Read Transcript:

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And we turned that around and ended up
having zero bridge plans in four years.

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The only school in the state
of Maryland to do that.

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And the outcome that I desired and
sort of casted the vision of in my

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interviews was we’re the best school
system in the state of Maryland, and

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it’s really good to be number one.

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That is a huge thing to celebrate.

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However, we still have about 30% of
our students who aren’t on grade level

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in grade three, and then after that we
know it really doesn’t get any better.

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Well, number one, everyone wants
you to know their name, and no one

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wants to say, “Hey, you,” or, “Hey.”
Everyone wants to know their name.

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If we pick up a yearbook, the
first thing we do is we look

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for ourselves in that yearbook.

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So what are we looking for?

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We’re looking for belonging,
and we’re looking for identity.

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So when you can call me by
name, I know that you know me.

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And I think as a nation, that’s what
sort of that moral imperative of like

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everyone deserves to be literate.

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Like being literate is like the base,

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Welcome back to the Better Learning
Podcast, where we explore the ideas,

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strategies, and stories shaping
today’s learning environments.

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I’m Katie Jubenville, and I’m your
host today, and I am so pleased to

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be joined by Dr. Annette Wallace,
Superintendent of Worcester

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County Public Schools in Maryland.

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Dr.

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Wallace brings decades of experience
in education from the classroom to the

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principal’s office to the superintendent’s
chair, and she has been leading

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transformative work around literacy,
belonging, and making sure every child

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is known by name, strength, and need.

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In today’s conversation, we’ll explore Dr.

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Wallace’s leadership journey, how
she personally defines radically

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student-centered, and then dive into some
of the incredible initiatives happening

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in Worcester County, including Project 100
and the AP Pathways program, and even a

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storybook initiative that’s changing how
the district supports at-risk students.

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Dr. Wallace, I just wanna thank you for,
for being here today and making time

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in I know a very, very busy schedule.

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So just to get, um, us started, can you
take a minute to walk us through your

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journey into education and leadership?

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thank you for having me, Katie.

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I’m excited to be here, um,
and story tell with you today.

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So a little bit about
myself, uh, my history.

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I am a product of Worcester County
Public Schools, and so that’s a

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different and unique experience when
you’ve grown up here and this is

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your… This is the place where you
live and, and you’ve learned, um, and

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now I lead, which is really exciting.

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I was a student here, and then
I went to a local college.

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I attended Salisbury University, and,
uh, then came back to be a math teacher

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at a high school and a coach And then,
um, surprisingly enough, and I was just

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having a conversation with someone about
this yesterday, I didn’t really have

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any, uh, desire to enter into leadership.

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And somebody said, “Well, if you
wanna do it in like the next seven

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years, it might be a good idea to just
start interviewing because it takes a

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while.” And I ended up interviewing.

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On the first try, I got told that
I was, um, going to a school as

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an assistant principal, and I, I
think I was like 26 at the time.

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So, um, I went to Pocomoke High School,
I became an assistant principal there.

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Uh, and then very serendipitously sort
of the same type of thing happened,

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uh, after about a year, um, or after
my first year as assistant principal.

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Very early in that second year, the
principal came in and let me know

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he was retiring, and, uh, I was like
very surprised, uh, but also, um,

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thinking to myself, “Okay, like,
what’s next with a new principal?”

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And then I had a lot of our staff members
at Pocomoke High School approach me and

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say, “Hey, you need to be the principal.”
And I was sort of thinking like, “I don’t

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know that I have any business at 29 years
old of becoming the principal of a high

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school.” Uh, I was just starting to get
used to being an assistant principal.

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It was a big change.

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Uh, but I sort of, uh, followed the
call and I interviewed for the position

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and then, um, I was selected to be
the principal of Pocomoke High School

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at the time, the lowest performing
high school in the school district.

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Um, when people look at the demographics
of Worcester County, we’re very different

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from the north to the south end.

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Um, Pocomoke Hi- where I taught, Stephen
Decatur High School, um, is, uh, not

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very diverse and, uh, pretty wealthy.

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And at the southern end of our
county where Pocomoke High School

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is, about eight out of 10 students
come from homes of poverty, and

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that’s a majority-minority school.

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Um, so the, the, the demographics
of the school were very different.

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And, uh, but I, I was excited.

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I got a brand new team and, uh, we ended
up, uh, having a lot of really great

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initiatives that moved students forward.

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Um, at the time, the assessment,
uh, platform, if you didn’t pass

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the assessments in the state
of Maryland, you had to do what

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was called a bridge project.

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Uh, we had a class of 87 students,
a very, very small class for us,

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and, uh, there was 78 bridge plans.

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And so, um, you can tell like how very,
you know, low performing that school was.

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And we turned that around and ended up
having zero bridge plans in four years.

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The only school in the state
of Maryland to do that.

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So very, very exciting, um, work
that was done and it really was, uh,

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that radically centered student work.

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So it was centered around the belief
that every kid can achieve and that

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we will, um, be the change maker for
those students or the game changer.

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That was one of our themes one year.

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Um- Couple, uh, six years into that,
uh, the superintendent came to me and

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was like, “I have this new role. I
think you would be really great at it.”

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And, uh, I was like, “You know, I
appreciate it, but I kinda have the

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best thing going here.” And he’s
like, “No, I really think, like,

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this is a great opportunity for you.”
And I said, “Okay.” Uh, so I became

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an assistant superintendent, uh,
did that for, I think, eight years.

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And then, um, this is my going
in- this is my second year

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as superintendent of schools.

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So that’s kind of how we got to today

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And, um, I, I love, I always love hearing
the, the path because no one’s is the

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same, and it’s, it’s so interesting.

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And, um, through that, um, path, you had
something pretty substantial happen in

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your career, which is when you were named
Maryland’s Principal of the Year in 2016.

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And what did that recognition mean
to you, and how did it shape your

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path toward the superintendency?

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Yeah, I, um, interesting question.

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Really good question.

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I think, uh, I was saying to my staff, I
remember saying to my staff a week before

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it happened, we had a really great teacher
who was teacher of the year, and we really

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thought she was gonna win for the county.

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Um, because the stories that people
told about Pocomoke High School

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weren’t always great stories.

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And so we were at this pivotal point
where we had gone from achieving at 23%

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to being the highest performing school for
first-time test takers in our district.

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And interestingly enough, our
district is the highest performing

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district in the state of Maryland.

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So you can, you can put the dots
together on what that meant about

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Pocomoke High School and the
learning that was taking place there.

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We had some really great initiatives.

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We were really trying to tell our story.

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Um, but I was constantly having
interactions in our community, like

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in our greater community as like a
county as a whole, and then tri-county

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area kind of where, um, people just
would not like breathe life into

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Pocomoke High School in the stories
that they were telling or the things

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that, the comments they were making.

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And so I remember saying to my, uh,
team, “We need something really big.

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Like, I’m really hoping that our teacher
wins teacher of the year ’cause she’s

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really, really good, and it would
just be really great for our school

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to have to add that to our story.” And
the next week I was– they surprised

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me and I was named, uh, principal of
the year for the state of Maryland.

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So I was the secondary
principal of the year.

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Um, so I was a high school principal of
the year, and then named the secondary,

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which is middle and high school.

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so I think it was a really pivotal
experience for me because it

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allowed us to tell another positive
story about Pocomoke High School.

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And you can never, even then,
and I don’t– That was s-

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you know, 10 years ago now.

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Um, but then and now, we
cannot tell enough positive

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stories about public education.

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And so for me, I think
that was the pivotal point.

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It was a wonderful celebration
because the award wasn’t about me,

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but it was just a really wonderful
celebration of all the work that

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we had accomplished in our school
together, uh, and where our school was.

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It sort of changed the narrative about
Pocomoke High School in many ways

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Um, and I, I love how you focus more
on others and, and not… You don’t

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really even see it as, as you, though
you were the one that was awarded

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and obviously very well-deserving.

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But it just shows that your
selflessness in your role and,

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um, in your previous roles.

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So, um, your mission as superintendent
centers on every child, uh, being

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known by name, strength, and need.

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So can you unpack for our audience
what that looks like day to day?

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yeah, as I was shaping what I would want
my vision to be should I be selected

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as a superintendent, I took a lot
of time thinking about what are the

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tangible things that are gonna get us
to the student outcomes that we desire.

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And the outcome that I desired and
sort of casted the vision of in my

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interviews was we’re the best school
system in the state of Maryland, and

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it’s really good to be number one.

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That is a huge thing to celebrate.

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However, we still have about 30% of
our students who aren’t on grade level

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in grade three, and then after that we
know it really doesn’t get any better.

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You know, a couple kids
fall off the wagon.

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D- that’s just the research.

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And so I set that as the goal.

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I told the board that would be our goal
when I accepted the superintendency.

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I announced that publicly.

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Kind of a brave thing to do, I think.

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Yeah, very

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tell our, I tell our school leaders,
like, “It’s okay, like you can

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be vulnerable because this is
a big, scary, just right goal.”

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And that’s what I, was always my goal
for students is, is you need to pick a

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big and scary, just right goal for you.

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And so, um, that is our goal,
and how do we get there?

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How do we get to every kid
reading on grade level?

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There’s a lot of different
tangible things, but first it

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has to be inspiring the heart.

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And so it has to be around
believing that every child belongs

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and that every child can achieve.

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And so how do you do that?

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Well, number one, everyone wants
you to know their name, and no one

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wants to say, “Hey, you,” or, “Hey.”
Everyone wants to know their name.

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If we pick up a yearbook, the
first thing we do is we look

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for ourselves in that yearbook.

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So what are we looking for?

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We’re looking for belonging,
and we’re looking for identity.

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So when you can call me by
name, I know that you know me.

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And then talking about known
by name strength- I personally

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prefer for you to not lead with
the things that I’m worse at.

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And so we all prefer to
be known by our strengths.

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However, that doesn’t eliminate
the fact that I do have things

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I need to work and grow on.

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So you need to know me by, by my strengths
because we believe in strength-based

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learning and strength-based leadership,
but you also need to know all the

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things that I’m going to struggle
with, and you’re gonna use those

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strengths to build my weaknesses up.

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Just like when you are– if you’re a
sports person, um, when you injure a

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muscle, you don’t just work on that muscle
that’s injured, but you work on all the

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muscles around it that are surrounding
it to make, help make that muscle to

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make up for the weakness and to continue
to build strength in that other muscle.

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And so that’s kind of how we get to our
mission statement, um, is knowing every

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student by name, strength, and need.

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And so that has– that was my platform
in becoming the superintendent, and then

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the board just recently, um, as recent as
last month, adopted that as our, as our

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mission statement for our school system

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Well, and I love that you were able to
really truly unpack it for us because

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it’s one thing to say it, but to
give that detailed description of…

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It, it just paints a perfect picture
of what’s going on day-to-day with,

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with the students in your district.

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So, um, you have some really, you know,
powerful initiatives and projects.

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So tell us about Project 100.

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Um, and I’d also like to hear
about the AP Pathways program.

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So tell us, tell us about those two

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Yeah.

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Project 100, uh, was our goal to have and
is our goal now to have every student,

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um, have a close post-secondary plan
when they leave our school system.

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And that can be one of a few things.

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It can be a c- community college
or college or university.

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It can be the military, which I think is
one of the most noble, um, and honorable

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post-secondary choices a student can make.

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Or it can be to enter, um, a
work-based apprenticeship program

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or continuing at a trade school.

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But it’s one of those three things.

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And I think it’s a really great
concept, but the difference in really

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great concepts and making it happen
are two totally different things.

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And so we put strategies in place that
if you were going to– A lot of our

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students started at our local community
college because again, population,

00:13:25.409 –> 00:13:29.311
um, was a lot of students who ca-
come- came from homes of poverty.

00:13:29.311 –> 00:13:32.604
And so that was not only just a great
starter, but financially it was a

00:13:32.605 –> 00:13:36.760
good decision for them as well, uh,
because they don’t have necessarily all

00:13:36.761 –> 00:13:38.763
those s- financial supports in place.

00:13:39.475 –> 00:13:42.571
So if they were going to our community
college, they were accepted, and

00:13:42.572 –> 00:13:45.837
before they graduated, they left
with their schedule for the fall.

00:13:46.593 –> 00:13:48.772
If they were going to a college
or university, we had to

00:13:48.779 –> 00:13:49.941
have that acceptance letter.

00:13:50.183 –> 00:13:53.980
If they were going into the military
and they were enlisting, they had to

00:13:53.984 –> 00:13:55.380
have their– they had their papers.

00:13:55.388 –> 00:13:57.330
So it wasn’t, you don’t, you
don’t just get to say, “I’m

00:13:57.330 –> 00:14:00.346
going into the Coast Guard,” or,
“I’m going into the Air Force.”

00:14:00.347 –> 00:14:02.950
They actually– We made sure
we broke down that process.

00:14:02.950 –> 00:14:05.075
We brought the recruiters
and the parents in.

00:14:05.371 –> 00:14:06.871
Uh, we broke down all barriers.

00:14:07.133 –> 00:14:09.754
Um, before the state of Maryland
was requiring it, we were having

00:14:09.769 –> 00:14:11.304
all students complete the FAFSA.

00:14:12.148 –> 00:14:15.407
We also had every single one of our
students accepted into a college or

00:14:15.408 –> 00:14:19.761
university, even if they were going to a
trade school or going into the military.

00:14:19.929 –> 00:14:23.196
So we had 100% of our students that
were accepted into a college or

00:14:23.199 –> 00:14:25.596
university during that time period.

00:14:25.853 –> 00:14:30.219
And, uh, then certainly like a
work-based apprenticeship or entering

00:14:30.231 –> 00:14:32.743
into a trade school afterwards.

00:14:32.981 –> 00:14:35.048
But again, all those same
rules had to be in place.

00:14:35.055 –> 00:14:36.448
Like, they had to have
all their paperwork.

00:14:36.471 –> 00:14:38.261
We did all of that work on site.

00:14:38.514 –> 00:14:43.229
And so what happens when you take that
on as a school system or as a school is

00:14:43.229 –> 00:14:45.352
that you eliminate all barriers for kids.

00:14:45.675 –> 00:14:47.730
And that’s really what we were going for.

00:14:47.733 –> 00:14:54.691
We were going for, um, it’s really hard
in… Now it’s 2026, but it’s really hard

00:14:54.691 –> 00:14:59.432
to make a good living in 2026 if you don’t
have an education beyond high school.

00:14:59.663 –> 00:15:05.212
And that doesn’t mean college for
everyone, because the workforce is a great

00:15:05.295 –> 00:15:07.250
place to go and learn a skilled trade.

00:15:07.654 –> 00:15:10.754
But it means that you have a little
something extra that everyone else

00:15:10.754 –> 00:15:14.602
doesn’t have that’s gonna give
you a leg up in your next steps

00:15:16.919 –> 00:15:21.558
And that’s, um, so we- we’re seeing
that, I feel like, across the country

00:15:21.559 –> 00:15:26.862
with all the CTE programs and, you
know, finding their ways into districts.

00:15:26.891 –> 00:15:32.272
And it’s so refreshing because I
think that can also be a time in, in

00:15:32.415 –> 00:15:34.212
students’ lives that’s really scary.

00:15:34.507 –> 00:15:39.577
And without that support and that,
that accountability, they– it’s, it’s,

00:15:39.875 –> 00:15:41.599
it’s easy for them not to have a plan.

00:15:41.652 –> 00:15:43.563
So that’s fantastic.

00:15:43.583 –> 00:15:45.112
W- I love Project 100

00:15:45.395 –> 00:15:48.939
Yeah, it’s huge for making
that post-secondary leap a

00:15:48.940 –> 00:15:50.490
little less scary for kids.

00:15:50.749 –> 00:15:54.510
We also really focused on, and to
connect it to our AP Pathways program

00:15:54.511 –> 00:15:58.715
that you were asking about as well, we
also focused, we also created Pathways

00:15:58.716 –> 00:16:02.546
because one of the things that I noticed
immediately at the school was that our

00:16:02.547 –> 00:16:06.608
students weren’t taking the same number
of credits that at the high school that

00:16:06.621 –> 00:16:08.262
had completely different demographics.

00:16:08.500 –> 00:16:10.960
At the end of their– They weren’t
building a transcript that could

00:16:10.960 –> 00:16:14.172
get them anywhere, and basically,
that was my goal for every kid.

00:16:14.200 –> 00:16:17.550
I want you to build a transcript
that can take you anywhere you want

00:16:18.668 –> 00:16:22.223
One of the important parts about a
small school specifically, you don’t

00:16:22.230 –> 00:16:25.492
face this as much at larger schools
because in your master schedule you

00:16:25.492 –> 00:16:27.587
have multiple offerings of everything.

00:16:28.240 –> 00:16:34.620
At a small school, AP Biology only gets
offered once, and so all of those courses

00:16:34.622 –> 00:16:36.156
have to be very carefully scheduled.

00:16:36.174 –> 00:16:38.838
So we completely rewrote
the master schedule.

00:16:39.163 –> 00:16:44.209
We made sure our scheduling process
was, uh, tight, so we made sure

00:16:44.209 –> 00:16:46.888
that students were actually signing
up for what they were interested

00:16:46.888 –> 00:16:48.000
in when they did scheduling.

00:16:48.026 –> 00:16:49.690
Everyone had a one-on-one meeting.

00:16:50.385 –> 00:16:54.147
But then what we, what we found out
was that if we wanted to maximize the

00:16:54.160 –> 00:16:58.572
AP opportunities for kids, that we
had to build out an actual pathway.

00:16:59.163 –> 00:17:03.250
Because at a small school, unless you
take things in the right order, for

00:17:03.250 –> 00:17:07.141
example, you have to know that calculus
and biology need to go side by side so

00:17:07.141 –> 00:17:10.638
that during their 11th grade year, so
that during their senior year they have

00:17:10.661 –> 00:17:15.469
access to AP Chem if they’d like to
take it, and they have access to Calc 2

00:17:15.478 –> 00:17:17.530
or AP Stats if they’d like to take it.

00:17:17.762 –> 00:17:20.340
Because it can only sit in one
spot in the schedule because

00:17:20.341 –> 00:17:21.846
you ha- they’re all singletons.

00:17:21.880 –> 00:17:24.702
And so it’s, that master
schedule is critical.

00:17:25.509 –> 00:17:29.720
But also in developing out the master
schedule that would work to take it, you

00:17:29.776 –> 00:17:32.349
also have to give students direction.

00:17:33.407 –> 00:17:36.801
they had, we had to create the
actual AP pathway that said, “What

00:17:36.802 –> 00:17:38.054
are you taking in ninth grade?

00:17:38.157 –> 00:17:41.889
Here’s exactly what you’re taking to
create a map, to create a transcript

00:17:41.891 –> 00:17:47.940
that will take you anywhere.” And
our AP Pathways was not for the 20

00:17:47.944 –> 00:17:50.045
brightest students out of a class of 100.

00:17:50.765 –> 00:17:56.254
The way that we sold our AP Pathways for
it was, “Are you interested in building

00:17:56.255 –> 00:17:58.915
a transcript that can take you anywhere?”

00:17:59.502 –> 00:18:03.462
And so, um, we had some students
who didn’t find success in

00:18:03.821 –> 00:18:05.936
only a handful of AP courses.

00:18:06.246 –> 00:18:09.860
But what students consistently came back
and told us year after year after they

00:18:09.863 –> 00:18:15.512
graduated is that, “I went to college and
it was actually easy because I struggled

00:18:15.514 –> 00:18:19.728
here and I took nine, 10 AP classes here.

00:18:20.637 –> 00:18:24.211
But when I went to college, I had
already developed that stamina.

00:18:24.247 –> 00:18:26.451
I developed the belief in
myself that I could do it.

00:18:26.664 –> 00:18:30.748
And because you guys were here giving me
all those supports on the early end of

00:18:30.748 –> 00:18:35.503
those AP courses, when I went to college,
like, it was a piece of cake.” And that

00:18:35.511 –> 00:18:37.676
as a principal is like, that’s your dream.

00:18:37.706 –> 00:18:38.962
That’s the sweet spot.

00:18:39.233 –> 00:18:43.404
Um, and then also making sure that
the other students who decided college

00:18:43.410 –> 00:18:47.725
wasn’t for them They wanted to do the
military or they wanted to do a trade

00:18:47.727 –> 00:18:49.121
school, and maybe college came later.

00:18:49.351 –> 00:18:52.242
And that was part of us getting
every student accepted into

00:18:52.244 –> 00:18:53.327
a college or university.

00:18:53.552 –> 00:18:58.168
Because maybe right now college isn’t
the right fit for you, but you know what?

00:18:58.195 –> 00:19:01.450
It might help you to have that
acceptance into a, our local college

00:19:01.450 –> 00:19:04.542
or university because you might wanna
take some business courses if you’re

00:19:04.542 –> 00:19:05.996
into, if you have a skilled trade.

00:19:06.013 –> 00:19:09.139
Because you may wanna start working
for someone else, but later you

00:19:09.140 –> 00:19:10.339
may wanna work for yourself.

00:19:10.366 –> 00:19:12.445
So maybe you wanna take
some business courses.

00:19:12.445 –> 00:19:13.719
You already have that under your belt.

00:19:13.723 –> 00:19:15.015
You know you can get accepted.

00:19:15.020 –> 00:19:15.989
You’ve been accepted.

00:19:16.252 –> 00:19:20.151
Um, and many of those college, uh,
many, like our local community college,

00:19:20.191 –> 00:19:22.923
um, it’s a fairly simple process
if you’ve already been accepted.

00:19:23.251 –> 00:19:27.327
Uh, and so we wanted to make sure also
that we weren’t … Even though college

00:19:27.327 –> 00:19:31.935
doesn’t have to be for everyone, it
can be very easy in a high poverty,

00:19:32.129 –> 00:19:36.250
majority minority school for people
to look at students and immediately

00:19:36.250 –> 00:19:37.889
label them as not a college student.

00:19:37.902 –> 00:19:41.466
So that’s why we also made sure that every
student was accepted into a college or

00:19:41.466 –> 00:19:49.305
university because we didn’t ever want any
adult to break the spirit of a student.

00:19:49.746 –> 00:19:52.560
And so we did believe that if a
c- child wanted to do a college or

00:19:52.560 –> 00:19:54.543
university, like we can, you can do it.

00:19:54.998 –> 00:19:58.455
And so that was sort of the whole
picture of everything we did.

00:19:58.456 –> 00:20:02.376
We also, um, did some … We did a
lot of research on the front end of

00:20:02.377 –> 00:20:06.242
it, um, and we had our students take
to make sure that they had all those

00:20:06.251 –> 00:20:10.762
background skills necessary for those
AP courses, and we wanted to build up.

00:20:10.765 –> 00:20:15.195
Because when you do have a community
of poverty, the experiences that

00:20:15.195 –> 00:20:18.103
students bring to the table that can
help them in those types of courses

00:20:18.135 –> 00:20:21.698
is not the, the breadth is just
not there and the depth is just not

00:20:21.699 –> 00:20:24.922
necessarily there because they haven’t
had all of those outside experiences.

00:20:24.931 –> 00:20:30.092
So we actually added a course in Latin
so that they learned, um, specifically

00:20:30.093 –> 00:20:35.195
for biology and in science, um, making
sure that they learned all those Latin

00:20:35.197 –> 00:20:36.798
roots because that actually helps them.

00:20:36.798 –> 00:20:41.481
So they took a course in Latin, and we
also created a cohort model for them, so

00:20:41.482 –> 00:20:45.527
they took all of their courses together,
um, because we know that especially for

00:20:45.527 –> 00:20:49.566
students coming from homes of poverty,
having a cohort is really productive.

00:20:49.568 –> 00:20:53.591
And so they created, um, little, they
were little mini armies within our

00:20:53.593 –> 00:20:56.685
school, those AP Pathways kids, and
they stayed connected with each other,

00:20:56.923 –> 00:21:00.380
uh, throughout the years and that was
a really, really great experience.

00:21:00.406 –> 00:21:05.304
And we also, um, every two years,
uh, and I only got through two

00:21:05.304 –> 00:21:07.701
cycles of it because then I left
and went to the central office,

00:21:07.705 –> 00:21:09.437
but we were taking students abroad.

00:21:10.282 –> 00:21:13.410
And so that was part of that AP
Pathways experience was world travel.

00:21:13.750 –> 00:21:16.595
Uh, and it’s actually something
I’m gonna start as superintendent,

00:21:16.856 –> 00:21:20.363
uh, when I have time to get my
nonprofit up and off the ground.

00:21:20.430 –> 00:21:26.709
Um, but I’m gonna start a, a nonprofit
locally where I can take students every

00:21:26.711 –> 00:21:31.452
year abroad, and I will take students
from each of the schools in our district

00:21:31.452 –> 00:21:34.638
who would’ve never gotten to have that
experience, um, and take them abroad.

00:21:34.669 –> 00:21:37.630
So, um, there’s nothing like
world travel to open students’

00:21:37.636 –> 00:21:39.732
eyes up to so many things

00:21:40.776 –> 00:21:44.661
Schools spend millions on new buildings,
renovations, and furniture, and yet too

00:21:44.674 –> 00:21:48.300
often the classrooms that open don’t
change how students actually learn.

00:21:48.551 –> 00:21:51.609
The space looks great, but the
teaching, the vision, and the day-to-day

00:21:51.609 –> 00:21:53.337
practice were never aligned to it.

00:21:53.826 –> 00:21:57.233
It’s a problem school leaders have felt
for years, but it’s rarely been named.

00:21:57.595 –> 00:22:00.247
That’s why we wrote Radically
Student Centered: Learning Space

00:22:00.266 –> 00:22:02.016
Integration for Lasting Impact.

00:22:02.424 –> 00:22:05.852
The book introduces a new approach
called learning space integration.

00:22:06.142 –> 00:22:09.750
It’s about aligning people, pedagogy,
and place so that the learning

00:22:09.750 –> 00:22:13.178
environments you invest in deliver
lasting results for students.

00:22:13.555 –> 00:22:16.456
Whether you’re a school or district
leader, an architect, or part of a

00:22:16.456 –> 00:22:20.093
construction team, this book gives
you a clear path to better decisions,

00:22:20.104 –> 00:22:22.865
stronger processes, and better outcomes.

00:22:23.174 –> 00:22:27.431
Get your copy today at k12.com/rsc-book.

00:22:27.483 –> 00:22:31.752
That’s
K-A-Y-T-W-E-L-V-E.com/R-S-C-B-O-O-K.

00:22:37.509 –> 00:22:42.034
Well, not that you haven’t been
super busy, but you have been, uh,

00:22:42.071 –> 00:22:45.929
there’s other things beyond the
Project 100 and AP Pathways program.

00:22:45.929 –> 00:22:51.675
You also, um, in your district have
created storybooks for students, um,

00:22:51.680 –> 00:22:55.397
predicted to struggle on assessments
with monthly chapters and one-on-one

00:22:55.398 –> 00:22:57.401
meetings between teachers and principals.

00:22:57.846 –> 00:23:02.928
So what inspired that, and how has
it been received by your, your staff?

00:23:04.622 –> 00:23:11.720
The sort of inception of it was that
is how we went from, um 78 bridge

00:23:11.721 –> 00:23:17.651
plans down to zero because we created
individual student success plans.

00:23:18.026 –> 00:23:22.639
And then every three weeks, uh, myself and
my assistant principal and my curriculum

00:23:22.639 –> 00:23:27.601
planner sat down with each teacher in each
assessed area, and they had to run through

00:23:27.601 –> 00:23:30.397
their plan for success for that student.

00:23:31.380 –> 00:23:35.184
And so when I came to the central office,
we’ve been trying to sort of revive

00:23:35.184 –> 00:23:40.224
this plan for success process at the
district level for the past four years.

00:23:40.552 –> 00:23:44.375
And, um, the– they sort of
turned into something else.

00:23:44.387 –> 00:23:48.738
So we had plans for success meetings,
but then in my school when I was a

00:23:48.738 –> 00:23:52.129
principal, we also had student progress
meetings, and the student progress

00:23:52.152 –> 00:23:54.223
meeting was, was the wraparound meeting.

00:23:54.228 –> 00:23:57.897
And student progress meetings
happened every single week, and

00:23:57.898 –> 00:24:00.969
we brought in all of our support
services, so like health department.

00:24:01.275 –> 00:24:04.764
At the time, we didn’t have social
workers, um, but basically our school

00:24:04.766 –> 00:24:09.199
nurse, uh, the health department was
there, our special ed staff was there,

00:24:09.454 –> 00:24:12.441
administrators were there, school
counselors were there, and it was sort

00:24:12.441 –> 00:24:16.147
of, it was, at the time, the best we could
do to give wraparound services for kids.

00:24:16.164 –> 00:24:20.071
So what we found at the district level
was that our success plan meetings had

00:24:20.110 –> 00:24:22.226
actually become student progress meetings.

00:24:22.618 –> 00:24:25.924
And so what happens in a student
progress meeting is everybody

00:24:25.924 –> 00:24:27.573
gets a small piece of the kid.

00:24:27.820 –> 00:24:32.845
So the health department is trying
to, um, to close the gaps in any

00:24:32.866 –> 00:24:34.801
mental or physical health needs.

00:24:35.203 –> 00:24:38.258
The school nurse is contributing sort
of that process of, “Hey, like they’re

00:24:38.259 –> 00:24:41.535
missing a lot of school. It’s because
they have a sinus infection, so like

00:24:41.536 –> 00:24:45.156
let’s try to head that off.” Um, we
did a lot of partnerships with dental

00:24:45.313 –> 00:24:48.065
and things like that to make sure like
those health needs were off the table.

00:24:48.231 –> 00:24:53.867
But what we realized as a district
is that when you do that, no one is

00:24:53.868 –> 00:24:57.947
responsible for a net because everybody’s
just responsible for a piece of a net.

00:24:58.171 –> 00:25:02.672
And the difference in success plans
at a school level for me was that that

00:25:02.872 –> 00:25:07.903
success, success plan actually was what
served as that, that touch point where

00:25:07.904 –> 00:25:09.981
the teacher is responsible for a net.

00:25:10.376 –> 00:25:14.853
And so what we’ve done with our
storybooks is the s-success plans

00:25:14.854 –> 00:25:17.637
as a district sort of went in the
student progress meeting direction.

00:25:17.637 –> 00:25:20.660
So we were like, “Okay, how do
we…” We spent all summer figuring

00:25:20.660 –> 00:25:22.019
out how do we get back to this?

00:25:22.058 –> 00:25:27.341
And we have so many data points in
education that sometimes I think

00:25:27.342 –> 00:25:28.912
the data becomes overwhelming.

00:25:29.296 –> 00:25:34.053
And data is wonderful and, and it’s great
to have rich data, but also sometimes

00:25:34.053 –> 00:25:35.305
you gotta go back to the basics.

00:25:35.325 –> 00:25:40.187
And so for us, like when we had, when we
had, um, our bridge plans that we wanted

00:25:40.187 –> 00:25:43.761
to get to zero, we were like, “Okay,
this year we’re gonna, we’re gonna, we’re

00:25:43.761 –> 00:25:46.403
gonna get to zero, but this year our
goal is gonna be to have it, have that

00:25:46.403 –> 00:25:48.601
number in half.” And that’s really simple.

00:25:49.129 –> 00:25:52.694
And when you sit down with a teacher
one-on-one with a storybook and they have

00:25:52.695 –> 00:25:56.114
to go through each chapter each month
with the principal, and you’re talking

00:25:56.115 –> 00:25:59.277
about it like someone’s responsible
for a net, ’cause the net’s projected

00:25:59.277 –> 00:26:02.980
not to fail, and that someone is my
teacher, who is exactly who should

00:26:02.993 –> 00:26:04.858
be responsible for, for my learning.

00:26:05.055 –> 00:26:09.716
The other people can be supports to the
teacher And we only talk about things

00:26:09.718 –> 00:26:11.298
that are within our locus of control.

00:26:12.279 –> 00:26:14.718
So we don’t talk about
the student’s home life.

00:26:14.755 –> 00:26:17.371
That can happen, that happens
in our success plan meeting when

00:26:17.371 –> 00:26:18.532
we have wraparound services.

00:26:18.712 –> 00:26:21.122
But we only talk about the
things that we can control.

00:26:21.144 –> 00:26:25.292
So tier one instruction, tier two,
tier three instruction if they need it.

00:26:25.309 –> 00:26:26.715
Those are things they can control.

00:26:27.523 –> 00:26:29.658
We have after-school academies
in all of our schools.

00:26:29.658 –> 00:26:32.234
They can teach after-school
academy to that student.

00:26:33.293 –> 00:26:35.032
And then we’re gonna meet every
month and we’re gonna talk

00:26:35.043 –> 00:26:36.159
about like, “Has the net moved?”

00:26:36.675 –> 00:26:40.942
Because at the end of the day, if
Katie is my teacher, it’s Katie’s

00:26:40.955 –> 00:26:42.358
responsibility to make sure I move.

00:26:42.392 –> 00:26:43.783
That’s actually our job.

00:26:44.422 –> 00:26:50.529
And so what a tremendous responsibility
because I think teachers might just be

00:26:50.529 –> 00:26:52.078
the most important people in the world.

00:26:52.938 –> 00:26:54.544
What a tremendous responsibility.

00:26:54.575 –> 00:26:58.289
But like if we’re not doing that, I have
lots of questions about what we’re doing.

00:26:59.184 –> 00:26:59.763
You know?

00:26:59.902 –> 00:27:03.778
The school to prison pipeline
information data has been out

00:27:03.779 –> 00:27:05.673
for probably 20 years now.

00:27:06.207 –> 00:27:08.738
We know what happens when kids
can’t read on grade level.

00:27:09.551 –> 00:27:13.332
And so I was just talking with staff this
morning in a, in a big presentation to a

00:27:13.332 –> 00:27:19.727
staff and I was like, “We had 133 kids the
year before last. Last year we had 109.”

00:27:19.865 –> 00:27:24.006
I was like, “Our goal for this year is
50.” And we all have to, number one,

00:27:24.007 –> 00:27:27.902
believe that every kid can read on
grade level by grade three, and then

00:27:27.903 –> 00:27:29.669
we just have to focus in on those kids.

00:27:29.678 –> 00:27:32.555
Because if you think about it,
we’ve got five elementary schools.

00:27:33.488 –> 00:27:38.079
So I have 109 kids across five elementary
schools across four or five classrooms.

00:27:38.084 –> 00:27:39.290
That’s only a couple kids.

00:27:40.476 –> 00:27:43.216
It’s only a couple kids per teacher,
so we gotta cut that number in half.

00:27:43.593 –> 00:27:44.573
That’s our goal.

00:27:44.840 –> 00:27:50.606
Um, and if we’re not doing that though,
like I have these big questions in my

00:27:50.609 –> 00:27:54.706
mind, even as a nation around what are
we doing if we’re not focusing on that

00:27:54.708 –> 00:27:58.599
when we know that there’s no positive
outcome predicted for a student who’s

00:27:58.599 –> 00:28:00.046
not on grade level by grade three?

00:28:00.076 –> 00:28:04.594
And then after grade three, so everybody
before grade three we’ve done a lot of

00:28:04.594 –> 00:28:09.535
focus in the last year around building
up our early childhood because, and

00:28:09.535 –> 00:28:13.233
research says the same thing, but you get
the most growth up to like first grade.

00:28:14.168 –> 00:28:18.196
And so we’re seeing tremendous
growth in our kids, um, from

00:28:18.197 –> 00:28:19.599
pre-K three to first grade.

00:28:19.617 –> 00:28:20.818
I’d love to have two-year-olds.

00:28:20.821 –> 00:28:21.679
That’s my dream.

00:28:21.990 –> 00:28:24.749
Um, but we’re seeing
huge growth from them.

00:28:24.977 –> 00:28:28.487
So that, that grade three
benchmark is a benchmark for

00:28:28.510 –> 00:28:29.875
everybody that comes before it.

00:28:29.880 –> 00:28:33.821
And then after grade three the benchmark
is everybody has to stay on grade level.

00:28:34.514 –> 00:28:38.237
And so the beautiful thing is that
we have very rich data to tell us who

00:28:38.239 –> 00:28:42.213
those kids are, um, but after that
it really just needs to be focused.

00:28:42.233 –> 00:28:47.070
And I would guess every district I’ve ever
visited or been a part of, there’s always

00:28:47.071 –> 00:28:49.060
room for tier one instruction to grow.

00:28:49.633 –> 00:28:52.925
Whether it’s teaching bell to bell,
whether it’s using every one of those

00:28:52.925 –> 00:28:57.516
instructional minutes, um, with purpose,
whether it’s making sure that your

00:28:57.516 –> 00:29:00.399
learning targets and your success
criteria are on, whether it’s making

00:29:00.399 –> 00:29:04.130
sure that you’ve developed a relationship
because that’s the other piece of it’s

00:29:04.147 –> 00:29:09.634
literacy and belonging And I actually
sat down with the principal at the end

00:29:09.634 –> 00:29:12.581
of the school year last year, and we
look at every single kid who failed.

00:29:12.837 –> 00:29:16.558
And I said to the principal, I was
like, “Did, did you guys, did the

00:29:16.558 –> 00:29:20.121
teacher and, and the administration,
like your team, have a positive

00:29:20.121 –> 00:29:22.627
relationship with the student and
the parent?” And they said, no.

00:29:23.114 –> 00:29:25.501
And then I moved up to the next kid
who didn’t pass and I said, “What

00:29:25.502 –> 00:29:27.146
about this kid?” And they said, no.

00:29:27.330 –> 00:29:28.267
We went through the whole list.

00:29:28.289 –> 00:29:31.731
Now mind you, the list wasn’t long
because we’re only probably talking

00:29:31.740 –> 00:29:34.532
about like 15 kids-ish per school.

00:29:34.947 –> 00:29:38.303
So the list wasn’t long, but the
interesting and impactful thing for me

00:29:38.303 –> 00:29:44.303
in that moment was, oh my gosh Number
one, I know relationships are critical,

00:29:44.493 –> 00:29:47.373
but like when you know you don’t have
a positive relationship with them,

00:29:47.379 –> 00:29:48.976
that’s telling us our outcomes too.

00:29:49.448 –> 00:29:52.426
Like, I don’t even need the DIBELS data
’cause I could just say to you in first

00:29:52.426 –> 00:29:55.599
grade, “Who do you not have positive–
Who doesn’t have a positive relationship

00:29:55.599 –> 00:29:59.286
with an adult in the building?” And that’s
something that we also started at Pocomoke

00:29:59.286 –> 00:30:03.405
High School, was making sure that every
single child had a positive connection

00:30:03.405 –> 00:30:04.931
with adult, an adult in the building.

00:30:05.853 –> 00:30:09.365
And now they’ve taken it and made it into
a really big and robust, since I’ve left,

00:30:09.366 –> 00:30:13.604
process called Be The One, where every
child picks out who is their one person.

00:30:13.879 –> 00:30:17.669
Um, but I made sure I had every
student’s face up in our workroom.

00:30:17.906 –> 00:30:20.728
And so every single student in
our, in our school, their face

00:30:20.729 –> 00:30:21.957
was posted in our workroom.

00:30:22.836 –> 00:30:26.599
And staff had to, uh, every student
by the end of the first quarter had to

00:30:26.608 –> 00:30:28.332
have at least one positive connection.

00:30:28.340 –> 00:30:30.293
You could write a postcard,
you could do a phone call.

00:30:30.605 –> 00:30:31.990
Um, no emails.

00:30:31.994 –> 00:30:34.123
Like it had to even… Like,
it had to be a personal touch.

00:30:34.123 –> 00:30:36.965
So like a postcard is a very
personal touch, um, or a

00:30:36.965 –> 00:30:38.228
phone call that was positive.

00:30:38.240 –> 00:30:43.290
And then after that first sort of, um,
cycle of that, like we added it more.

00:30:43.291 –> 00:30:45.731
So you had to have two in the first
quarter, and then every student had

00:30:45.731 –> 00:30:46.998
to have three in the first quarter.

00:30:47.000 –> 00:30:51.300
And so it really changed the culture
of our school, and it changed

00:30:51.311 –> 00:30:54.327
the culture of our relationships
between our adults and kids.

00:30:54.353 –> 00:30:58.262
Because not to go back to like … I
always think like, it’s not that hard.

00:30:59.038 –> 00:31:00.022
I was a teacher.

00:31:00.117 –> 00:31:01.503
It’s not, it’s not that hard.

00:31:01.532 –> 00:31:04.501
It, I mean, it’s infinitely hard,
but it’s also not that hard.

00:31:04.869 –> 00:31:08.889
And so thinking about Rita Pierson and
what she said, and like, “Kids don’t learn

00:31:08.889 –> 00:31:10.512
from people they don’t like,” period.

00:31:11.557 –> 00:31:12.084
Period.

00:31:12.951 –> 00:31:16.668
And so when we talk about relationships,
and I sit down with a principal and I say,

00:31:16.917 –> 00:31:18.579
“Did you have a positive relationship?”

00:31:18.579 –> 00:31:21.942
Like that was like a shot to the
heart to go through that whole list.

00:31:21.957 –> 00:31:26.969
And, and I also, I think there’s this
idea of like, uh, my last, and I’ll

00:31:26.974 –> 00:31:29.958
use a different name because I, I don’t
wanna reveal the name of the student,

00:31:29.959 –> 00:31:35.083
but my last year teaching, uh, I was
teaching Algebra 1 and AP Stats and AP

00:31:35.096 –> 00:31:38.651
Calculus, the lowest and the highest
level of courses in the building.

00:31:38.851 –> 00:31:41.691
And I had one student who did not
pass the high school assessment.

00:31:41.696 –> 00:31:45.878
And to this day, I’m gonna use a
different name, Steven haunts me.

00:31:46.489 –> 00:31:51.586
And I think to myself, now that I have
all these tools in my toolkit, I would’ve

00:31:51.586 –> 00:31:52.858
definitely been able to reach him.

00:31:53.076 –> 00:31:57.126
Like we have gi- we give our teachers
so many tools now in our school district

00:31:57.430 –> 00:32:02.597
that they have multiple strategies to
try to access a positive relationship.

00:32:02.949 –> 00:32:07.677
Um, you know, and there was a, another
study done that was talking about

00:32:07.677 –> 00:32:12.030
telling teachers that students were
gifted, and so they did a control group

00:32:12.030 –> 00:32:15.209
and, and they told a group of teachers
that their kids were gifted, and the

00:32:15.209 –> 00:32:19.449
kids were not, did not in fact have any
assessment that said they were gifted.

00:32:19.449 –> 00:32:21.377
They literally were randomly selected.

00:32:21.656 –> 00:32:25.174
Um, and not only did their performance
on state assessments improve,

00:32:25.958 –> 00:32:27.779
but their IQ actually increased.

00:32:28.333 –> 00:32:33.835
So in education, we have to make
sure- That every student feels

00:32:33.836 –> 00:32:37.321
like they belong, and it goes back
to, like, our every, knowing every

00:32:37.321 –> 00:32:38.491
student by name, strength, and need.

00:32:38.505 –> 00:32:42.957
And having that positive relationship
with a kid and their family, because

00:32:42.957 –> 00:32:45.290
number one, if you don’t believe they
can achieve, it’s not gonna happen.

00:32:45.292 –> 00:32:49.669
But number two, if you don’t develop a
relationship with your kids, it’s just

00:32:49.805 –> 00:32:54.107
bridging that gap if they’re a struggling
learner, it’s just not gonna happen.

00:32:54.929 –> 00:32:56.612
And so it’s, it’s as simple as that

00:32:58.033 –> 00:33:02.611
And that really just kind of segues
right into what I wanted you to

00:33:02.611 –> 00:33:06.527
comment on next, which the– our, our
core theme at “The Better Learning

00:33:06.548 –> 00:33:08.658
Podcast” is radically student-centered.

00:33:09.021 –> 00:33:14.819
So, I mean, pretty much everything
you’ve said goes right toward that theme.

00:33:15.112 –> 00:33:17.749
But when you hear that phrase,
radically student-centered,

00:33:18.463 –> 00:33:19.746
what does that mean to you?

00:33:19.748 –> 00:33:22.868
I, I know it means probably all the
things that you just spoke of, but is

00:33:22.869 –> 00:33:25.302
there anything you can add to that?

00:33:26.161 –> 00:33:30.516
When I first heard the phrase associated
with your podcast, I was like, “Oh, I love

00:33:30.718 –> 00:33:35.861
that I now have a phrase that I can use
that sort of captures the heart of the

00:33:35.862 –> 00:33:39.528
work that we do every day, and the beliefs
that we have in our school district of

00:33:39.540 –> 00:33:44.004
being radically student-centered.” So
like, I am not centered on adult outcomes.

00:33:44.275 –> 00:33:47.207
That does not mean that I’m not
gonna build a positive school culture

00:33:47.210 –> 00:33:48.353
for the adults in our building.

00:33:48.577 –> 00:33:52.570
Um, a- and also, like, our belief as
a system that everyone is an educator.

00:33:52.752 –> 00:33:55.953
So like, you could walk in Pocomoke High
School right now and you might see a

00:33:55.953 –> 00:33:59.495
custodian sitting side by side with a
student in English class working with

00:33:59.496 –> 00:34:03.431
a student, mentoring them, working with
them on whatever their assignment is.

00:34:03.439 –> 00:34:05.432
So everyone is an educator.

00:34:05.970 –> 00:34:08.975
Everyone has a piece of this
educational process because that

00:34:08.976 –> 00:34:12.245
builds a culture for adults where
everyone is appreciated and everyone

00:34:12.245 –> 00:34:14.160
has a really, really important job.

00:34:14.540 –> 00:34:16.753
Um, and that is to focus on the student.

00:34:17.315 –> 00:34:20.959
And so everything we do as a school
district, everything that we do,

00:34:21.190 –> 00:34:25.936
um, I did as a principal, was
centered around student outcomes.

00:34:25.962 –> 00:34:28.910
And when I think about the word, like
radically student-centered, I think

00:34:28.921 –> 00:34:30.514
about like radical student outcomes.

00:34:30.517 –> 00:34:34.700
And so radical student outcomes are every
child is on grade level by grade three.

00:34:35.729 –> 00:34:37.186
That’s a radical student outcome.

00:34:37.215 –> 00:34:39.981
A radical student outcome is there
are no bridge projects in a school.

00:34:40.587 –> 00:34:45.348
And so I think the way that you get
to a radical student outcome, which

00:34:45.348 –> 00:34:50.452
is a very big, scary, just right
goal for every single school, is

00:34:50.463 –> 00:34:51.901
to be radically student-centered.

00:34:51.902 –> 00:34:56.197
I think the two cannot happen without one
another, and it- you have to have strong

00:34:56.200 –> 00:35:01.806
cur- curriculum, you have to have strong,
um, social, emotional … And, and I know

00:35:01.807 –> 00:35:06.615
that term is, in some, you know, in 2026
sometimes people don’t like that term.

00:35:06.618 –> 00:35:10.611
But it’s, it’s what we do in our
homes when we have a home that’s

00:35:10.617 –> 00:35:14.385
very supportive, um, it’s making sure
that we have all those systems in

00:35:14.388 –> 00:35:16.289
place that we’re staying regulated.

00:35:16.575 –> 00:35:19.708
Um, so we do a lot of work in our
school district too around conscious

00:35:19.708 –> 00:35:24.478
discipline, which connects to this idea
of radically student-centered because

00:35:24.605 –> 00:35:29.149
conscious discipline is all about the
environment that we create for students

00:35:29.152 –> 00:35:35.641
to learn, and how we take responsibility
for our actions to elevate or deescalate

00:35:35.645 –> 00:35:36.539
a student when they’re struggling.

00:35:37.359 –> 00:35:40.241
And we all know that when we start
talking about our students that aren’t

00:35:40.251 –> 00:35:44.016
having the outcomes that we need, um,
I, I can tell you, you can probably

00:35:44.017 –> 00:35:47.126
talk to any administrator in the whole
country and they will tell you, “Every

00:35:47.128 –> 00:35:51.900
time I read a referral-” Until you have
the school culture that you want, every

00:35:51.900 –> 00:35:55.523
time you read a referral, you will see
a place where the adult could have made

00:35:55.524 –> 00:35:59.257
a different decision and they chose
to escalate instead of deescalate, and

00:35:59.257 –> 00:36:03.123
the student would never be in front of
you if the adult had stayed regulated.

00:36:03.430 –> 00:36:08.192
And I would say like, nine out of 10
referrals, uh, were, were like that until

00:36:08.192 –> 00:36:12.978
we built a school culture where we weren’t
excluding kids, because that’s what

00:36:12.987 –> 00:36:14.581
happens when you get sent out of class.

00:36:14.814 –> 00:36:18.797
And what’s interesting about our district
is our exclusionary, not only are we

00:36:18.844 –> 00:36:23.776
top performing, but our exclusionary
practices have reduced significantly

00:36:23.816 –> 00:36:27.043
and it’s because of our work around safe
and supportive schools and belonging.

00:36:27.895 –> 00:36:31.083
But at the same time, we have a
Maryland school climate survey

00:36:31.083 –> 00:36:32.655
and part of it focuses on safety.

00:36:32.841 –> 00:36:36.399
At the same time, how safe students
feel at school has also risen.

00:36:36.678 –> 00:36:39.752
So, you know, there’s a lot of folks
that wanna shoot, you know, holes in

00:36:39.752 –> 00:36:44.595
this idea of, “Oh, you’re reducing
your suspensions, um, but that’s just

00:36:44.595 –> 00:36:45.795
because you’re not suspending kids.”

00:36:45.835 –> 00:36:47.355
No, not in our district.

00:36:47.374 –> 00:36:50.792
In our district our kids are actually
saying like, “We actually feel safer at

00:36:50.792 –> 00:36:53.975
school,” which is an outstanding outcome.

00:36:54.010 –> 00:36:55.406
So exciting for us to hear.

00:36:55.406 –> 00:36:57.804
But I think the two are connected.

00:36:57.804 –> 00:37:00.850
I think every kid deserves a radical
outcome, so how do you do that?

00:37:00.854 –> 00:37:02.297
By being radically student-centered

00:37:03.533 –> 00:37:09.951
And, um, you and I actually had a
conversation earlier, um, and, and

00:37:10.146 –> 00:37:13.115
you compared teachers to surgeons,
and I loved that comparison.

00:37:13.116 –> 00:37:15.667
I’ve never really thought
of it in those, in that way.

00:37:15.672 –> 00:37:20.146
But when you made that comparison, you
know, when you were– you specifically

00:37:20.194 –> 00:37:25.151
referred to, you know, the impact
that, um, they have on a child’s life.

00:37:25.157 –> 00:37:29.969
So just talk about that comparison
a little bit for our audience.

00:37:31.139 –> 00:37:35.371
Yeah, I, I think teaching I, I compare
it to two things regularly, and one is

00:37:35.372 –> 00:37:39.183
being a surgeon, and one is that this
is like a ministry because, like, I do

00:37:39.184 –> 00:37:43.464
believe, like, for me, um, throughout
my whole career I was really blessed.

00:37:43.464 –> 00:37:46.283
I had a coach one time tell me, “Annette,
you should choose a career where you

00:37:46.296 –> 00:37:47.860
never feel like you’re going to work.”

00:37:48.165 –> 00:37:51.567
And I think that’s what happens when,
like, you pick ministry because it’s

00:37:51.572 –> 00:37:54.349
just how you live and how you operate.

00:37:54.685 –> 00:37:59.728
And, um, when I think about, like,
the ministry that we, that we do every

00:37:59.728 –> 00:38:03.197
day with our kids, but I also think
about, like, the importance of how

00:38:03.197 –> 00:38:07.434
teachers are more important than even
a doctor because teachers are, and it,

00:38:07.475 –> 00:38:13.602
it sounds, like, sort of foundational,
but teachers have the ability to either

00:38:13.663 –> 00:38:19.010
catapult a student to a completely
different trajectory by speaking life

00:38:19.010 –> 00:38:24.523
into the student, by believing in them,
by giving them access to high-quality

00:38:24.523 –> 00:38:28.142
instructional materials, by having high
expectations and the right level of

00:38:28.144 –> 00:38:32.293
scaffolds because it’s not about high
expectations and high support, it’s about

00:38:32.305 –> 00:38:37.020
high expectations and the right supports
because we never wanna over-scaffold

00:38:37.047 –> 00:38:38.897
because then we put a ceiling on our kids.

00:38:39.305 –> 00:38:43.238
And so when I think about, you know,
teachers being, like, in this career

00:38:43.238 –> 00:38:48.861
that’s so, you know, important, you know,
we think about surgeons as people who save

00:38:48.862 –> 00:38:51.332
lives, teachers are people who give life.

00:38:52.605 –> 00:38:58.685
And what a tremendous and scary, but just
right job to be in when you believe it’s

00:38:58.694 –> 00:39:02.081
also a ministry because then every day

00:39:02.083 –> 00:39:03.526
And we have to check ourselves as adults.

00:39:03.541 –> 00:39:08.920
Do not get me wrong, I do not get this
right every single day, but I check myself

00:39:08.931 –> 00:39:11.969
also, and our team checks ourselves.

00:39:11.981 –> 00:39:18.374
We always ask ourselves, “Is this decision
good for all students?” Because if the

00:39:18.375 –> 00:39:21.872
decision is only good for some students,
and only some students benefit, we all

00:39:21.872 –> 00:39:26.421
know who those some students always are,
and that’s not the group of students

00:39:26.678 –> 00:39:28.413
that we’re not reaching in our building.

00:39:28.420 –> 00:39:31.640
So we have to make sure that that
decision is right for all students.

00:39:31.654 –> 00:39:36.286
But, you know, you just think about
the idea of, like, saving lives,

00:39:36.287 –> 00:39:37.738
like, we’re saving lives too.

00:39:37.754 –> 00:39:42.079
Like, we’re giving life, and we’re
saving lives because every educator could

00:39:42.081 –> 00:39:47.923
probably, um, name a student who they saw
something happen in that student while

00:39:47.923 –> 00:39:51.659
they were in their classroom, and it
just completely changed the trajectory

00:39:51.928 –> 00:39:56.160
of that whole student’s outcomes through
school and outcomes out of school

00:39:58.028 –> 00:40:01.069
Well, and you’ve talked about
time is up when it comes to

00:40:01.115 –> 00:40:03.278
closing educational disparities.

00:40:03.645 –> 00:40:06.980
So what does that urgency
look like in, in practice?

00:40:08.233 –> 00:40:08.554
Yeah.

00:40:09.998 –> 00:40:13.505
You know, I, I always go back to that
school to prison pipeline research that

00:40:13.507 –> 00:40:17.712
I believe was, like, in the ’90s, and so
we’ve known this for a very long time.

00:40:18.547 –> 00:40:24.593
It’s almost puzzling to me why no
one just says it, and no one is

00:40:24.594 –> 00:40:28.704
like, “As a nation, we aren’t like…
We have a crisis because we’re not

00:40:28.704 –> 00:40:30.107
reaching every kid, and we’re not…”

00:40:30.290 –> 00:40:33.927
Well, when kids aren’t literate when they
leave us, it doesn’t get better for them.

00:40:34.662 –> 00:40:38.619
And so, like, for me, it’s a moral
imperative of, like, if you know this

00:40:38.619 –> 00:40:43.255
child is headed for bad outcomes if they
can’t be on grade level by grade three,

00:40:44.469 –> 00:40:48.174
I, sometimes am just puzzled at how
we aren’t all just fired up about it.

00:40:48.190 –> 00:40:50.197
Like, it gets me fired
up to talk about it.

00:40:50.197 –> 00:40:54.236
Like, I lose sleep every night about
109 kids that are now in fourth grade

00:40:55.587 –> 00:40:59.725
And until we’re down to zero, I will
continue to lose sleep over those kids

00:40:59.962 –> 00:41:02.060
because I know what road is ahead of them.

00:41:03.037 –> 00:41:03.943
We all know.

00:41:04.647 –> 00:41:08.024
Every single superintendent should
know exactly how many kids is in

00:41:08.026 –> 00:41:12.411
our grade level in grade three
because it’s so pivotal to the

00:41:12.413 –> 00:41:14.676
success of the rest of their lives.

00:41:15.078 –> 00:41:17.689
And we think about all the
things that start happening.

00:41:17.690 –> 00:41:20.906
You know, I’ve ha- I have conversations
with our school principals, um,

00:41:20.942 –> 00:41:22.092
every time we sit down and meet.

00:41:22.113 –> 00:41:26.401
We’re focused on these specific
kids that have storybooks, and we’re

00:41:26.460 –> 00:41:31.698
focused specifically on how can we
create a better outcome for them.

00:41:31.698 –> 00:41:33.812
And I said, like imagine being a student.

00:41:34.515 –> 00:41:38.195
Like I know for myself in my own personal
experience, I have someone in my, my

00:41:38.197 –> 00:41:43.518
immediate sort of family that I love very
much, um, who is, who, uh, is experiences

00:41:43.520 –> 00:41:45.224
some special and unique challenges.

00:41:45.570 –> 00:41:52.603
Um, and after first grade he came
home and he said, “I failed and

00:41:52.603 –> 00:41:54.978
so I have to go to summer school.”
And we’re like, “Where did this…”

00:41:55.031 –> 00:41:55.458
You know?

00:41:55.631 –> 00:41:59.286
So as young as first grade, and I’ve had
a lot of conversations with staff, and

00:41:59.286 –> 00:42:03.643
they’re kinda like, “Yeah, I think that is
that pivot point of where a kid realizes

00:42:03.645 –> 00:42:05.450
for the first time, ‘Hold on a second.

00:42:05.759 –> 00:42:06.529
I’m different.

00:42:07.223 –> 00:42:09.566
I’m not experiencing
the success of my peers.

00:42:09.611 –> 00:42:15.887
I can’t do what they can do.'” And so,
um, you know, when we think about that,

00:42:15.908 –> 00:42:19.737
think about that student now in second
grade struggling, third grade struggling,

00:42:19.762 –> 00:42:22.835
fourth grade struggling, fifth grade
struggling, sixth grade, seventh grade.

00:42:23.194 –> 00:42:26.377
And that was where we got to ’cause that
was the principal’s first grade level

00:42:26.377 –> 00:42:27.726
that they got to was seventh grade.

00:42:28.157 –> 00:42:32.513
And I was like, I said, “Imagine all
the strategies they put in place to

00:42:32.513 –> 00:42:38.145
avoid shame.” ‘Cause let’s be real,
like when you can’t read, it’s, that

00:42:38.145 –> 00:42:40.380
creates a feeling of shame for our kids.

00:42:40.588 –> 00:42:44.496
You definitely don’t feel like you belong
because you know all those feelings

00:42:44.496 –> 00:42:45.714
that are going into middle school kids.

00:42:45.714 –> 00:42:47.887
Like, there’s stuff that’s
physically happening to you.

00:42:47.901 –> 00:42:49.265
There’s hormones.

00:42:49.268 –> 00:42:51.525
There’s all kinds of things that
are happening to you, so it’s a

00:42:51.526 –> 00:42:53.034
very confusing time in general.

00:42:53.205 –> 00:42:56.585
But not to have a sense of belonging,
and then what do you end up doing?

00:42:56.611 –> 00:43:02.150
Like, you end up gravitating towards
other friends who are experiencing

00:43:02.153 –> 00:43:05.964
probably the same outcomes as you,
and then it, it isn’t productive.

00:43:06.039 –> 00:43:07.412
Like, we don’t see the growth.

00:43:07.446 –> 00:43:10.735
And she was like, “Wow, Go- I
never thought of like what it might

00:43:10.735 –> 00:43:14.055
be like to be in seventh grade
and have struggled from pre-K to

00:43:14.060 –> 00:43:15.831
seventh grade.” Like, you’re right.

00:43:15.847 –> 00:43:19.595
No wonder they have these big
behaviors and these big feelings.

00:43:20.148 –> 00:43:22.471
But the key is we gotta
solve it in third grade.

00:43:23.528 –> 00:43:27.930
We’ve gotta solve it by third grade
because even first grade, it- we looked

00:43:27.930 –> 00:43:30.885
at our district and I would be interested
to like look at other districts, but in

00:43:30.888 –> 00:43:34.748
first grade, you know, we have, we’ve
triangulated all, all of our data back.

00:43:34.755 –> 00:43:39.886
So I can pick up, and we know as early
as like 18 months we can cite out kids

00:43:39.886 –> 00:43:40.968
who are gonna struggle in reading.

00:43:40.970 –> 00:43:42.229
You can kinda parse them out.

00:43:42.242 –> 00:43:44.647
You can start to know at 18 months
who’s gonna struggle and who isn’t.

00:43:45.009 –> 00:43:47.761
But by first grade we have
that data triangulated.

00:43:48.506 –> 00:43:51.828
When we looked at our third graders
and we look back to their first grade

00:43:51.840 –> 00:43:54.793
data, we only moved 23% of them.

00:43:55.955 –> 00:44:00.111
So now the good thing for us is that we
have them on such a strong trajectory

00:44:00.112 –> 00:44:04.441
up to first grade, and our early, um,
childhood area is so strong that they’re

00:44:04.441 –> 00:44:07.638
moving kids a l- they’re moving a lot
of kids before they get to first grade.

00:44:07.893 –> 00:44:10.233
So we’re making up for a
lot of lost time there.

00:44:10.465 –> 00:44:14.270
But to think after first grade we’re
only moving 23% of our kids, that’s

00:44:14.270 –> 00:44:15.742
not a statistic to be proud of.

00:44:16.731 –> 00:44:19.621
And so, you know, we know,
but we know all those feelings

00:44:19.621 –> 00:44:20.797
are starting to happen, right?

00:44:20.812 –> 00:44:26.950
So we’re really honing in and focusing
on making sure like at those early

00:44:26.951 –> 00:44:31.252
intervention stages we aren’t missing
anyone, we’re making sure that we’re

00:44:31.252 –> 00:44:38.780
creating high, um, really strong
experiences for our students, um, at

00:44:38.781 –> 00:44:42.268
those early ages because it’s just tough.

00:44:42.316 –> 00:44:45.846
Like I, you know, and I was a high school
principal so when they got to me like

00:44:45.846 –> 00:44:50.075
there was this sense of urgency of like we
only have four years to get it right, and

00:44:50.148 –> 00:44:52.123
that created kind of our sense of urgency.

00:44:52.123 –> 00:44:57.342
But I think as a whole district It has to
create some sort of sense of urgency to

00:44:57.343 –> 00:45:00.311
know what the outcomes are gonna be when
these kids can’t read by third grade.

00:45:00.549 –> 00:45:05.867
And I think as a nation, that’s what
sort of that moral imperative of like

00:45:05.905 –> 00:45:07.306
everyone deserves to be literate.

00:45:07.319 –> 00:45:10.537
Like being literate is like
the base, know what I mean?

00:45:10.537 –> 00:45:14.468
Like I, my goal isn’t just for our kids
to be literate and be on grade level,

00:45:14.471 –> 00:45:17.512
like I have much bigger goals for them,
but like we kinda have to start there

00:45:18.138 –> 00:45:20.943
because we’re, while we’re the highest
performing district in the state of

00:45:20.943 –> 00:45:22.827
Maryland, we aren’t getting all kids.

00:45:23.332 –> 00:45:25.688
And the fact is after third
grade we lose more and more.

00:45:25.688 –> 00:45:27.794
A couple f- just like every
other district, a couple more

00:45:27.794 –> 00:45:29.097
fall off the wagon every year.

00:45:29.098 –> 00:45:32.967
So I think that’s what sort of creates
this sense of urgency is, is the

00:45:32.968 –> 00:45:37.659
moral imperative and, and it is my
job as a superintendent to tell that

00:45:37.661 –> 00:45:42.144
story and sort of build that moral
imperative for staff so they feel like

00:45:42.393 –> 00:45:45.617
And, and listen, I don’t want my staff
staying up being haunted by kids, but at

00:45:45.619 –> 00:45:52.277
the same time, like I’m haunted by them
because I know that if I can’t fix it by

00:45:52.277 –> 00:45:54.041
third grade, I know we’re not fixing it.

00:45:54.100 –> 00:45:57.129
And, and I don’t, I don’t want
that outcome for any human

00:45:58.723 –> 00:46:02.030
Well, you shared a little story
with me about your staff actually.

00:46:02.037 –> 00:46:07.928
Um, you spoke about a lip-sync
video that y- you all made, and I

00:46:07.928 –> 00:46:09.450
believe it was “This Is Me” right?

00:46:09.451 –> 00:46:11.569
From the Greatest Showman movie.

00:46:11.570 –> 00:46:16.275
So I thought just as we wrap our
conversation up, it would be fun for our

00:46:16.275 –> 00:46:22.091
audience to, to hear about that because
I think though it’s a, a little less

00:46:22.101 –> 00:46:29.766
serious and maybe, um, more fun than
anything, it, it also really speaks to, to

00:46:30.066 –> 00:46:31.922
your leadership style and your district.

00:46:31.931 –> 00:46:32.804
So tell us about it.

00:46:33.241 –> 00:46:36.687
So, uh, several years ago we started
doing, uh, lip sync videos back

00:46:36.689 –> 00:46:39.253
to school, and we’ve done a lot
of different things over time.

00:46:39.496 –> 00:46:42.129
Um, we actually did, like, a lip sync
battle and when we were meeting all

00:46:42.129 –> 00:46:45.101
together before COVID, we actually
had the winners and we voted as a

00:46:45.101 –> 00:46:48.145
district, and then we had the winners
and they performed on a big stage in,

00:46:48.148 –> 00:46:52.758
like, a real, um, lip sync battle and
had a, had a district-wide winner.

00:46:53.018 –> 00:46:55.401
Um, so the top two, like,
performed for the whole district.

00:46:55.401 –> 00:46:56.271
It was really cool.

00:46:56.501 –> 00:47:00.398
Uh, but we’ve done a lot of different
videos and, uh, since I became the

00:47:00.399 –> 00:47:04.440
superintendent, I did a lot of work
around safe and supportive schools in my

00:47:04.453 –> 00:47:08.442
former roles as the chief safety officer
and academic officer for high schools.

00:47:08.783 –> 00:47:13.215
Um, but we really worked
on connecting this idea of

00:47:13.215 –> 00:47:15.103
belonging and literacy together.

00:47:15.367 –> 00:47:18.261
And so when we were thinking about
knowing every student by name, strength,

00:47:18.262 –> 00:47:23.363
and need, um, this year our theme is,
um, every story matters and every child

00:47:23.365 –> 00:47:26.779
belongs, so we’re continuing to make
that connection between belonging.

00:47:27.049 –> 00:47:31.386
And when you think about The Greatest
Showman and you think about, um, the music

00:47:31.387 –> 00:47:35.204
video of This is Me, it just seemed to be
the perfect intersection of everything we

00:47:35.205 –> 00:47:36.923
were trying to inspire in our district.

00:47:36.953 –> 00:47:42.034
Because, um, those folks were not,
uh, as… It was interesting, we had

00:47:42.034 –> 00:47:45.508
some students come in this summer
and speak to us, and they spoke

00:47:45.510 –> 00:47:49.422
to us about star students who get
special treatment in our schools.

00:47:49.445 –> 00:47:52.864
And I’ll tell you, you could have
knocked people in the room over with

00:47:52.866 –> 00:47:55.912
a feather because it’s the exact
thing that I’m talking about and

00:47:55.913 –> 00:47:57.317
we’re talking about all the time.

00:47:57.488 –> 00:48:00.803
But to hear from a kid that they
knew they weren’t a star student

00:48:00.803 –> 00:48:04.409
in your building, and it was, it
was an interesting experience.

00:48:04.420 –> 00:48:07.347
So we kind of took all those things
and then we thought, gosh, what

00:48:07.348 –> 00:48:13.287
a perfect song and what a perfect
message of belonging, um, and also,

00:48:13.288 –> 00:48:15.312
like, owning up to who you are.

00:48:15.619 –> 00:48:21.317
Because we all have a story, and we all
have a story that’s worth telling and we

00:48:21.317 –> 00:48:22.907
have a story that’s worth believing in.

00:48:23.432 –> 00:48:27.575
And so when we can get that right and
when we, we know as a district that every

00:48:27.575 –> 00:48:31.850
story matters and that every kid really
belongs here, and then we translate

00:48:31.850 –> 00:48:36.000
that into making our kids feel like
that, I think that’s the sweet spot.

00:48:36.582 –> 00:48:40.930
And so we’ve gotten a lot of really
positive feedback this year around

00:48:40.930 –> 00:48:44.697
the message of that video and how
inspiring it was for teachers, uh,

00:48:44.698 –> 00:48:48.364
and staff and, and everybody who’s
a part of our educational system.

00:48:48.366 –> 00:48:52.581
Everyone is an educator here, so everyone
is sort of a part of that big thing.

00:48:52.904 –> 00:48:57.319
Um, and, and just this idea of getting
together to celebrate with a video

00:48:57.320 –> 00:49:02.028
that just had such a wonderful message,
uh, I think was really the sweet spot

00:49:02.032 –> 00:49:03.694
for us to kick off our school year

00:49:04.995 –> 00:49:10.129
Well, Dr. Wallace, I just wanna thank
you for sharing, um, so much with our

00:49:10.130 –> 00:49:15.080
listeners today, and I want to personally
just acknowledge, um, the impact of

00:49:15.080 –> 00:49:19.151
the work that you’re doing in Worcester
County and that you’ve done already

00:49:19.151 –> 00:49:21.592
there, and obviously there’s more to come.

00:49:22.052 –> 00:49:27.051
Um, and for our listeners, uh, we
would love for you to like, share,

00:49:27.078 –> 00:49:28.607
comment, and continuing follow…

00:49:28.881 –> 00:49:31.878
continue following us, uh, at
the Better Learning Podcast.

00:49:32.526 –> 00:49:33.947
Until next time, thank you

00:49:34.838 –> 00:49:35.630
Thanks, Katie