’s talk.

00:19:36.805 –> 00:19:46.775
Visit k12.com, that’s K-A-Y-T-W-E-L-V-E.com, and see how we’re helping schools transform learning one student at a time.

00:19:47.115 –> 00:19:51.155
Because at K12, it’s not just about projects and furniture, it’s about purpose

00:19:56.541 –> 00:19:59.191
Kevin Stoller: are, are you the point person on all of that?

00:19:59.201 –> 00:20:02.631
Or how, how do you build like the team of accountability around there?

00:20:02.631 –> 00:20:08.691
Because that is a lot, like what you just explained is a lot on top of the everyday operating of a school system.

00:20:09.041 –> 00:20:15.691
So, so when you looked at the people around you, like who are the people that you’re bringing to the table and saying, “I need you to do this”?

00:20:15.941 –> 00:20:20.021
Like they, they all know who, who’s, who’s leading or who’s part of it.

00:20:20.231 –> 00:20:22.371
Dr. George Hummer: I’ve been blessed to have a, a great team here.

00:20:22.401 –> 00:20:27.881
Um, I have a really good support staff around me that know the things that we need.

00:20:27.911 –> 00:20:29.471
Uh, they’re all student-focused.

00:20:29.481 –> 00:20:30.971
They know the, the process.

00:20:31.201 –> 00:20:34.461
We spend a lot of time together to plan and to prepare.

00:20:34.781 –> 00:20:38.181
Um, I’m a big sports guy, so practice, there’s no replacement for that.

00:20:38.181 –> 00:20:40.431
There’s no replacement for hard work and preparation.

00:20:40.751 –> 00:20:42.821
So that– I’ve instilled that in our team.

00:20:42.888 –> 00:20:44.378
I cannot do this on my own.

00:20:44.496 –> 00:20:46.686
and I don’t know if that’s a, a loaded question or not.

00:20:46.866 –> 00:20:47.396
I can’t.

00:20:47.436 –> 00:20:48.796
You know, I, there’s no way.

00:20:48.806 –> 00:20:50.596
Uh, no superintendent can do this on their own.

00:20:50.836 –> 00:20:52.116
You need people around you.

00:20:52.356 –> 00:21:00.546
You need to make sure that you have the right people in the right places to get you the numbers from the county and see their program capacities and make sure that we have the right…

00:21:00.546 –> 00:21:11.496
‘Cause, like, my finance department is a huge integral part to this ’cause they work with the county on debt capacities and where we
are with this, and then we go out to bonding, so we work with the state on that, so they kind of tell me what the, the schedule is.

00:21:11.496 –> 00:21:14.410
And all these things, is a lot, right?

00:21:14.410 –> 00:21:18.230
And, and you just have to know, and you have to be a s- like I just shared with you earlier, you gotta be a student.

00:21:18.250 –> 00:21:20.280
You gotta be a student of whatever you’re doing.

00:21:20.520 –> 00:21:22.120
And I spend a lot of time learning.

00:21:22.120 –> 00:21:23.870
I spend a lot of time… I have a lot of mentors.

00:21:23.870 –> 00:21:27.820
I have a lot of good relationships with neighboring divisions of, “Hey, I know you just built a school.

00:21:27.820 –> 00:21:36.788
Talk me, talk me through that.” as I said earlier, to be a superintendent, you gotta have a good mindset, but you also can’t be afraid to ask questions, right? And I’ll be the first person to be like, “I have no idea.

00:21:36.788 –> 00:21:37.448
Let me find out.

00:21:37.448 –> 00:21:43.918
Let me do my homework on that.” Because you’re getting ready to present to a community that’s trusting you to have the right information.

00:21:44.238 –> 00:21:47.638
And if you don’t have the right information, that’s not the problem.

00:21:47.658 –> 00:21:49.368
It’s when you give wrong information.

00:21:49.378 –> 00:21:54.078
Say, “I need to look into that. I’ll get back to you.” So I, I’m blessed to have a good team here.

00:21:54.158 –> 00:22:00.848
I’m blessed that we have a lot of support from the community, uh, and I’m very proud of, of the progress that, that we’ve made and, and the direction we’re going in.

00:22:00.848 –> 00:22:03.708
So yeah, it’s, it’s definitely a team effort, Kevin.

00:22:03.708 –> 00:22:05.438
It’s, it’s definitely not one person.

00:22:05.448 –> 00:22:07.528
It’s a lot of work, but good work, good

00:22:07.664 –> 00:22:08.534
Kevin Stoller: Yeah, for sure.

00:22:08.584 –> 00:22:09.184
For sure.

00:22:09.204 –> 00:22:10.054
Without a doubt.

00:22:10.354 –> 00:22:23.807
Yeah, I mean, I, I’d love to hear, ’cause I know we talk about this a lot too, of like, this is the once in, you know, a generation,
like, type of opportunity for a community to build a new school in this ca- ‘Cause this is, this is high school number four, right, for

00:22:23.927 –> 00:22:24.877
Dr. George Hummer: This is four for us.

00:22:24.877 –> 00:22:25.407
Yes, sir

00:22:25.567 –> 00:22:27.627
Kevin Stoller: So there, there’s a lot of dynamics in there, right?

00:22:27.627 –> 00:22:39.684
Like you gotta, you gotta, like you’re, you’re dealing with sports teams and changes and things that, that can happen that are really shaping what the community looks like, for the next decade to five decades.

00:22:40.011 –> 00:22:43.631
When, when you look back at this, what, what to you would be…

00:22:43.651 –> 00:22:44.991
What would success look like?

00:22:45.051 –> 00:22:55.911
If you’re looking this, you know, 20, 30 years down the road and looking at, at the impact on the community, what are the things that in your mind you’re looking at and saying, “I hope, I hope it accomplishes this”?

00:22:56.570 –> 00:23:03.840
Dr. George Hummer: It needs to accomplish getting the community to believe in us, no matter who is in this seat, to get future requests.

00:23:04.050 –> 00:23:13.080
And, and that was the driving message through this whole process, was this fourth high school was larger than the fourth high school.

00:23:13.340 –> 00:23:27.090
Because we have a lot of needs in Frederick County of growth, but also of taking care of our current assets, like schools that have been built in the ’60s that haven’t been renovated, HVAC systems that are supposed to be a 10-year warranty and are going on 30.

00:23:27.350 –> 00:23:33.660
And you’re probably thinking, “Oh, wow, that’s pretty cool. You expanded a, a, a, an air conditioning unit to, to 30 years.” No.

00:23:33.680 –> 00:23:36.220
It, it’s every day we’re repairing it.

00:23:36.440 –> 00:23:38.510
We have duct tape on these devices.

00:23:38.690 –> 00:23:42.030
You can’t order the parts anymore, so we’re… And I’m not exaggerating.

00:23:42.040 –> 00:23:44.080
Like, we have to go to eBay to buy parts.

00:23:44.310 –> 00:23:47.080
It’s man-hours to keep these things going.

00:23:47.250 –> 00:23:53.964
But because we have such a great team and so many people that are dedicated, they’re continuously doing these things, but it’s burning us out.

00:23:53.974 –> 00:23:57.454
Like, we can’t keep doing that, and it’s not good for the community or our kids.

00:23:57.454 –> 00:24:03.384
And then, so like when, when we had the first week of school last week, I, you know, I, I’m always out in the schools a lot, and I’m like: “Hey, what do you need?

00:24:03.384 –> 00:24:05.984
What do you need?” And I mean that, and I have a really good memory.

00:24:06.144 –> 00:24:08.724
And it’s, “I, I wish my AC worked.” Okay.

00:24:08.724 –> 00:24:09.964
Well, let’s get up there and fix it.

00:24:09.964 –> 00:24:16.854
And, “Hey, it’s a little too humid in my room.” And you walk in and it’s not like, like it’s supposed to be 72 degrees and it’s 73.

00:24:16.874 –> 00:24:19.584
Like, you walk in, it’s like 85 degrees in there, right?

00:24:19.584 –> 00:24:20.534
And it’s the middle of summer.

00:24:20.854 –> 00:24:24.934
You could teaching, you know, 25 kids all day in an 85-degree room.

00:24:24.934 –> 00:24:26.584
That’s not okay for anybody.

00:24:26.917 –> 00:24:31.587
so we just wanna make sure we, we get that trust, genuinely speaking.

00:24:31.827 –> 00:24:39.087
We build that rapport with the community of, “I promise you that I will not present something to you that is a want.”

00:24:39.387 –> 00:24:40.467
These are needs.

00:24:40.647 –> 00:24:45.657
There is, is, is things that we need to be better at in regards to getting the funding and the support.

00:24:45.677 –> 00:24:55.484
And we are getting a lot more support because of that front-end work to, to just convince, and I don’t like to use the word convince, but to show that these are the things that, that we need to do.

00:24:55.634 –> 00:24:56.864
So that, that’s number one.

00:24:57.064 –> 00:25:04.084
But with all of that, the, the overarching thing, Kevin, to answer that question explicitly is, we have to invest in our students.

00:25:04.354 –> 00:25:06.864
Not just here in Frederick County, not just in Virginia.

00:25:06.864 –> 00:25:07.784
Across the country.

00:25:08.034 –> 00:25:09.634
Like, our kids are gonna replace us.

00:25:09.914 –> 00:25:13.704
Regardless if you believe in public schools or not, our kids are going to replace us.

00:25:13.924 –> 00:25:28.984
And there’s a lot of great things happening in public schools, and there’s a lot of great things that we can offer our kids and provide for them so that when they
do take over for us and they’re sitting here with goofy headphones on and talking to you great individuals, they, they could say the same things that we’re saying.

00:25:28.984 –> 00:25:33.184
We wanna provide for them to give them the pathway so that they’re able to be successful.

00:25:33.455 –> 00:25:37.845
and that’s what we have to do is, is we have to invest in our students, number one.

00:25:38.414 –> 00:26:00.650
Kevin Stoller: I, I guess as we’re, we’re wrapping up, I– the, the piece of, you know, coming back to your story of special education and getting in from that angle of
that was your first exposure into, into education, how much does that change your mindset, um, versus if you didn’t go down that path to begin with and, and have that?

00:26:00.650 –> 00:26:02.170
I just would love to hear kind of

00:26:02.180 –> 00:26:03.800
the, the view that

00:26:03.800 –> 00:26:04.780
you’re putting to this.

00:26:04.998 –> 00:26:05.468
Dr. George Hummer: Yeah.

00:26:05.468 –> 00:26:06.828
Yeah, I get that question all the time.

00:26:06.828 –> 00:26:14.457
So it’s, it’s three, three areas that, having that special education background and foundation have really helped me on this, this journey.

00:26:14.507 –> 00:26:24.357
Um, so, so the first is, and I kind of touched on this a little earlier, is just empathy, bringing people together, truly listening, truly involving people.

00:26:24.537 –> 00:26:28.187
Like I just shared with you of, of bringing everyone together and not having too many voices.

00:26:28.187 –> 00:26:29.847
Well, there’s no such thing as too many voices.

00:26:30.107 –> 00:26:40.847
Bring people together and the la- and you can have nothing against me if, if you didn’t agree with me, fine, but I still gave you the opportunity to provide your, the opportunity for you to share your voice.

00:26:41.047 –> 00:26:53.203
So number one is bringing people together, hearing people out, listening, truly listening, and being able to put all the pieces together to move a project forward, in this case a, a fourth high school.

00:26:53.203 –> 00:26:54.243
So that, that’s the first thing.

00:26:54.563 –> 00:26:56.843
The second thing is structure.

00:26:57.633 –> 00:27:17.199
Structure is what keeps our kids with disabilities receiving the services and the supports they need, from goals to accommodations to testing
any level of, of support, is there’s a process, and you have to follow that process because for us, I’m dealing with 3,000 staff and 14,500 kids.

00:27:17.519 –> 00:27:23.089
That’s a lot, and if you don’t have structure, then you do not have a successful organization.

00:27:23.329 –> 00:27:27.909
So having that structure, providing that why, like I’m a huge SOP guy.

00:27:28.209 –> 00:27:32.149
I have a lot of those standard operating procedures with everything that we do.

00:27:32.149 –> 00:27:39.689
I know I drive my team crazy with that, but then when we go through a situation or we go through buying a fifth middle, uh, high school, it’s like, “Stop.

00:27:39.909 –> 00:27:41.349
Let’s go back to our process.

00:27:41.509 –> 00:27:42.889
These are the things we need to do.

00:27:43.089 –> 00:27:44.209
This is what’s successful.

00:27:44.219 –> 00:28:06.920
This wasn’t successful,” and just continuously pushing a- and providing that structure, uh, of what we need to do. And then the, the third one is that everybody,
everybody has the opportunity to offer something. when you have students with disabilities that get this, stigma, right, of like, “Oh, they’re in a special ed class.

00:28:06.920 –> 00:28:09.180
They’re probably not gonna go anywhere.” I hate that.

00:28:09.410 –> 00:28:14.620
All of our kids can offer something, and we have kids with IEPs that go to college.

00:28:14.710 –> 00:28:17.440
We have kids with IEPs that become superintendents.

00:28:17.530 –> 00:28:21.050
We have kids with IEPs that make it in other aspects of their life.

00:28:21.200 –> 00:28:24.540
I don’t like shorting people just because of the label that they have.

00:28:24.790 –> 00:28:26.340
Same thing applies to us.

00:28:26.540 –> 00:28:28.580
Same thing applies to bringing people together.

00:28:28.800 –> 00:28:32.120
We should not short people just because they disagree with the fourth high school.

00:28:32.340 –> 00:28:34.950
Those are the folks I love to talk to the most, right?

00:28:34.950 –> 00:28:36.540
Like, “Oh, don’t, don’t talk to that family.

00:28:36.540 –> 00:28:38.070
They don’t, they don’t like the fourth high school.

00:28:38.070 –> 00:28:41.410
They don’t like public ed.” I wanna talk to them because I wanna learn.

00:28:41.520 –> 00:28:44.920
I wanna know why they don’t, and maybe I can convince them, or maybe I can learn from them.

00:28:44.930 –> 00:28:46.320
Maybe they had a bad experience.

00:28:46.510 –> 00:28:48.740
Maybe they were sold information that wasn’t right.

00:28:48.910 –> 00:28:54.130
Like that, and honestly, guys, that’s what got us the fourth high school, and I’ll never forget it.

00:28:54.160 –> 00:28:58.832
I was talking to a, to a, an, a gentleman who was completely opposed to the fourth high school.

00:28:59.262 –> 00:29:02.452
And, uh, and I, as I share with you, I’m like: I wanna, I wanna talk to this guy.

00:29:02.482 –> 00:29:05.072
And they’re like: “No, don’t talk to this guy.” I said: “I wanna talk to this guy.” Great.

00:29:05.072 –> 00:29:07.712
So sat down with him, very respectful, said: “Talk me through this.”

00:29:07.712 –> 00:29:17.362
And they’re like: “I don’t want my taxes to go up by $100,000.” “Tell me more about that.” “Well, I was told that my taxes are going up $100,000.” I was like: “Sir, that’s not true.

00:29:17.922 –> 00:29:18.672
That is not true.

00:29:18.702 –> 00:29:20.292
It is not gonna go up $100,000.

00:29:20.332 –> 00:29:27.252
It might go up slightly, it might go up a little bit, but it is not going up $100,000.” And he’s like: “Well, you, you guys, our numbers aren’t right.”

00:29:27.252 –> 00:29:29.242
So I pulled up the, the chart I just shared with you.

00:29:29.682 –> 00:29:38.632
He comes to me to this day and thanks me for that, and he’s a believer in why we need to invest in kids, and he’s a believer that we need the fourth high school to this day.

00:29:38.742 –> 00:29:39.912
Like, that’s a true story.

00:29:40.152 –> 00:29:50.385
And he might be listening to this one day, I don’t know, but it is a true story, and you just have to be genuine and not sell people short, and that, that’s that foundation that, that I had.

00:29:50.395 –> 00:29:56.365
And, and like I shared with you, it wasn’t just because of special ed, it’s just how I was raised and, and helping others and supporting others around me.

00:29:57.057 –> 00:29:57.097
Kevin Stoller: Yeah.

00:29:57.307 –> 00:29:58.177
Man, that’s great.

00:29:58.337 –> 00:30:00.127
You actually hit my last question on there.

00:30:00.157 –> 00:30:01.247
So I’m gonna have another one here.

00:30:01.607 –> 00:30:02.677
You said you’re a sports guy.

00:30:02.677 –> 00:30:04.627
What, what, what’s your go-to sports analogy?

00:30:04.627 –> 00:30:09.737
What sport do you typically, typically refer to when you’re, when you’re trying to get

00:30:10.023 –> 00:30:21.283
Dr. George Hummer: man, I, you know, I, I was, I was using a sports analogy the other day because we’re, uh, we’re making a lot of progress, and I was a football coach when I was– I was a football and basketball coach, played basketball my entire life.

00:30:21.362 –> 00:30:27.172
I u- always use the analogy of my first two seasons when I was coaching, we were, we were 0 and 16, right?

00:30:27.182 –> 00:30:27.732
It was tough.

00:30:27.752 –> 00:30:28.552
Kids were down.

00:30:28.762 –> 00:30:30.012
But these are middle school kids, right?

00:30:30.012 –> 00:30:35.472
So you have to be like: “Hey guys, we got this. I know we lost 14 to seven, but you scored seven,” you know, and you’re, like, building them up.

00:30:35.682 –> 00:30:38.912
But then my last three seasons, we started to win, right?

00:30:38.912 –> 00:30:43.032
And we– And the last season be- before I w-went on to administration, we made the playoffs, you know.

00:30:43.362 –> 00:30:46.492
And you don’t– You, you have to change your, your approach.

00:30:46.522 –> 00:30:54.162
Now you have to say: “All right, guys, we won 14 to seven, but we almost lost ’cause of that one play.” And you have to continue to coach them through and get them through.

00:30:54.162 –> 00:30:59.159
So I always tell my administrators and my team it’s, it’s called situational leadership, and that hasn’t failed me.

00:30:59.159 –> 00:31:06.169
You have to know when to pick people up, and you have to know when you have to be a little bit more critical so that you’re able to, to find that balance.

00:31:06.189 –> 00:31:10.979
Nobody likes to be told what they’re doing wrong every single second of every single day, right?

00:31:11.179 –> 00:31:16.229
But you have to make sure that you’re providing them that coaching of: “Good job, but now let’s do this.”

00:31:16.709 –> 00:31:19.279
But there’s some times where you probably don’t wanna do that, right?

00:31:19.279 –> 00:31:21.269
And, and provide that, that analogy there.

00:31:21.269 –> 00:31:24.329
So, I, I would, you know, football, basketball, wherever, you know.

00:31:24.329 –> 00:31:30.679
I alway- I always say don’t swing at every pitch, you know, when somebody comes forward and come, and is, is sharing some, some feedback.

00:31:30.679 –> 00:31:34.199
Like, you, I know you probably wanna say something like: “That’s not right,” but you just say: “Thank you.

00:31:34.199 –> 00:31:36.099
I’ll look into it.” Like, don’t swing at every pitch.

00:31:36.099 –> 00:31:37.369
I tell everyone that all the time.

00:31:37.435 –> 00:31:39.365
it, it really applies to what we do every day.

00:31:39.415 –> 00:31:42.545
Uh, it, it’s, it is a great, great journey that I’ve had so far.

00:31:43.241 –> 00:31:43.761
Kevin Stoller: Perfect.

00:31:43.881 –> 00:31:44.601
Well, this is great.

00:31:44.601 –> 00:31:46.801
Thank you for taking the time to talk through this here.

00:31:46.801 –> 00:31:53.398
I, our hope is we do this, uh, in affiliation with the Association for Learning Environments and a few other ones.

00:31:53.398 –> 00:32:00.498
But this topic in particular for this A4LE environment is, is really where it’s the ones that are building schools.

00:32:00.848 –> 00:32:09.009
Um, so it’s the architects and the ones that are involved on the school leadership side that, are going through this process because it, it is really important.

00:32:09.009 –> 00:32:16.239
And to hear your experience, it’s really helpful, uh, for others that are going through this to, to not have to start from scratch.

00:32:16.761 –> 00:32:17.131
Dr. George Hummer: That’s right.

00:32:17.191 –> 00:32:17.371
That’s

00:32:17.669 –> 00:32:18.259
Kevin Stoller: to figure it out.

00:32:18.259 –> 00:32:19.229
So I appreciate that.

00:32:19.229 –> 00:32:24.048
If anyone wanted to, um, learn any more, best way to just kinda go through your website?

00:32:24.048 –> 00:32:24.428
Or what

00:32:24.474 –> 00:32:24.984
Dr. George Hummer: Yeah.

00:32:24.984 –> 00:32:25.434
Yeah.

00:32:25.434 –> 00:32:27.654
I’m, I’m, I’m a very responsive person.

00:32:27.654 –> 00:32:28.894
I love chatting with other people.

00:32:28.894 –> 00:32:31.644
I, I mentor a lot of people across the country, have a lot of conversations.

00:32:31.644 –> 00:32:34.744
But just send me an email, uh, or go to our website and give us a call.

00:32:34.744 –> 00:32:38.804
I, I’m more than happy to have a conversation and talk more about what we’re going through here in Frederick County.

00:32:38.894 –> 00:32:39.154
Love to

00:32:39.200 –> 00:32:39.580
Kevin Stoller: Perfect.

00:32:39.950 –> 00:32:40.440
Awesome.

00:32:40.470 –> 00:32:41.760
Well, thank you for your time.

00:32:42.080 –> 00:32:50.650
Just a reminder to the listeners, if you’re not already subscribed, whether you are watching it on YouTube or listening on Spotify or Apple, wherever it is, hit the subscribe button on there.

00:32:50.650 –> 00:32:53.260
That way you’ll get notifications of new episodes.

00:32:53.510 –> 00:32:57.860
Um, or you can always just go to, uh, betterlearningpodcast.com.

00:32:57.870 –> 00:32:59.468
That’s kind of the hub, in there.

00:32:59.468 –> 00:33:04.739
So, and we are always looking to get, interesting topics and speakers.

00:33:04.749 –> 00:33:09.399
So, uh, so if you have recommendations, we get a lot through there as well.

00:33:09.767 –> 00:33:11.177
also any type of feedback.

00:33:11.317 –> 00:33:12.647
We, we always appreciate it.

00:33:12.657 –> 00:33:19.552
To your point, we love hearing the feedback so that we can make the adjustments and make sure that we’re providing some good value in when we do these, so.

00:33:19.942 –> 00:33:22.322
But Dr. George Hummer, I appreciate it.

00:33:22.352 –> 00:33:29.492
I’m excited to see when, when, uh, the new high school’s done and, uh, just love, love hearing your positivity and the energy to everything you bring

00:33:30.012 –> 00:33:30.602
Dr. George Hummer: Absolutely.

00:33:30.612 –> 00:33:31.602
Thanks for having me, guys.

00:33:31.622 –> 00:33:32.112
Appreciate it

00:33:33.915 –> 00:33:38.375
The Better Learning Podcast is produced by Matt Rogers and edited by Kelly Jones.

00:33:39.055 –> 00:33:48.425
The views and opinions shared on this podcast are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily represent the perspectives of their affiliated companies, organizations, or associations