Read Transcript:

00:00:00.000 –> 00:00:03.071
So growing up there, I got to see
firsthand how the school system

00:00:03.072 –> 00:00:04.150
was kind of an afterthought.

00:00:04.571 –> 00:00:07.942
It’s not that our parents didn’t think
that school was important, it’s just

00:00:07.960 –> 00:00:10.959
they didn’t think that was the piece that
was gonna lead to your success in life.

00:00:11.017 –> 00:00:15.193
And that didn’t sit well with me at
all because I knew that these kids

00:00:15.306 –> 00:00:19.574
placed in a different zip code the
world would be completely open to them.

00:00:19.956 –> 00:00:22.638
There’s a fractal of competition
in education I don’t understand.

00:00:22.640 –> 00:00:26.061
I grew up in sports, played
a lot of sports in my life.

00:00:26.061 –> 00:00:27.386
It took me a lot of places.

00:00:27.792 –> 00:00:30.519
I understand competition on
the floor or on the field.

00:00:30.663 –> 00:00:31.099
Mm-hmm.

00:00:31.523 –> 00:00:34.775
Pitting teachers against each other
in classrooms based on test scores,

00:00:34.809 –> 00:00:37.800
pitting schools against each other
in the same district based on test

00:00:37.800 –> 00:00:40.979
scores of we’re better than this versus
we should be building collaborative

00:00:40.979 –> 00:00:43.142
systems where we can share across.

00:00:51.073 –> 00:00:52.295
Hey, everyone.

00:00:52.295 –> 00:00:55.288
Welcome to the Better Learning Podcast.

00:00:55.557 –> 00:01:04.406
Today, our guest is Mark Odsather, the
unbelievable servant and superintendent

00:01:04.406 –> 00:01:07.327
of Pleasant View Elementary
School District in Tulare County.

00:01:07.337 –> 00:01:08.714
He’s been here since 2010.

00:01:09.059 –> 00:01:13.331
His roots go back to the community,
back to 1998, when he arrived

00:01:13.331 –> 00:01:14.388
as a fourth grade teacher.

00:01:14.941 –> 00:01:16.863
Raised in Medina, Washington.

00:01:17.476 –> 00:01:21.210
Quite a different, uh, zip
code than where he is now, and,

00:01:21.212 –> 00:01:22.254
uh, w- we’ll get into that.

00:01:22.254 –> 00:01:26.044
But Mark’s on early about the
success comes from access, networks,

00:01:26.044 –> 00:01:27.889
and experiences outside of school.

00:01:28.535 –> 00:01:32.713
Made it his mission to give rural Central
Valley students those same opportunities,

00:01:32.713 –> 00:01:35.948
and under his leadership, Pleasant View,
a small district where most families

00:01:35.950 –> 00:01:39.755
qualify for free and reduced lunch, and
nearly half the students are English

00:01:39.758 –> 00:01:43.409
learners, has become a nationally
recognized model for competency-based,

00:01:43.595 –> 00:01:45.075
learner-centered education.

00:01:45.826 –> 00:01:49.177
The district has replaced traditional
classrooms with shared learning spaces,

00:01:49.195 –> 00:01:53.654
adopted the ARC framework, originally
developed by Luminares Schools in

00:01:53.657 –> 00:01:58.159
Brazil, and uses the Arc Mosaico
platform to make skills like the

00:01:58.161 –> 00:02:00.075
collaboration and perseverance visible.

00:02:00.403 –> 00:02:04.033
Mark is now expanding his work through the
international partnerships that connect

00:02:04.042 –> 00:02:06.401
educators and students across borders.

00:02:07.007 –> 00:02:11.175
And it’s amazing that I had an
opportunity to walk through both

00:02:11.175 –> 00:02:14.621
schools with, uh, Mark today, and we’ll
get into a little bit about that, but

00:02:14.837 –> 00:02:16.047
thanks for being with us, my friend.

00:02:16.195 –> 00:02:16.688
You bet.

00:02:17.230 –> 00:02:21.651
So g- give me a little bit of, uh, the
juxtaposition of growing up in Medina.

00:02:21.967 –> 00:02:26.554
Some people don’t know where that is,
but it’s, it’s a fairly wealthy zip

00:02:26.555 –> 00:02:35.333
code And then being in, um, one of what
the demographic surveys consider this

00:02:35.340 –> 00:02:39.975
is one of the poorest zip codes in not
only California, but United States.

00:02:40.198 –> 00:02:40.638
Correct.

00:02:40.652 –> 00:02:41.209
Talk to me.

00:02:41.360 –> 00:02:44.629
Yeah, I- So growing up, I’m, I’m
from the northwest originally.

00:02:44.663 –> 00:02:47.710
M- Medina is a suburb of Seattle.

00:02:48.071 –> 00:02:51.634
Actually it’s closest to Bellevue, which
is just right across Lake Washington.

00:02:51.722 –> 00:02:55.099
It’s most notably probably
known as the home of Bill Gates.

00:02:55.619 –> 00:02:59.684
So those are the types of families that
I grew up around in the, I think it’s

00:02:59.687 –> 00:03:01.341
now referred to as the Golden Coast.

00:03:01.439 –> 00:03:05.118
Uh- … uh, which obviously during
the tech industry kind of exploded up

00:03:05.119 –> 00:03:08.434
there in the northwest, that’s where a
lot of people ended up, uh, those big

00:03:08.436 –> 00:03:10.464
executives ended up moving to was Medina.

00:03:10.913 –> 00:03:13.984
So growing up there, I got to see
firsthand how the school system

00:03:13.985 –> 00:03:15.063
was kind of an afterthought.

00:03:15.484 –> 00:03:18.855
It’s not that our parents didn’t think
that school was important, it’s just

00:03:18.873 –> 00:03:21.872
they didn’t think that was the piece that
was gonna lead to your success in life.

00:03:21.950 –> 00:03:24.163
It was through social
capital, building networks.

00:03:24.163 –> 00:03:28.153
I, I was surrounded by, uh, fathers
who were CEOs of major companies.

00:03:28.564 –> 00:03:32.008
And they always imparted on all of us
that we were gonna be successful in life.

00:03:32.525 –> 00:03:35.439
And my friends and I didn’t know how
or why they would say that, because

00:03:35.445 –> 00:03:38.677
looking at ourselves we didn’t
necessarily feel that way, but they were

00:03:38.678 –> 00:03:40.546
thinking bigger picture, longer term.

00:03:40.641 –> 00:03:43.554
And so growing up in that
environment, like school was

00:03:43.554 –> 00:03:46.625
important, but it was to get into
good schools to build social capital.

00:03:46.846 –> 00:03:48.728
It wasn’t necessarily the education part.

00:03:48.797 –> 00:03:52.227
And then when I first moved to
the Central Valley my wife is

00:03:52.228 –> 00:03:55.693
originally from here thought it was
just gonna be a stop along the way.

00:03:55.913 –> 00:03:56.374
Mm-hmm.

00:03:56.402 –> 00:03:56.575
Yeah.

00:03:56.575 –> 00:03:59.884
Uh, I had got done playing basketball
over in Europe and was thinking of

00:03:59.884 –> 00:04:02.484
getting into coaching and started
working out here at Pleasant View and

00:04:02.484 –> 00:04:04.954
just fell in love with the community
and the kids and saw the need.

00:04:05.304 –> 00:04:08.989
And then saw that juxtaposition that
you were talking about, just the,

00:04:09.038 –> 00:04:14.371
The fact that we had these amazing
learners, but the expectations for them

00:04:14.617 –> 00:04:15.849
were just to get through high school.

00:04:16.480 –> 00:04:20.815
And that didn’t sit well with me at
all because I, I knew that these kids

00:04:20.927 –> 00:04:25.195
placed in a different zip code the
world would be completely open to them.

00:04:25.577 –> 00:04:29.281
And so then setting out on like, well,
then how do you, how do you transform?

00:04:29.282 –> 00:04:32.111
When I, moved into the business
manager position first, which

00:04:32.111 –> 00:04:35.020
I think was extremely valuable,
’cause sometimes we don’t align

00:04:35.020 –> 00:04:36.612
resources to educational goals.

00:04:36.612 –> 00:04:37.011
Right.

00:04:37.133 –> 00:04:37.407
Right.

00:04:37.452 –> 00:04:41.000
And then took over as superintendent
in 2010 and then happened to meet

00:04:41.000 –> 00:04:43.629
some people along the way that
shifted my mindset about how to,

00:04:43.839 –> 00:04:45.343
how to build the system side of it.

00:04:45.818 –> 00:04:46.738
But that was really it.

00:04:46.750 –> 00:04:50.539
Like, the need I saw was here,
but the kids, the talent was here.

00:04:50.591 –> 00:04:53.718
It’s just the system wasn’t allowing
the teachers or the kids to thrive.

00:04:53.926 –> 00:04:54.248
Yeah.

00:04:54.250 –> 00:04:55.887
So i- it’s interesting, you know.

00:04:55.887 –> 00:05:00.139
I’ve, I’ve walked through hundreds if
not thousands of schools in my life,

00:05:00.511 –> 00:05:06.611
and walking through these classrooms
today, i- it gave me hope, right?

00:05:06.636 –> 00:05:10.207
And so, you know, driving here,
it’s, you know, it’s all orchards

00:05:10.207 –> 00:05:12.121
and fields and, and farms.

00:05:12.122 –> 00:05:14.220
You see workers driving through here.

00:05:14.220 –> 00:05:20.269
And then you come across these two
amazing schools, and k- kids are

00:05:20.269 –> 00:05:26.734
working, and there, there’s, you
know, l- m- limited adjoining walls.

00:05:27.008 –> 00:05:30.347
You’ve got teacher sharing
spaces, kids going back and forth.

00:05:31.347 –> 00:05:35.687
And an outsider would think, “Oh, this is
total chaos. You cannot learn or expect

00:05:35.689 –> 00:05:42.643
kids to learn here.” Talk to me about, uh,
the whole modus be- behind what you did.

00:05:42.789 –> 00:05:46.057
So I think, yeah, I think people,
most people would think chaos

00:05:46.058 –> 00:05:47.485
but it is a controlled chaos.

00:05:47.490 –> 00:05:47.579
Yeah.

00:05:47.579 –> 00:05:50.177
I think, you know, I always share
with people, I have, uh, worked

00:05:50.177 –> 00:05:52.964
closely over the years with Elizabeth
City, who’s at the Graduate School

00:05:52.964 –> 00:05:55.991
of Ed- Education at Harvard, and
her and I talk a lot about fractals.

00:05:56.500 –> 00:06:00.649
These patterns of you know, like
a snowflake is, is a fractal.

00:06:00.656 –> 00:06:04.527
It’s a similar pattern at different
scales, and the, the traditional one

00:06:04.528 –> 00:06:06.172
in education is command and control.

00:06:06.295 –> 00:06:06.776
Mm-hmm.

00:06:06.805 –> 00:06:10.004
So state tells schools what to do,
schools tell district leaders tell

00:06:10.004 –> 00:06:11.410
principals tell teachers tell kids.

00:06:11.539 –> 00:06:14.568
And so the traditional fractal there
is more of, like, paint by numbers

00:06:14.865 –> 00:06:18.296
versus Pleasantview’s more of a
Jackson Pollock drip painting, which-

00:06:18.296 –> 00:06:18.839
Yes

00:06:18.882 –> 00:06:22.067
… there is some chaos, but
it’s controlled, right?

00:06:22.083 –> 00:06:26.723
Like, and I think for our kids
originally, uh, we put teachers in

00:06:26.724 –> 00:06:29.388
isolation in the system, which I
don’t think is healthy for teachers.

00:06:29.388 –> 00:06:30.754
We talk about PLCs.

00:06:30.791 –> 00:06:34.175
Most of the time I think those things
are professional discussion communities.

00:06:34.175 –> 00:06:36.233
I don’t know that there’s a lot
of learning that takes place that

00:06:36.233 –> 00:06:38.101
drives improvement in systems.

00:06:38.773 –> 00:06:42.673
But so we knew that we needed
to build a more collaborative

00:06:42.706 –> 00:06:44.133
environment to share decisions.

00:06:44.133 –> 00:06:48.904
So our original problem of practice years
ago, or our theory of action was can

00:06:48.905 –> 00:06:57.083
we build a school system where lateral
accountability develops and, um, the

00:06:57.084 –> 00:07:02.522
self-efficacy of all learners in the
system grows alongside of that, and

00:07:02.603 –> 00:07:04.306
can we make it completely transparent?

00:07:04.763 –> 00:07:09.083
So everything you see out here is
just who we are, and from there, then

00:07:09.085 –> 00:07:12.191
we can build out all the pieces and
processes that we need to improve.

00:07:12.255 –> 00:07:16.719
Yeah, and I… The biggest thing
I saw, as a teacher, a principal,

00:07:16.985 –> 00:07:21.293
watching your work and others, once
we remove the big C, compliance.

00:07:21.762 –> 00:07:23.641
Yeah, you know, we want kids to be safe.

00:07:23.920 –> 00:07:25.333
We want our schools to be safe.

00:07:26.172 –> 00:07:30.633
But w- whose rule are we following,
and why did they create that, right?

00:07:30.633 –> 00:07:34.964
So when you walk through these school
rooms, teachers are driving the learning,

00:07:35.198 –> 00:07:41.282
kids are leading the learning, and, you
know, what makes that different here?

00:07:41.847 –> 00:07:48.183
So I think th- there’s another C there,
too: curriculum, which to me- I don’t

00:07:48.183 –> 00:07:51.826
wanna get in too much trouble with
curriculum people But like curriculum

00:07:51.842 –> 00:07:54.082
is a constraint for kids of poverty.

00:07:54.775 –> 00:07:54.909
Mm.

00:07:54.910 –> 00:07:56.206
And somebody has- Yep … to say it.

00:07:56.356 –> 00:07:56.599
Yeah.

00:07:56.629 –> 00:08:02.465
You’re limiting kids to something, a
textbook or whatever, and they don’t

00:08:02.474 –> 00:08:06.287
have the breadth of experiences that my
friends and I got growing up in Medina or

00:08:06.290 –> 00:08:10.470
Bellevue, Washington, that we got before
we even entered the school or got after

00:08:10.471 –> 00:08:12.059
the school day ended or on the weekends.

00:08:12.525 –> 00:08:17.306
And my kids need access to a breadth of
experiences, and if you limit it to a

00:08:17.306 –> 00:08:22.327
textbook, not that a textbook can’t play
a role in it, but it shouldn’t be the cap.

00:08:22.589 –> 00:08:26.474
And so we want kids to discover
what their interests are, and then

00:08:26.475 –> 00:08:27.757
we can build learning around it.

00:08:27.771 –> 00:08:31.399
We want teachers to, to, to work
alongside the kids to come up with

00:08:31.400 –> 00:08:34.010
what kids are interested in and
then build the learning around it.

00:08:34.019 –> 00:08:37.504
So the skills then get infused
into that, but the kids are the

00:08:37.506 –> 00:08:39.791
ones generating the questions.

00:08:40.264 –> 00:08:45.603
So w- when you first thought
about designing the space- Who

00:08:45.618 –> 00:08:49.368
was included in some of those
conversations a- and discussions

00:08:49.966 –> 00:08:51.896
that works with these kids every day?

00:08:52.836 –> 00:08:53.811
So it’s interesting.

00:08:53.820 –> 00:08:57.452
Originally, when I, I had worked
with Richard Elmore, who, uh, passed

00:08:57.452 –> 00:09:00.589
away right after COVID, but had
led the h- uh, Graduate School of

00:09:00.590 –> 00:09:02.136
Education at Harvard for a long time.

00:09:02.160 –> 00:09:06.179
And Richard had done work all over the
w- the world on competency-based learning

00:09:06.179 –> 00:09:09.874
and sh- had shared pictures with me
of high schools in Australia that are

00:09:09.921 –> 00:09:13.539
2,000 kids and no walls, big facilities.

00:09:13.544 –> 00:09:17.163
And, um … Which got us thinking
about, what does it really look like

00:09:17.163 –> 00:09:18.595
to build a collaborative practice?

00:09:18.601 –> 00:09:23.092
Because we have so much variability in our
classrooms from one day to the next, and

00:09:23.092 –> 00:09:25.246
… or from one teacher classroom to the next.

00:09:25.267 –> 00:09:28.336
And we see it in schools because
a lot of the times, parents will

00:09:28.346 –> 00:09:31.780
be waiting out to request, waiting
outside to request a teacher, and they

00:09:31.780 –> 00:09:34.687
really don’t know a lot about what
takes place in that classroom- Right

00:09:34.687 –> 00:09:38.454
other than that teacher tends to love
their children, and- Yeah … and we

00:09:38.454 –> 00:09:40.058
wanted to reduce that variability.

00:09:40.073 –> 00:09:43.722
And so, uh, we had some conversations,
but this was not a mandate.

00:09:43.786 –> 00:09:48.890
I had some teachers that asked if
they could try it, and then some other

00:09:48.891 –> 00:09:53.074
teachers saw it when we were doing
rounds and, and they came to me, uh,

00:09:53.090 –> 00:09:57.919
that spring, this was about 2014 or
’15, and asked if we could take out

00:09:57.919 –> 00:09:59.294
the walls between their classrooms.

00:09:59.294 –> 00:10:02.952
And so we grabbed a sledgehammer and
literally took them out during spring

00:10:02.953 –> 00:10:05.105
break, opened up some more grade levels.

00:10:05.116 –> 00:10:06.741
Didn’t mandate it across the system.

00:10:07.442 –> 00:10:09.435
Uh, so we had this
mixed system developing.

00:10:09.436 –> 00:10:11.520
We had traditional
classrooms and open ones.

00:10:11.565 –> 00:10:11.624
Mm-hmm.

00:10:11.624 –> 00:10:15.940
And we got to a point when we were
building a new set of wings in

00:10:15.952 –> 00:10:20.110
about 2016, where we, we finally,
the majority of the school was open

00:10:20.111 –> 00:10:23.946
classrooms, teachers working together
collaboratively, that we just said,

00:10:24.306 –> 00:10:27.078
“The rest of the walls are coming out,”
which was only a grade level or two.

00:10:27.106 –> 00:10:27.442
Yeah.

00:10:27.522 –> 00:10:31.725
And, um, then from there ever since,
and I, I don’t think if you tried to

00:10:31.725 –> 00:10:34.972
put walls back up in our classrooms, I
don’t think you’d make it out of here.

00:10:35.305 –> 00:10:35.813
Excellent.

00:10:35.871 –> 00:10:36.317
That’s good.

00:10:36.502 –> 00:10:40.293
So it’s funny, you know, the the other
C word, right, collaboration, oftentimes

00:10:40.295 –> 00:10:46.245
you see a group of humans or individuals,
and that collaborative, in quotes,

00:10:46.596 –> 00:10:49.844
group is often led by one person, right?

00:10:50.049 –> 00:10:53.858
So we’re in a group, but I’m
gonna talk direct and mandate

00:10:53.858 –> 00:10:54.762
what’s gonna happen, right?

00:10:55.245 –> 00:11:00.843
Talk to us about the collaboration because
when I don’t have a wall and I see Mark,

00:11:00.868 –> 00:11:05.911
I’ve gotta work with him because he’s
got different likes, isms, everything.

00:11:05.912 –> 00:11:08.865
And also our kids, they’re the
ones driving what we’re doing.

00:11:09.390 –> 00:11:10.771
Talk to me about their collaboration.

00:11:10.771 –> 00:11:11.858
So let’s kind of group that together.

00:11:11.858 –> 00:11:12.223
Yeah.

00:11:12.224 –> 00:11:13.792
So I’ll, I’ll start with the teachers.

00:11:13.824 –> 00:11:16.813
one of the benefits of the open classrooms
and teachers working alongside each

00:11:16.814 –> 00:11:18.867
other is we can build capacity quickly.

00:11:19.306 –> 00:11:22.762
Whereas most school districts spend a
lot of money on PD, and then they get

00:11:22.762 –> 00:11:27.180
turnover in their staff, or they’ve
got new teachers coming in, uh, our

00:11:27.181 –> 00:11:31.098
teachers get to learn together while
doing the work every single day.

00:11:31.115 –> 00:11:35.105
So you watch them take their interests
and their own personalities and add

00:11:35.107 –> 00:11:38.403
them to the group dynamic and then learn
how to work together collaboratively,

00:11:38.412 –> 00:11:39.727
the same thing we expect from our kids.

00:11:39.728 –> 00:11:43.092
So you go back to the fractal My
leadership team, if you walk into

00:11:43.093 –> 00:11:44.818
my office, I’m in the same office.

00:11:44.856 –> 00:11:46.071
I don’t have a private office.

00:11:46.072 –> 00:11:48.845
My office, I have the business
manager and HR accounts payable

00:11:48.845 –> 00:11:50.163
person in the same room as me.

00:11:50.509 –> 00:11:55.162
So when we talk aligning educational
resources, I know where we need to put

00:11:55.165 –> 00:11:56.808
things or where we can move things around.

00:11:56.819 –> 00:11:59.722
And then I work my principal
and my academic coaches

00:11:59.723 –> 00:12:00.913
are all in the same space.

00:12:01.387 –> 00:12:02.636
My teachers are in the same space.

00:12:02.636 –> 00:12:03.697
The kids are all in the same space.

00:12:03.706 –> 00:12:06.586
So that fractal of collaboration
lives through all different

00:12:06.587 –> 00:12:07.683
levels at Pleasant View.

00:12:07.963 –> 00:12:10.946
Um, and our kids are expected
to work collaboratively together

00:12:11.946 –> 00:12:12.208
Yeah.

00:12:12.209 –> 00:12:13.633
You know, it’s, it’s interesting.

00:12:14.633 –> 00:12:18.514
If you look facility-wise at
schools across the country, right?

00:12:18.514 –> 00:12:24.925
You get a lot of these bonds, schools
are built that they gotta be these big,

00:12:24.938 –> 00:12:30.809
beautiful buildings, and then teachers
put the desks back into the rows, and then

00:12:30.814 –> 00:12:33.933
all of a sudden the space becomes what?

00:12:34.933 –> 00:12:39.660
So what did you do, do to prepare teachers
differently to change the practice?

00:12:39.666 –> 00:12:43.032
Because you could still take a
wall down, but I’m still gonna

00:12:43.042 –> 00:12:45.262
have desks in rows and XYZ, right?

00:12:45.263 –> 00:12:45.517
So-

00:12:45.854 –> 00:12:46.126
Sure

00:12:46.136 –> 00:12:47.706
… what was the mindset behind that?

00:12:47.793 –> 00:12:51.227
Well, I think, again, uh, most of
us, our mental models are of the

00:12:51.228 –> 00:12:52.932
education system that we went through.

00:12:53.130 –> 00:12:57.439
So collaboration is not a strong suit
of something that was developed in

00:12:57.440 –> 00:12:58.900
our school systems for all of us.

00:12:58.914 –> 00:13:02.542
So learning how to work in that type of
space you know, I had done some work with

00:13:02.576 –> 00:13:06.973
The Table Group and Patrick Lencioni, who
wrote the, you know, Five Dysfunctions

00:13:06.977 –> 00:13:10.033
of a Team and- Yep … and some of that
stuff, and then even looking at what

00:13:10.035 –> 00:13:13.439
takes place kind of in the tech world
around how teams organize their work.

00:13:13.455 –> 00:13:16.246
We had built out some
structures for our teachers.

00:13:16.246 –> 00:13:19.146
So they have deliverable boards in
every classroom, which are the things

00:13:19.147 –> 00:13:25.251
kids, the bigger deliverables kids will,
will, uh, bring to, to them in, in some

00:13:25.251 –> 00:13:26.567
of the projects they’re working on.

00:13:27.053 –> 00:13:31.989
And then on top of that, our teachers
have their weekly lessons laid out,

00:13:32.010 –> 00:13:34.447
activities, on a whiteboard in the room.

00:13:34.592 –> 00:13:39.272
And so we have our deliverable board,
and we have that activity board that

00:13:39.273 –> 00:13:42.153
leads to their energy impact, and
so those things become very nimble.

00:13:42.465 –> 00:13:46.719
So if teachers see something going
sideways, a lesson on Monday, they

00:13:46.719 –> 00:13:48.685
can immediately change course.

00:13:48.767 –> 00:13:51.815
They go to their whiteboard, they talk
about it, they change what they’re doing.

00:13:52.296 –> 00:13:55.147
They also have a scoreboard where
they’re measuring what are the things

00:13:55.150 –> 00:13:58.482
that we’re measuring, and they’re
constantly using those things to

00:13:58.487 –> 00:14:00.001
be very nimble in their practice.

00:14:00.386 –> 00:14:03.085
Most school systems, they
ask for a lesson plan.

00:14:03.178 –> 00:14:06.741
Teachers go in to execute it day one,
things go sideways, and they just stick

00:14:06.742 –> 00:14:09.913
with the plan because it’s part of the
curriculum, the pacing guide, whatever.

00:14:10.368 –> 00:14:13.264
Our teachers have the ability to make
decisions in the moment and change the

00:14:13.266 –> 00:14:16.840
direction for the rest of the week or the
activities they, they have to do, and they

00:14:16.840 –> 00:14:20.623
align it with their energy impact board
that also is visible to all the kids.

00:14:21.129 –> 00:14:25.789
So they, they rank the things that are,
that are gonna have the greatest impact

00:14:25.790 –> 00:14:30.228
on children’s learning and will require
the most energy, and those are the things

00:14:30.228 –> 00:14:31.767
we want them to focus on during the week.

00:14:31.865 –> 00:14:35.386
Yeah, well, you can al- Yeah … you
also see the malleability, too, right?

00:14:35.387 –> 00:14:43.529
So you see the kids, they’re
having to understand how to contain

00:14:43.530 –> 00:14:48.573
oneself, and they can learn to
change and iterate and do things.

00:14:48.573 –> 00:14:53.404
And then the teachers are also malleable
because they’ve got 50 or 60 kids in

00:14:53.404 –> 00:14:55.474
a room instead of just 10, 20, 30.

00:14:55.617 –> 00:14:56.332
Yeah, absolutely.

00:14:56.332 –> 00:14:59.785
Self-regulation, which is one of these
things, honestly, like I’ve seen adults

00:14:59.787 –> 00:15:01.193
that struggle with self-regulation.

00:15:01.193 –> 00:15:01.492
Right.

00:15:01.492 –> 00:15:04.675
Go to big PD, and can they stay focused
on- … somebody talking to them?

00:15:04.681 –> 00:15:08.476
Like, I think that was the one thing
that when the, the team that had arrived

00:15:08.485 –> 00:15:12.798
from Brazil went into our classrooms
they were most impressed with, which

00:15:12.799 –> 00:15:14.585
was the self-regulation of our kids.

00:15:14.854 –> 00:15:16.697
So the whistle had blown from recess.

00:15:16.698 –> 00:15:19.272
Our kids came in while we were
talking in a different room.

00:15:19.272 –> 00:15:21.776
The kids all came in, sat down,
got right to work because they

00:15:21.776 –> 00:15:24.176
knew what was expected of them
and what they had to work on.

00:15:24.688 –> 00:15:29.599
We don’t have to… a- again, going back
to the chaos versus, like, control, by

00:15:29.600 –> 00:15:34.272
releasing control, we have more control
because the kids are the ones that are

00:15:34.345 –> 00:15:35.972
doing the, they’re controlling themselves.

00:15:36.049 –> 00:15:36.378
Yeah.

00:15:36.423 –> 00:15:39.624
And that, you know, that falls back on
conversation we had a little while ago.

00:15:39.637 –> 00:15:42.366
We were talking about, you know,
the ceiling or the limits, right?

00:15:42.366 –> 00:15:46.190
And so, you know, you walk out this
area, you see a big, beautiful blue

00:15:46.191 –> 00:15:53.303
sky, and limitations or expect-
versus expectations on students.

00:15:53.325 –> 00:15:55.330
Kind of share what your thoughts on that.

00:15:55.608 –> 00:15:59.959
I th- again, going back to my friends
in the community I grew up in, there was

00:15:59.970 –> 00:16:02.119
always high expectations placed around us.

00:16:02.373 –> 00:16:04.267
And again, when you’re young
and you’re growing up, you

00:16:04.267 –> 00:16:05.443
don’t fully understand that.

00:16:05.454 –> 00:16:09.684
As I got older, I realized that my
friends and I all just felt like

00:16:09.684 –> 00:16:11.019
we were gonna be successful- Mm-hmm

00:16:11.019 –> 00:16:15.586
really successful at whatever
career we chose, which I- all of my

00:16:15.587 –> 00:16:18.271
friends that I grew up with are very
successful, but all have different

00:16:18.271 –> 00:16:21.975
career choices and different paths,
but were- but are successful.

00:16:22.162 –> 00:16:27.237
And so my kids here at Pleasant View
they can do the same thing, right?

00:16:27.260 –> 00:16:31.229
I want them to pick what they’re
passionate about, follow it, and but

00:16:31.242 –> 00:16:35.114
success comes from certain skill sets,
and we can develop those skill sets.

00:16:35.479 –> 00:16:37.320
A lot of times they’re
referred to as soft skills.

00:16:37.359 –> 00:16:37.758
Mm-hmm.

00:16:38.143 –> 00:16:40.960
I just think they’re the skills that
make us successful in life, and actually,

00:16:40.961 –> 00:16:45.212
I think there was a study in 1916 by
the Mann Engineering School of and

00:16:45.223 –> 00:16:49.361
where they found that, like, greater
success and happiness in life came

00:16:49.362 –> 00:16:53.273
from people who had more well-developed
soft skills, and then I think Carnegie,

00:16:53.283 –> 00:16:56.683
Harvard, and Stanford replicated
it and found the exact same thing.

00:16:56.684 –> 00:17:01.124
But here we are focused on hard skills
predominantly in K-12 education.

00:17:01.703 –> 00:17:02.665
Yeah, definitely.

00:17:02.665 –> 00:17:07.691
So let’s jump and finish one more thing
with the, uh, the co-teaching model-ish.

00:17:08.218 –> 00:17:17.190
How did you, first of all, understand
and kind of marinate on trust and

00:17:17.202 –> 00:17:18.714
lateral accountability, right?

00:17:18.715 –> 00:17:22.968
We’ve got two adults, possibly
three, four, whatever, co-teaching.

00:17:23.689 –> 00:17:25.376
That lateral accountability, right?

00:17:25.411 –> 00:17:28.545
Like, Mark is watching
me, I’m watching Mark.

00:17:28.954 –> 00:17:30.769
Wh- where is that shift?

00:17:30.791 –> 00:17:32.316
So I, I’ll go back to the fractals.

00:17:32.317 –> 00:17:35.854
It’s interesting you bring that up
because the traditional fractal, when we

00:17:35.854 –> 00:17:39.969
first started releasing control to kids,
they would tell our teachers, “Well,

00:17:39.970 –> 00:17:41.365
you’re supposed to tell me what to do.”

00:17:42.044 –> 00:17:43.187
And the teachers wouldn’t tell them.

00:17:43.187 –> 00:17:43.843
They would sit.

00:17:44.103 –> 00:17:44.357
Yep.

00:17:44.403 –> 00:17:47.927
And we don’t want our kids looking to
the teacher for all of their answers.

00:17:48.498 –> 00:17:52.292
They can be a resource, but
they shouldn’t be the person

00:17:52.293 –> 00:17:53.801
making every decision for us.

00:17:54.113 –> 00:17:56.263
That’s not the people we want
going out in the workplace.

00:17:56.270 –> 00:17:56.346
Right.

00:17:56.350 –> 00:18:00.288
In fact, that’s what the workplace is, is
complaining about is that we need people

00:18:00.289 –> 00:18:04.775
that are critical thinkers, that are
collaborators, that are creative, and but

00:18:04.776 –> 00:18:07.704
we’re traditionally in our mental models
of education, what we’re really building

00:18:07.706 –> 00:18:10.790
is compliance, and they were, they were
designed to build compliant people.

00:18:10.841 –> 00:18:11.309
Yes.

00:18:11.418 –> 00:18:15.383
And so the same fractal
appears at every level, right?

00:18:15.384 –> 00:18:18.542
We want our teachers to be
creative, so they can’t be looking

00:18:18.542 –> 00:18:21.573
to Mr. Mark for approval, which
I’m known as Mr. Mark out here.

00:18:21.702 –> 00:18:25.371
But w- I don’t want them
looking t- for my validation.

00:18:25.843 –> 00:18:28.219
I want them to know they’re doing
a good job, just like I want my

00:18:28.219 –> 00:18:31.266
students to know what a good job
is by the work that they’re doing.

00:18:31.280 –> 00:18:35.756
And so releasing that pressure, which
I know our mental models, people

00:18:35.756 –> 00:18:39.735
will still feel like- they when
your administrator walks in the room

00:18:39.736 –> 00:18:41.294
that, you know, is he evaluating?

00:18:41.294 –> 00:18:44.231
But that’s a mental model
of school systems past.

00:18:44.242 –> 00:18:46.087
I don’t walk in evaluating.

00:18:46.464 –> 00:18:49.806
I honestly just walk in nowadays
especially just inspired by what I

00:18:49.818 –> 00:18:51.236
see taking place in my classrooms.

00:18:51.264 –> 00:18:56.182
I see my teachers who love children,
who are encouragers in their lives, and

00:18:56.183 –> 00:18:59.474
are supporting and guiding them, but
aren’t making the decisions for them.

00:19:00.105 –> 00:19:01.656
And I see the same thing in our kids.

00:19:01.656 –> 00:19:05.430
I see kids that are very compassionate
and empathetic towards one another.

00:19:05.430 –> 00:19:08.024
We just had a group, one of the
projects I think our eighth graders

00:19:08.025 –> 00:19:11.095
decided a couple of them wanted to
do was we wanna create a project on

00:19:11.095 –> 00:19:12.753
welcoming new students into our school.

00:19:13.206 –> 00:19:16.524
So they wanna make sure
that kids feel welcome here.

00:19:16.751 –> 00:19:19.780
And and I thought that, that’s
just a testament to the love and

00:19:19.780 –> 00:19:22.561
encouragement they’re getting from
all of our staff, which it doesn’t, it

00:19:22.561 –> 00:19:24.484
doesn’t just reside in our teachers.

00:19:25.139 –> 00:19:30.081
I see kids sitting in my office every day
having lunch with the business manager,

00:19:30.081 –> 00:19:34.535
and I see kids up in the office having
lunch with our secretaries, and, um,

00:19:34.545 –> 00:19:38.327
we have a full community of people that
are, are caring and loving kids out here.

00:19:38.390 –> 00:19:39.286
Yeah, definitely.

00:19:39.460 –> 00:19:44.322
L- let’s talk about rural America, but
mostly rural, you know, California.

00:19:44.391 –> 00:19:48.509
So you have this great argument that
rural California isn’t behind, it’s

00:19:48.511 –> 00:19:50.038
building what comes next, right?

00:19:50.825 –> 00:19:55.159
So what do these amazing districts
have that the big urban or

00:19:55.161 –> 00:19:56.767
suburban systems are missing?

00:19:57.767 –> 00:19:59.940
Yeah, I… and I, I truly believe that.

00:20:00.076 –> 00:20:03.845
I think half of all schools in America
are under 1,000 kids, school districts.

00:20:03.888 –> 00:20:03.917
Ooh.

00:20:03.967 –> 00:20:04.156
40-

00:20:04.156 –> 00:20:06.696
Two-thirds in California
are under 2,000, right?

00:20:06.696 –> 00:20:06.968
Yeah.

00:20:06.970 –> 00:20:07.155
So

00:20:07.155 –> 00:20:07.394
we’re-

00:20:07.394 –> 00:20:08.593
And most are rural.

00:20:08.664 –> 00:20:08.973
Yeah.

00:20:09.097 –> 00:20:13.301
And we’re probably… we’re, we’re
way more nimble than the big ships.

00:20:13.417 –> 00:20:17.208
Like, the, the LA Unifieds and them are
the Titanic, and we’re, we’re a motorboat.

00:20:17.300 –> 00:20:18.214
Like, we’re a speedboat.

00:20:18.319 –> 00:20:19.265
We can move quick.

00:20:19.615 –> 00:20:22.279
If we have the right processes-
Yeah … in place to, to be able to

00:20:22.279 –> 00:20:25.262
reflect on what’s taking place in our
systems, and for us to make decisions

00:20:25.262 –> 00:20:26.640
and adjust, then we just adjust.

00:20:26.641 –> 00:20:30.470
Richard Elmore always shared, and
Liz as well, have always shared

00:20:30.472 –> 00:20:33.370
with me that change is y- there’s
two things you need to hold.

00:20:34.062 –> 00:20:37.059
One is, if you wanna change
something, you just change it.

00:20:37.400 –> 00:20:40.445
You don’t wait six months or a year
from now to change, you just change it.

00:20:40.565 –> 00:20:42.620
The second is, change is generational.

00:20:43.053 –> 00:20:46.067
So for example, when we brought in
Paideia seminars right out of COVID to

00:20:46.067 –> 00:20:50.394
get kids to talk more the idea behind
it was that, yeah, it’s gonna benefit

00:20:50.394 –> 00:20:52.880
our kids in the seventh and eighth
grade, getting the opportunity to do

00:20:52.881 –> 00:20:54.907
Socratic seminars twice a month or more.

00:20:55.007 –> 00:20:55.471
Mm-hmm.

00:20:55.528 –> 00:20:59.425
But it’s really gonna benefit our kids in
TK if they’ve been in it for nine years.

00:20:59.425 –> 00:21:03.155
And this is where we’ve seen the
language just explode out here.

00:21:03.323 –> 00:21:07.687
For kids that are predominantly English
learners their language has exploded.

00:21:07.699 –> 00:21:10.607
But it’s b- it’s because we have
this ability to see, like, we just

00:21:10.608 –> 00:21:12.891
need, we need to change, but at the
same time, we know that the biggest

00:21:12.892 –> 00:21:16.124
change will be for the kids that have
been in the system for nine years.

00:21:16.139 –> 00:21:16.560
Yeah.

00:21:16.595 –> 00:21:19.767
Yeah, you have these amazing
relationships and bridges you

00:21:19.768 –> 00:21:20.899
know, throughout the world.

00:21:20.899 –> 00:21:25.637
And l- talk a little bit about, you know,
these, uh, the Lumiar schools in Brazil.

00:21:25.644 –> 00:21:33.415
H- how did rural Mark- g- you know,
become what I would say from the, the

00:21:33.416 –> 00:21:37.849
conversation we have, you know, very close
with these amazing leaders in, uh, Brazil.

00:21:38.295 –> 00:21:41.288
Yeah, I’d say maybe some of it’s luck.

00:21:41.497 –> 00:21:45.859
I think, but a big part of it goes back to
my upbringing in Medina about looking for

00:21:46.358 –> 00:21:49.440
the resources you need and then finding
the opportunities and connections, and

00:21:49.441 –> 00:21:52.259
there’s plenty of doors I’ve knocked
on and haven’t heard back from people,

00:21:52.259 –> 00:21:56.475
but I’m pretty persistent around if I
ne- if I think it’s gonna benefit my

00:21:56.475 –> 00:21:58.510
kids I wanna learn and I wanna grow.

00:21:58.838 –> 00:22:02.248
L- originally the Lumiar Schools, I
was looking for a tool to capture all

00:22:02.251 –> 00:22:05.272
the amazing learning that I saw taking
place at Pleasantview outside of the

00:22:05.273 –> 00:22:08.787
traditional metrics, the things that
we… reading, math, those things.

00:22:09.101 –> 00:22:14.800
I was looking for, uh, a way to measure
and, and visualize leadership and

00:22:14.819 –> 00:22:18.844
critical thinking and collaboration and,
and came across the Lumiar Schools in

00:22:18.845 –> 00:22:23.011
Brazil, which are a democratic model of
schooling, where kids decide everything,

00:22:23.055 –> 00:22:27.090
what they wanna learn about, and found
a tool that they were using there and

00:22:27.090 –> 00:22:28.946
happened to meet some of the- their team.

00:22:29.022 –> 00:22:32.209
They happened to be in Los Angeles
at a school district, and I went down

00:22:32.209 –> 00:22:36.913
to meet them and convinced them to
come see Pleasantview, and they came

00:22:36.914 –> 00:22:39.781
up, and they will tell you now four
years later that I kidnapped them.

00:22:40.472 –> 00:22:42.563
I think it’s like Stockholm syndrome.

00:22:42.573 –> 00:22:42.721
Yeah.

00:22:42.798 –> 00:22:44.720
Like, they’ve fallen in love
with their captors, right?

00:22:44.721 –> 00:22:48.225
They love Fabiana and Thais,
who are my team from Brazil.

00:22:48.305 –> 00:22:53.142
They come up twice a year, spend time
on campus and, uh, working with our

00:22:53.143 –> 00:22:56.374
teachers, meeting with them every
week for the last four years for

00:22:56.374 –> 00:22:59.475
check-ins on helping them build out the
projects because they had such great

00:22:59.908 –> 00:23:03.107
knowledge of, of… I don’t even call
it project-based learning because we

00:23:03.109 –> 00:23:06.057
have a tendency to, like, name things
in this country and put them in buckets.

00:23:06.071 –> 00:23:09.465
It’s more authentic learning,
like really authentic to the, the

00:23:09.479 –> 00:23:13.050
questions the kids have, whether it’s
community-based or just an interest.

00:23:13.064 –> 00:23:13.462
Mm-hmm.

00:23:13.509 –> 00:23:18.782
And so convinced them to come and,
and help me transform education

00:23:19.077 –> 00:23:21.669
starting in rural school systems
because I feel like we’re the

00:23:21.669 –> 00:23:23.253
ones that can change the quickest-

00:23:23.284 –> 00:23:23.544
Yeah

00:23:23.562 –> 00:23:27.306
and where the movement, I think
can happen at scale the fastest.

00:23:27.668 –> 00:23:28.067
Right.

00:23:28.148 –> 00:23:28.908
Oh, that’s amazing.

00:23:28.913 –> 00:23:32.631
So talking about, you know, culture
and leadership Elizabeth City from

00:23:32.631 –> 00:23:36.699
Harvard said that your story is complex
and simple at the same time, right?

00:23:36.703 –> 00:23:40.356
Fundamentally about
relationships, building agency.

00:23:40.830 –> 00:23:45.315
So what’s one habit or maybe a
leadership trait or something that

00:23:45.368 –> 00:23:50.257
keeps relationships at the center
when you’ve got budgets, mandates,

00:23:50.258 –> 00:23:51.474
and all these things pulling you?

00:23:52.474 –> 00:23:57.093
Yeah, I think it’s again, I think it’s,
it’s what do we tend to wanna control and

00:23:57.093 –> 00:23:58.536
what do we need to release control of?

00:23:58.958 –> 00:24:02.450
And I think, you know, when it comes
to the budget and these things, I sit

00:24:02.450 –> 00:24:05.192
and meet with my teacher leadership
team and people all the time to

00:24:05.192 –> 00:24:09.579
explain w- where the state’s at,
what they’re doing, what we’re…

00:24:09.581 –> 00:24:11.020
where we’re at, what we’re doing.

00:24:11.022 –> 00:24:13.722
So the building you’re sitting in
right now is our expanded learning

00:24:13.724 –> 00:24:17.935
opportunities center, which was built
with some of it was funded with the

00:24:17.942 –> 00:24:22.135
ESSER money coming out of ESSER COVID
and some with our expanded learning.

00:24:22.204 –> 00:24:26.347
Where a lot of districts spent that on
different things, I went to my teachers

00:24:26.347 –> 00:24:29.015
and explained to them, like, “We have
an opportunity to build another wing.

00:24:29.023 –> 00:24:31.617
We have an opportunity to build a
community center on top of it.” Mm-hmm.

00:24:31.617 –> 00:24:35.064
“But it’s gonna squeeze our budget
a little bit in the near term.”

00:24:35.128 –> 00:24:38.934
And every one of them unanimously,
“We need to build it.” Yeah.

00:24:38.934 –> 00:24:41.061
Because they were thinking of what
we need to do for this community.

00:24:41.461 –> 00:24:44.555
Same thing with the medical
center going in, the, the support.

00:24:44.574 –> 00:24:49.845
So I feel like m- everybody for the most
part will come to the same conclusion

00:24:49.845 –> 00:24:51.176
if they’re given the information.

00:24:51.302 –> 00:24:51.763
Correct.

00:24:51.804 –> 00:24:55.140
And unfortunately, I think a lot of
times our teachers, the majority of our

00:24:55.141 –> 00:24:58.929
teachers don’t get all the information,
so they get parts of information,

00:24:58.929 –> 00:25:02.306
whether it’s from the district or
from union representatives sharing

00:25:02.307 –> 00:25:04.081
pieces, but maybe not the whole story.

00:25:04.081 –> 00:25:07.563
Whereas, I think democratizing that
process more and letting people

00:25:07.573 –> 00:25:11.245
have all the information, I think
when you put kids at the heart of

00:25:11.245 –> 00:25:14.127
it, people will make decisions that
are in the best interest of kids.

00:25:14.217 –> 00:25:16.950
Yeah, and also, you know, it goes
back to the whole compliance, right?

00:25:16.950 –> 00:25:21.768
So I’m going to only empower you or
give you agency to do X, but we’re

00:25:21.769 –> 00:25:27.157
gonna cap it because we have to maintain
the curriculum, the textbooks, the,

00:25:27.179 –> 00:25:29.151
the, you know, the board of trustees.

00:25:30.151 –> 00:25:35.042
A- and it seems like you sure have
the flexibility to drive what’s

00:25:35.042 –> 00:25:38.140
necessary because the community
also believes in Mr. Mark.

00:25:39.032 –> 00:25:42.456
Yeah, I think, I th- I d- yeah, Mr.
Mark’s been out here a long time.

00:25:42.486 –> 00:25:42.701
Yeah.

00:25:42.701 –> 00:25:43.617
I think that helps.

00:25:43.648 –> 00:25:48.016
I do think that, and I have an
amazing board that also, first and

00:25:48.017 –> 00:25:49.487
foremost, they care about children.

00:25:49.567 –> 00:25:49.724
Mm-hmm.

00:25:49.912 –> 00:25:55.581
And, and as long as that’s
the primary goal, I think the

00:25:55.582 –> 00:25:56.729
opportunities are endless.

00:25:56.730 –> 00:26:00.409
I think, again, sometimes we get
caught up in political agendas,

00:26:00.412 –> 00:26:01.370
and there’s other things.

00:26:01.372 –> 00:26:05.245
People have agendas in things,
and again, those don’t necessarily

00:26:05.245 –> 00:26:08.696
have a place within the day-to-day
operations of a school system

00:26:08.781 –> 00:26:10.494
in terms of what’s important.

00:26:10.789 –> 00:26:15.025
And, um, that, that can be a challenge,
I think, in a lot of systems.

00:26:15.025 –> 00:26:18.073
But I also think going back to,
like, the structures in the system

00:26:18.074 –> 00:26:21.897
don’t tend to lend themselves
towards people working together.

00:26:22.229 –> 00:26:24.955
And then there’s this lens of
competitiveness of … There’s

00:26:24.955 –> 00:26:27.422
a fractal of competition in
education I don’t understand.

00:26:27.424 –> 00:26:30.846
I grew up in sports, played
a lot of sports in my life.

00:26:30.846 –> 00:26:32.170
It took me a lot of places.

00:26:32.576 –> 00:26:35.303
I understand competition on
the floor or on the field.

00:26:35.447 –> 00:26:35.883
Mm-hmm.

00:26:36.308 –> 00:26:39.559
Pitting teachers against each other
in classrooms based on test scores,

00:26:39.593 –> 00:26:42.584
pitting schools against each other
in the same district based on test

00:26:42.584 –> 00:26:45.763
scores of we’re better than this versus
we should be building collaborative

00:26:45.763 –> 00:26:47.926
systems where we can share across.

00:26:48.483 –> 00:26:49.430
We have two schools.

00:26:49.431 –> 00:26:50.661
We’re considered a one-school district.

00:26:50.661 –> 00:26:54.548
But there are things that I see developing
in my TK, kindergarten, first, second

00:26:54.548 –> 00:26:57.434
grade that I see being pulled over into
my fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth.

00:26:57.434 –> 00:26:59.736
And then there’s things I see taking
place in my fifth, sixth, seventh,

00:26:59.736 –> 00:27:03.418
eighth that my teachers in my second
and third or fourth start to use.

00:27:03.418 –> 00:27:05.779
And I don’t even know where
that takes place or if it’s just

00:27:05.779 –> 00:27:07.271
osmosis when they pass each other.

00:27:07.271 –> 00:27:07.588
Right.

00:27:08.225 –> 00:27:13.008
But it’s an amazing thing to watch how
the system continually reinvents itself.

00:27:13.014 –> 00:27:15.843
The school you’re in today will look
different three or four months from now.

00:27:15.923 –> 00:27:15.999
Right.

00:27:15.999 –> 00:27:16.662
I guarantee it.

00:27:16.692 –> 00:27:17.002
Yeah.

00:27:17.146 –> 00:27:19.643
Some of it, I don’t even
know how it’s taking place.

00:27:19.667 –> 00:27:23.007
But I think that’s a huge issue, and
then most school systems are too static.

00:27:23.726 –> 00:27:24.030
Right?

00:27:24.030 –> 00:27:27.061
They’re, they’re not… Those seeds
haven’t been planted for collaboration

00:27:27.062 –> 00:27:29.265
and change and growth, and they
don’t have the right processes in

00:27:29.266 –> 00:27:32.481
place to allow people to see what
the system’s currently producing.

00:27:32.632 –> 00:27:33.011
Yeah.

00:27:33.084 –> 00:27:33.334
Yeah.

00:27:33.335 –> 00:27:34.271
That’s, that’s incredible.

00:27:34.271 –> 00:27:38.638
And I, I love transformation, and,
you know, you kind of, uh, teased

00:27:38.638 –> 00:27:42.078
me a little bit about your electric
bus project a little while ago.

00:27:42.344 –> 00:27:46.757
Sh- share more so I can hear, but
it’s also, it’s, it’s transformative,

00:27:46.773 –> 00:27:49.422
but it’s also future-focused.

00:27:49.565 –> 00:27:49.983
Sure.

00:27:50.132 –> 00:27:51.763
And, uh, well, I’ll start
just briefly on the-

00:27:51.763 –> 00:27:52.042
Yeah

00:27:52.065 –> 00:27:54.135
when we brought the team in
from Brazil, we had started with

00:27:54.136 –> 00:27:55.271
financial literacy projects-

00:27:55.284 –> 00:27:55.717
Perfect

00:27:56.071 –> 00:28:01.206
… because we wanted our kids to take home
skills that we knew most of our families,

00:28:01.476 –> 00:28:05.558
and honestly families in a lot of areas,
just don’t, have never had a- access to.

00:28:06.037 –> 00:28:06.719
And we saw it.

00:28:06.733 –> 00:28:09.614
Our kids were going home and telling their
parents they needed to start setting aside

00:28:09.614 –> 00:28:14.154
a budget for vacation during the summer,
or we had a fourth grader last year, the

00:28:14.154 –> 00:28:17.566
parent shared with me that she had come
in and talked to her and her husband about

00:28:17.655 –> 00:28:20.566
putting their home in a trust because she
doesn’t wanna pay taxes someday on it.

00:28:20.581 –> 00:28:22.909
Because they had worked with State
Farm insurance, and they had learned

00:28:22.909 –> 00:28:26.259
in their project during the year all
about property liability insurance.

00:28:26.862 –> 00:28:30.197
Awesome … and so this idea that
we can transform a community.

00:28:30.199 –> 00:28:33.315
Schools should be transformational in
the sense of what we’re doing should be

00:28:33.316 –> 00:28:36.750
transforming our communities, especially
our socioeconomically disadvantaged

00:28:36.761 –> 00:28:38.248
communities, whether rural or urban.

00:28:38.784 –> 00:28:41.971
We have the opportunity to send our
kids back into their homes with skills

00:28:41.971 –> 00:28:45.991
that will transform the lives and break
these generational cycles that we see.

00:28:46.360 –> 00:28:48.119
The bus project was an interesting one.

00:28:48.119 –> 00:28:53.735
We had Started working with a, a
local company in town that builds

00:28:53.824 –> 00:28:58.502
electric vehicles, and decided to,
to convert one of our diesel buses-

00:28:58.521 –> 00:28:59.480
Is that Zero Nox?

00:28:59.486 –> 00:29:02.575
Zero Nox- Okay … to an electric
bus through a grant that they

00:29:02.575 –> 00:29:04.014
were, they helped us get.

00:29:04.408 –> 00:29:09.096
And so we decided to pull in with
their team, pull in parents, kids,

00:29:09.143 –> 00:29:13.498
as well as community members who have
automotive or diesel tech backgrounds

00:29:13.907 –> 00:29:16.008
to help us work on this full conversion.

00:29:16.115 –> 00:29:19.442
And then using the Arc Mosaic, or the
tool I was talking about, the digital

00:29:19.442 –> 00:29:24.412
portfolio, we have the ability to align it
to electric vehicle technician standards

00:29:24.470 –> 00:29:29.072
and upload the artifacts and keep track
of their own learning that took place

00:29:29.084 –> 00:29:32.305
over the course of this bus project,
which we’ll be bringing the bus in in

00:29:32.310 –> 00:29:35.451
about a week or two to share it with the
kids as it’s getting painted right now.

00:29:35.451 –> 00:29:37.784
But that was an amazing process.

00:29:37.785 –> 00:29:40.147
That’s being filmed, and
there’ll be a short documentary

00:29:40.148 –> 00:29:41.691
done on the whole process.

00:29:41.692 –> 00:29:44.886
But this ability for schools to be
transformational agents within their

00:29:44.904 –> 00:29:47.471
communities, somehow I think it gets lost.

00:29:47.498 –> 00:29:48.793
Parents send them to us.

00:29:48.818 –> 00:29:50.220
Our communities trust us.

00:29:51.023 –> 00:29:53.685
They really don’t know what we’re doing
in the sense of when they send their

00:29:53.685 –> 00:29:58.430
kids to school, but they trust that we’re
doing the best job that we know how to do.

00:29:58.740 –> 00:30:03.105
And that trust comes, I think… Sometimes
it gets lost in that we should be doing

00:30:03.115 –> 00:30:06.110
things that are transformational for the
lives of our kids and their families.

00:30:06.119 –> 00:30:06.512
Yeah.

00:30:06.766 –> 00:30:10.275
A- and, you know, and that project,
the, the, the bus project is,

00:30:10.312 –> 00:30:16.612
it’s 360-degree transformational,
but also beneficial to everyone.

00:30:16.627 –> 00:30:18.741
Like, you’ve got community.

00:30:18.741 –> 00:30:20.421
You can think of all the
webs, how it’s gonna do that.

00:30:20.422 –> 00:30:21.319
You got the students.

00:30:21.337 –> 00:30:26.505
I mean, it’s gonna benefit everyone
that is in or around Pleasant View.

00:30:26.805 –> 00:30:27.346
Absolutely.

00:30:27.452 –> 00:30:27.832
Yeah.

00:30:27.932 –> 00:30:31.949
Something I wanted to share, you know,
it, it’s ask Mr. Mark for a favor.

00:30:32.071 –> 00:30:34.055
A kid just taught the adult something.

00:30:34.290 –> 00:30:37.579
So, uh, uh, you remember that story about
that kindergarten student that explained

00:30:37.579 –> 00:30:40.121
the endangered vaquita porpoise to a-

00:30:40.332 –> 00:30:42.131
Fresno State professor, right?

00:30:42.131 –> 00:30:42.141
Yeah.

00:30:42.539 –> 00:30:45.128
And told him the fact that they
sleep with half their brain awake.

00:30:45.129 –> 00:30:49.809
Like, what’s your… what…
Give me a story about One of

00:30:49.809 –> 00:30:52.858
your students that gave, really
taught an adult something here

00:30:53.510 –> 00:30:54.136
Well, it’s funny.

00:30:54.137 –> 00:30:55.567
We have a day every year.

00:30:55.645 –> 00:30:56.304
There’s a ton.

00:30:56.304 –> 00:30:59.326
Like, we’ve, we’ve had students that
were up for Businesswoman of the Year.

00:30:59.381 –> 00:31:01.985
We’ve had, in the community,
next to his Chamber of Commerce

00:31:01.991 –> 00:31:02.714
Businesswoman of the Year.

00:31:02.715 –> 00:31:05.580
We’ve had kids that have taken over
financial… taken the financial

00:31:05.581 –> 00:31:08.318
literacy things and gone back
and invested their family’s money

00:31:08.645 –> 00:31:09.985
as they go into high school.

00:31:10.256 –> 00:31:13.927
Th- we have a day here every year, we call
it a Day Beyond the View, and this is…

00:31:13.949 –> 00:31:17.863
I was sharing with you earlier that
Frederick Gr- Gates, who was the first,

00:31:17.984 –> 00:31:22.171
um, director of the, the Rockefeller Board
of Education- Mm-hmm … wrote his first

00:31:22.171 –> 00:31:26.904
occasional paper in, I think, 1913, and
it was The Country School of Tomorrow.

00:31:27.591 –> 00:31:29.865
And there was a lot of
stuff in there I agree with.

00:31:29.884 –> 00:31:33.963
Get- getting rid of, you know, reading,
writing, and math as compartmentalized

00:31:33.975 –> 00:31:37.466
subjects and we really should be teaching
these things interdisciplinary- Right

00:31:37.466 –> 00:31:38.646
in authentic settings.

00:31:39.071 –> 00:31:42.245
But then he also wrote about keeping
people within the horizons of

00:31:42.245 –> 00:31:43.493
where they first opened their eyes.

00:31:44.022 –> 00:31:46.981
So we call it a Day Beyond the View
because a lot of the times we have a hard

00:31:46.982 –> 00:31:48.998
time seeing what lies beyond something.

00:31:49.224 –> 00:31:51.989
Our current mental models keep
us stuck within what’s here.

00:31:51.990 –> 00:31:55.958
We have a great view of the Sierra Nevadas
at times, um, when it’s not foggy or,

00:31:56.607 –> 00:31:59.967
um, we’ve got wildfires taking place.

00:31:59.987 –> 00:32:02.661
But it’s what, what lies
beyond those things.

00:32:02.661 –> 00:32:02.941
Yeah.

00:32:02.988 –> 00:32:06.026
And so we bring people in from school
districts all over the valley to spend

00:32:06.027 –> 00:32:09.090
a day talking to our kids, seeing our
kids, where our kids get a chance to

00:32:09.092 –> 00:32:10.493
teach them about what they’re learning.

00:32:10.801 –> 00:32:15.155
One of our projects last year, a group
of third graders had… They had looked

00:32:15.155 –> 00:32:19.713
at life on land and they were looking
at the deforestation of the Amazon.

00:32:19.797 –> 00:32:22.621
And so we were talking to them and
asking them about their project,

00:32:23.033 –> 00:32:26.478
and they’re like, “Well, we need
to, we need to put guards up there.”

00:32:26.536 –> 00:32:28.732
And I’m like, “Well, what happens if
people don’t listen?” “Well, then we’re

00:32:28.732 –> 00:32:31.697
just gonna, we’re gonna arrest them.”
We’re like, “Yeah, well, what if, what

00:32:31.698 –> 00:32:36.189
if people don’t listen and they still
go back and they’re, you know, taking,

00:32:36.204 –> 00:32:38.320
you know, they’re logging and stuff
like that?” And they’re like, “Well,

00:32:38.320 –> 00:32:39.458
we’re just gonna have to go to war.

00:32:39.538 –> 00:32:41.746
We’re gonna have to-” “… we’re
gonna have to start a tree planting

00:32:41.747 –> 00:32:45.107
war in the Amazon.” And I’m like…
But just listening to our kids,

00:32:45.107 –> 00:32:48.043
the confidence they have about the
subjects that they’re learning about.

00:32:48.752 –> 00:32:52.251
I shared with you our kids that a couple
of years ago they wanted to learn about

00:32:52.252 –> 00:32:55.435
sound, and our teachers took them to…

00:32:55.454 –> 00:32:56.336
This is our third grade.

00:32:56.358 –> 00:32:58.592
Our teachers took them to the LA
Zoo, and they charted amplitudes

00:32:58.592 –> 00:32:59.918
of sound waves of animals.

00:32:59.918 –> 00:33:03.452
They came back, went to Cal
State Stanislaus to their Fab

00:33:03.454 –> 00:33:05.807
Lab and built out parts to drums.

00:33:05.810 –> 00:33:08.415
The kids assembled the drums and
played them at the Christmas program.

00:33:08.417 –> 00:33:10.928
But if you went in and talked to
these third graders, they would tell

00:33:10.929 –> 00:33:15.048
you all about amplitudes of sound
waves, frequencies, how different

00:33:15.050 –> 00:33:16.620
colors have different frequencies.

00:33:17.040 –> 00:33:19.884
And the fact that our kids are using
that language and they’re using it in the

00:33:19.884 –> 00:33:23.032
right context blows us all away daily.

00:33:23.033 –> 00:33:26.528
But at the same time, the challenge then
back to us is, how do we increase the

00:33:26.528 –> 00:33:28.469
rigor of the tasks we’re giving kids?

00:33:28.761 –> 00:33:29.897
Because they’re ready for it.

00:33:30.360 –> 00:33:33.001
And, um, but that that’s an example.

00:33:33.105 –> 00:33:33.436
Yeah.

00:33:33.491 –> 00:33:34.702
That’s just fantastic.

00:33:34.811 –> 00:33:37.471
Let’s do a little bit of
a rapid fire close here.

00:33:37.516 –> 00:33:39.455
Best thing about living
in the Central Valley

00:33:40.455 –> 00:33:42.937
I think the access to fresh
fruits and vegetables.

00:33:43.209 –> 00:33:44.427
Oh, wait, this is our recess bell.

00:33:44.438 –> 00:33:44.792
Sorry.

00:33:44.853 –> 00:33:45.572
Oh, I love it.

00:33:45.665 –> 00:33:47.042
Come over, Chloe

00:33:48.042 –> 00:33:48.920
The kids going out to recess

00:33:48.920 –> 00:33:49.357
I love it.

00:33:49.431 –> 00:33:49.880
Love it

00:33:50.009 –> 00:33:54.459
Uh, yeah, I think access to all the fresh
fruits and vegetables and food for sure

00:33:54.520 –> 00:33:57.778
Yeah, so those of you, uh, listening
that don’t know where we are, you

00:33:57.778 –> 00:34:01.440
need to look it up because this is
really the bed- bread basket of not

00:34:01.440 –> 00:34:03.505
only California, but much of, uh-

00:34:03.517 –> 00:34:04.440
America for sure, and the

00:34:04.440 –> 00:34:04.599
world

00:34:04.599 –> 00:34:05.359
America, yeah.

00:34:05.757 –> 00:34:09.360
Uh, one word your students
would use to describe school

00:34:10.360 –> 00:34:10.742
Fun

00:34:11.148 –> 00:34:12.976
Ooh, love that three-letter word.

00:34:13.868 –> 00:34:15.462
a book every superintendent should read?

00:34:15.621 –> 00:34:17.453
Second Mountain by David Brooks.

00:34:17.554 –> 00:34:18.527
Oh, okay.

00:34:18.816 –> 00:34:21.517
Favorite project you’ve
ever seen a student present?

00:34:21.971 –> 00:34:25.185
Last year I thought it was pretty
interesting, we had an eighth-grader

00:34:25.187 –> 00:34:31.198
during her financial literacy project,
she chose to look at the scarcity of

00:34:31.199 –> 00:34:37.374
resources and allocation of resources
of Anne Frank during World War II and

00:34:37.374 –> 00:34:40.382
the people around her, which I thought
was a really interesting way of applying

00:34:40.383 –> 00:34:44.328
financial literacy and economics to,
to that book, which is traditionally

00:34:44.330 –> 00:34:45.796
taught in very different ways.

00:34:45.861 –> 00:34:48.355
Well, there’s your cross-disciplinary
thinking- Oh … right there.

00:34:48.371 –> 00:34:48.535
Yeah.

00:34:48.541 –> 00:34:49.017
I mean, come on.

00:34:49.101 –> 00:34:50.048
That was incredible.

00:34:50.051 –> 00:34:50.864
It doesn’t get better.

00:34:50.864 –> 00:34:50.884
That’s amazing.

00:34:50.884 –> 00:34:50.963
Yeah.

00:34:50.963 –> 00:34:51.432
Amazing.

00:34:52.142 –> 00:34:54.828
Finish this sentence: Rural kids are…

00:34:55.828 –> 00:34:56.794
Amazing.

00:34:57.794 –> 00:34:58.361
I love that.

00:34:58.474 –> 00:35:02.701
So one of the phrases we use on the,
the podcast, Better Learning Podcast,

00:35:02.715 –> 00:35:07.609
is radically student-centered, and,
um, you know, it, it can really

00:35:07.849 –> 00:35:12.875
drive the thought and change of
what we’re doing in this world.

00:35:12.876 –> 00:35:14.639
So what, what does that mean to you?

00:35:15.639 –> 00:35:20.157
I think it’s, it’s so interesting
because I think of the world upside down

00:35:20.159 –> 00:35:21.731
from the way most of us perceive it.

00:35:22.500 –> 00:35:24.922
So I don’t necessarily think up is up.

00:35:24.923 –> 00:35:27.430
I think up is down when it comes
to education and the things that we

00:35:27.432 –> 00:35:28.729
should be doing if we flipped ’em.

00:35:29.195 –> 00:35:32.512
Again, if we gave kids more control
and agency, if we gave teachers more

00:35:32.513 –> 00:35:36.637
control and agency and principals, and
you flipped it versus that top-down

00:35:36.642 –> 00:35:39.381
compliance mode, you would have
schools that would be flourishing

00:35:39.383 –> 00:35:43.795
in the most creative and innovative
waves in context to their own system.

00:35:43.804 –> 00:35:46.651
Like I, I met with some other
superintendents in the last month

00:35:46.651 –> 00:35:50.081
and, and they have amazing things
taking place in pockets of their

00:35:50.083 –> 00:35:53.216
systems in their schools, which I
believe are in every school system.

00:35:53.773 –> 00:35:57.279
The challenge is how do you make
that the norm- in your school system?

00:35:57.404 –> 00:35:57.416
Right.

00:35:57.451 –> 00:36:00.797
And that’s where I think a lot of
leaders and systems need some help.

00:36:01.231 –> 00:36:05.067
But I do st- I just think it’s, it’s
op- I think it’s opposite of what

00:36:05.067 –> 00:36:08.788
most of us are conditioned for based
on the systems that we went through.

00:36:08.878 –> 00:36:14.181
Yeah, and I think, uh, United States
would be a, a much, much better

00:36:14.181 –> 00:36:19.966
position and a leader in the world
if we turn that top upside down.

00:36:19.996 –> 00:36:21.600
Well, and I’ll give you
an example real quick.

00:36:21.601 –> 00:36:24.830
I, I d- I worked with a
group of girls in a class.

00:36:24.852 –> 00:36:27.377
My eighth grade teacher and I
worked with a group of kids.

00:36:27.377 –> 00:36:28.756
We asked them what they
wanted to learn about.

00:36:28.758 –> 00:36:32.668
This was about 10 years ago, and they
wanted to learn about touchscreen devices.

00:36:32.965 –> 00:36:34.644
And so they had figured out
that there was six different

00:36:34.651 –> 00:36:36.074
touchscreen devices in the world.

00:36:36.084 –> 00:36:38.649
So we said, “Okay, group up and
you guys can learn about whatever

00:36:38.651 –> 00:36:42.096
touchscreen device you want.” So
a week, we did this once or twice

00:36:42.098 –> 00:36:43.539
a week for 45 minutes to an hour.

00:36:43.544 –> 00:36:44.591
We came back the second week.

00:36:44.593 –> 00:36:46.709
The kids had given us a ton of
information, which they had just

00:36:46.724 –> 00:36:48.504
Googled and regurgitated to us.

00:36:49.065 –> 00:36:51.929
And I told the teacher that what we’re
gonna do is we’re gonna tell the kids that

00:36:51.929 –> 00:36:53.251
we don’t understand a word they’re saying.

00:36:53.254 –> 00:36:54.255
They’re gonna have to show us.

00:36:54.278 –> 00:36:54.729
Mm-hmm.

00:36:55.153 –> 00:36:58.700
So we told the kids, “That’s great,
but we don’t really understand it,

00:36:58.703 –> 00:37:01.822
so could you guys come back next
week and show us how it works?”

00:37:02.329 –> 00:37:03.845
And I still have it in my office.

00:37:03.876 –> 00:37:07.509
There was a group of girls, there
was four of them, all CELDT level

00:37:07.526 –> 00:37:11.488
threes, which was the, at the time,
they were not English- Proficient.

00:37:11.548 –> 00:37:11.894
No.

00:37:11.916 –> 00:37:12.146
Nope.

00:37:12.681 –> 00:37:16.642
They came in with a Styrofoam board
that was about two feet by two feet,

00:37:16.847 –> 00:37:22.477
and it had all the apps, like Minecraft,
like all these apps, Instagram,

00:37:22.490 –> 00:37:25.363
that they had, they had made these
little cutouts on a Styrofoam board.

00:37:25.426 –> 00:37:29.507
They had used duct tape around the edges
and labeled it retroreflective tape.

00:37:29.613 –> 00:37:33.859
They put two red boxes up in the top
corners with rubber bands connecting

00:37:33.859 –> 00:37:37.880
them called, and they labeled them
LED because that’s where the LED light

00:37:37.939 –> 00:37:42.275
had started and shot infrared light
across the screen, bouncing back and

00:37:42.276 –> 00:37:43.900
forth off the retroreflective tape.

00:37:43.912 –> 00:37:47.595
And then they used the rubber bands
to show us how when they pressed on an

00:37:47.605 –> 00:37:51.707
app, it would triangulate the position
and open the software And then we asked

00:37:51.709 –> 00:37:54.497
them, “Well, what, how does so- what
does software do?” Like, the- Yeah,

00:37:54.497 –> 00:37:55.779
yeah … you just keep pushing, right?

00:37:55.800 –> 00:37:58.972
And the reality is, those
kids just kept going.

00:37:59.610 –> 00:38:02.962
And the expectation for them
would’ve been, give you a

00:38:02.964 –> 00:38:05.189
vocabulary list, memorize the words.

00:38:05.354 –> 00:38:05.370
Mm-hmm.

00:38:05.420 –> 00:38:10.270
But they went so far, uh, beyond that
because we just opened up the opportunity

00:38:10.290 –> 00:38:12.362
and the experience for them to show us.

00:38:12.426 –> 00:38:16.829
And if we would just ask kids
and teachers to show us, our

00:38:16.829 –> 00:38:18.316
school systems would transform.

00:38:18.403 –> 00:38:21.889
Yeah, I mean, m- for those… This
is a mind-blowing moment, actually.

00:38:21.899 –> 00:38:24.863
For, for those of you who don’t
know, CELDT is California English

00:38:24.863 –> 00:38:29.004
Language Development Test, which is
gone and, and gave way for the ELPAC.

00:38:29.019 –> 00:38:33.476
But Mark is talking about kids that
were deemed not proficient in English,

00:38:33.829 –> 00:38:37.651
and if you kind of think about what
just happened and what took place

00:38:37.651 –> 00:38:39.964
in this project it’s mind-blowing.

00:38:40.013 –> 00:38:44.789
Because what happened was they were
believed in, they were given agency,

00:38:44.847 –> 00:38:49.199
they were given some tools and freedom
to find what they wanted to, and,

00:38:49.229 –> 00:38:50.303
and look what they came up with.

00:38:50.398 –> 00:38:50.719
Right.

00:38:50.862 –> 00:38:53.355
And that’s because you
didn’t have a ceiling.

00:38:53.597 –> 00:38:54.210
Absolutely.

00:38:55.210 –> 00:38:59.076
Hey, Mark, I am so grateful
to have you as a guest today.

00:38:59.078 –> 00:39:00.858
This was just a great conversation.

00:39:01.208 –> 00:39:03.275
Mark Odseather, right?

00:39:03.314 –> 00:39:03.506
Yep.

00:39:03.529 –> 00:39:04.139
Oh, yes.

00:39:04.457 –> 00:39:06.974
Superintendent, Pleasant
View Elementary School.

00:39:06.975 –> 00:39:08.024
My friends, look it up.

00:39:08.036 –> 00:39:09.355
Follow us, share.

00:39:09.361 –> 00:39:12.537
This has been a great combo,
and, uh, thanks for being here.

00:39:12.638 –> 00:39:15.213
Yeah, I appreciate you coming out and
spending the time on campus today.

00:39:15.239 –> 00:39:16.184
Uh, it’s been a privilege.

00:39:16.207 –> 00:39:16.657
Thanks.