Read Transcript:

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Carla Cummins: here we are.

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Welcome to the Better Learning Podcast, where curious minds collide with bold ideas and fresh perspectives.

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So ultimately it’s about what makes school better for every learner.

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So I’m your host.

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I’m joined today by Jessica, RLSI in Massachusetts.

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Um, and then Courtney, a good friend of mine from, oh my gosh, I always wanna say Buffalo Courtney, but

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Courtney Ter-Velde: It’s Rochester.

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We’re close.

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We’re all, we’re an hour.

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Carla Cummins: right?

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Jessica: Mm-hmm.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Yeah,

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Carla Cummins: I’ll get it right one of these

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Courtney Ter-Velde: It’s all Western New York, so

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Carla Cummins: so rat chacha.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: rat chacha.

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Yes.

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Carla Cummins: I got you.

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I got you.

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I obviously know all about you.

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I think Jessica knows a little bit about you, but tell me all things Courtney.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Sure.

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Um, so my full name, Courtney Trivedi.

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I am a well certified, uh, interior designer in the state of New York, as you mentioned, I, I live and work in Rochester.

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Although I, um, am from Los Angeles, that’s where I was raised and moved to Rochester in 2008 with my now lovely husband.

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but I am through my journey and being a.

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A senior interior designer and an interior designer.

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I have actually since migrated over to project management.

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Um, so I am kind of going into my second year as a project manager.

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I work at Label Bella Associates.

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We are a mid-sized full service ae firm based in Rochester, but we have offices all throughout New York, all throughout the East coast and down into the south.

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We also have offices in Madrid, um, and in Scotland.

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So.

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Carla Cummins: Stop it, so I see it.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: pretty neat.

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Yeah, I know.

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I was like, really need to brush up on my Spanish.

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Um, you know.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Exactly.

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Take a little work trip.

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Yeah.

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And then I’ve, I’ve been, um, involved in a four LE, so Association for Learning Environments for about six years now.

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Um, former or past president for New York Chapter.

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I am incoming president for the northeast, uh, regional board and currently acting as secretary for the North or for the New York chapter as well.

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and I serve on another board for a local school district on their student foundation.

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Committee where we raise money throughout the year and then we give students scholarships.

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So I help put together the gala with the board members and, um, review applications and all sorts of stuff like that.

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So, um, pretty involved.

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Um, but it’s really where my passion lies so it doesn’t feel like work.

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Carla Cummins: Yeah, I was gonna say they really know.

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How to get you

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Yeah.

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Yes.

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I am a, I am love a committee, so I’m usually yes to that.

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Carla Cummins: I guess I wouldn’t have thought it, so it’s only been six years.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Six years, but you know,

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Carla Cummins: I would’ve thought it was much

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Courtney Ter-Velde: in six years.

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Carla Cummins: Yeah.

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So, you know, I, I think back to, I could tell you the exact time where, even before working for a, that.

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My job.

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Suddenly the focus became on schools and education and design and planning and all of that.

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And I think that we all, once you get settled into work like we do, we have that defining moment.

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So do you remember how you first got involved in schools?

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Courtney Ter-Velde: I do.

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So I think much like a lot of people, my journey wasn’t linear.

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Um, I actually was living in Chicago for a couple of years.

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We moved there so my husband could finish, um, his educational journey.

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and I was working for a small firm and they had a market sector where they sort of specialized in K 12, um, design, which I had not done a lot of actually my journey.

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My career started doing retail design.

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I worked for a tea company for two years, helping them design and build out nine stores, including a kiosk, um, which was a very, very fast-paced, exciting experience, um, kind of fresh out of school.

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I went to school later to do interior design, so my first foray outside of high school actually was a musical theater.

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Performer and I did some touring company.

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I was a sociology major, and then when I moved to Rochester, I went back to school to get my degree in interior design.

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So I bring that up because I think with my background in sociology.

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With my background in performing in arts, I really felt like I wanted to have a greater connection with people.

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And while the retail design was exciting because I got to do some unique things in terms of aesthetics, I didn’t really feel like I was, how do I wanna say this?

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I, I don’t feel like I was giving back in the way that really felt.

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Important.

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I wasn’t making an impact in the way that for who I am was necessary.

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So when I started working for this firm in Chicago and they, they had the opportunity for me to be working on educational spaces, I kind of said, yes, let, let’s try that.

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And I really fell in love with it right away.

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That would’ve been.

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Gosh, like 2015.

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So I’ve spent the better part of 11 years of my 14 ish years in this career doing educational design, and I have zero interest in doing much else.

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I’ve really kind of gone, you know, taken a full dive into it.

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I mean, it’s so rewarding.

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Jessica: Mm-hmm.

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Carla Cummins: Well, I think there is always that, I mean, obviously we, we roped Jessica into this job, but she can.

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Jessica: I was gonna say, I was like, I come from that, from that passion.

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Absolutely.

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And, and education and.

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I love hearing designers who go into Ed the K 12 space after, because it is such a heartfelt, like, it’s such a personal, like human being type of thing to be in schools.

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Um, and I love diving into label associates and, you know, there was one line that I, I do wanna pull out ’cause it was beautiful and it saw it, it said design can reinforce existing behaviors or spark new ones.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Mm-hmm.

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Jessica: I loved that it came right from your website and it like, completely aligned to, like Carla said, you know, she kind of
recruited me here because I am an educator and I love when we think about not only design, but schools with students in mind, right?

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And so we have a radically student centered, you know, uh, approach.

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So I would love in your words, you know, what does it mean to be radically student centered, uh, to you.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Sure.

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Um, so, I’ve mentioned this before, but it, it always rings true, is you have to really focus on the students and you have to make design about the impact of the student.

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And designing for educational spaces does not just mean.

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Increasing educational adequacy or changing educational outcomes.

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When we’re looking at designing for students, we have to recognize that these spaces, schools can contribute so much to these students’ lives.

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It is a space where they can find safety.

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It’s a space where they can develop who they are, get a sense of self.

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They might learn trust in a space like this.

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Um.

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Collaboration connection.

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So the educational aspect is certainly important.

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Um, you know, it is, it is the goal from, for administrators, I think.

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But really if you, if you take a big step back and you widen your aperture on that, that a school can be so much more.

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And so taking into consideration those types of spaces.

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Certainly the student demographic, the age ranges, you know, digging into the community needs, like we really have to drill down each of these spaces, each of these schools, each of these districts, communities have very unique needs and goals.

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So it is definitely not a one size fits all.

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Um, and I, I just think there are spaces that can, just transform students at a really cellular level.

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Carla Cummins: Well, when you think about it too, our kids are in school.

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more waking hours than you’re with your parent or in your home.

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Right.

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And so there are, I always look at the school and I just had this conversation with my, um.

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With my daughter’s principal is, is this, this is, who’s this?

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You guys are defining, you guys are defining what she’s doing, how she’s engaged, and too, not just that, but how she can count on you guys as educators and adults who are there to support her.

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Right?

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And I think that that goes.

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You know, teachers in education, but I think it also goes towards space and there’s this comfortability of it.

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And if it’s a place where you want to be and you have that sense of belonging, it’s completely different, than a place that you go and you’re just like, gosh, I, my school’s cold, you know, I don’t wanna be there.

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I’m freezing all day.

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Or there, that’s way smarter words than me.

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But yeah, it was institutional.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Well, and I don’t wanna discount, you know, we, we certainly radically student centered as it should be, but I don’t wanna discount the need
to also consider those educators because they are also spending all of their time there and they have amazingly, generously, graciously gifted their brains.

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Their spirits, their bodies to educating students, their time, all of it.

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And so, you know, creating these spaces that support them in order to allow them to do these many tasks that we expect of them there, there is so much that is
being asked of educators, particularly today, um, that we have to create spaces that support them so that they can really focus on the, the job and the role.

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Jessica: Absolutely.

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And we think of teaching and learning as so important.

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It’s, it’s quite literally the job Right.

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Of an LSI in that teaching and learning space.

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And I’m curious, was there a tie maybe or uh, an experience or a project where you brought in teachers to that design process, um, and you know, you were able to kind of include them and can you talk us through that experience?

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Sure, sure.

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So I think most projects, which I’m, I’m glad to be able to say that most projects we, really do our best.

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And we have some amazing clients who also recognize the value of including educators, administrators, community students.

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So depending on.

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You know, the, what the project is looking to achieve, you know, may determine the stakeholders that we have.

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it’s not a project that’s been completed.

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And it’s funny, I was on the podcast last year and I talked about a playground and I’m doing another playground.

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I mean, who knew that an interior designer, like, know, as a, as a background would be so amped up about designing playgrounds, exterior

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Jessica: That’s so fun.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: them.

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It’s great.

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So, um, I am working with, uh.

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A district here who has very unique student population, so high level emotional social.

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Physical and mental challenges.

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And so it is critical for us to be working with not only teachers, but the behavioral specialists, the OTPT, because the playground is used for therapeutic reasons as well as play and play can be therapeutic.

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But, um, I think again, just really getting feedback from them on the types of modalities, the types of, um, you know, apparatus that they’re going to need.

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But then.

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Talking with them also about what are the challenges that they may face in working with a student population like this, and how is space that you know, maybe seems simple a playground could support them and reinforce.

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Whatever it is that they’re looking to achieve.

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So maybe it’s a, a space within the playground where they can bring a student who has difficulty self-regulating, and now this is a space where they can support the student in doing that.

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And then that benefits them because they are, you know, able to attend to the student in a way that they currently can’t.

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communication is everything and researching and drilling down and asking the questions.

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Not being afraid, I think to drill deeper.

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And, and it’s not to say asking controversial questions, but it, it’s to say beyond surface level questions, right?

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And, and in order to do that, and I think we all know this, you have to build trust with your clients, with the end users.

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And that takes time.

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So dedicating that time upfront, helping them understand that their feedback is.

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Is invaluable to us.

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Being able to execute their vision is huge.

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Carla Cummins: Well, yeah, and I think oftentimes it’s, you know, having a leader that’s gonna allow you to ask those questions, and not necessarily controversial, but ultimately questions that are going to be like,

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Probing.

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Jessica: Yeah, and, and,

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and detail oriented, right?

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Like I sat in the conversation once and, you know, I was watching one of our other, other LSIs and it took like about five minutes for us to question of like, but like furniture aside.

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Design aside, what do you want it to look like, feel like?

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What do you want your students to physically be doing with each other?

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And it’s not a, you know, battle or anything, it’s just that that’s not what a lot of educators have.

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the ability to be able to just take that out of it.

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Like they, they don’t have time to sit there and reflect and it’s hard sometimes to really get to the bottom of that.

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Right.

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And then how do you translate?

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Those goals, those priorities into those physical spaces now.

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Right.

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Um, and how you, that listening and communication are, are absolutely key when trying to do that and trying to translate those goals.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Yeah, and I, I think a lot of it is about empowerment.

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Right.

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So we wanna do that with students.

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We wanna do that with, with anyone who’s using the space, educators included, who’s empowering them to feel that their voice is valuable, that their opinions are important,
and that, you know, expressing those kinds of things to, to people like us, where we can take that information and actually do something with it, it’s just so important.

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Carla Cummins: Well, I just, we, I went.

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And did an interview for a project yesterday and I, and I told them, ’cause I’m like, what’s the biggest concern?

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And they’re like, storage.

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And I’m like, I hate storage.

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I hate that.

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I hate that conversation.

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And I’m like, but there’s something comfortable and uncomfortable, right?

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Like if you are, if you can get them to the point to where you’re asking them questions, that takes them out of their comfort zone and they’re truly able to share with you all of the things that have been because.

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Every job has weight, right?

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Like, and that weight weighs you down and it’s, it’s answering what is going to make this more comfortable for you, like outside of your storage.

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Courtney Ter-Velde: Right?

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Yeah.

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Carla Cummins: And, and uncomfortable questions are sometimes the pivotal ones that get you to the point to where you’re just like, okay, so let’s unapologetically say like what
we need to say because this is your one time that you are sitting in front of, you know, this team or a team that you have the capability of making a lasting impact for, I mean.

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Jessica: Yeah.

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Carla Cummins: Generations, right?

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Like you’re making decisions that are not like a me and an I conversation.

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This is a us, them a we, and that goes into the future.

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So it’s, it’s a hard one.

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So you’ve 11 years or 14 years in design, 11 years in education.

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Can you think of, or what, what do you think the biggest changes within like.

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From your 11 years,

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Courtney Ter-Velde: you know, I think some are incremental.

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Certainly some are are major, you know, uh, we can’t.

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Have this conversation without talking about technology.

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So advances in technology and how that’s being harnessed in the classroom.

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There are pros and cons.

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actually just read an article on and then just watched a news report on, again, it’s kind of Nordic country.

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I think I had mentioned this actually in a previous podcast, but slightly different.

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They are actually going back to, um, paper and pen.

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They are teaching and having students learn with paper and pen.

00:16:27.839 –> 00:16:33.179
And it’s not to say that they’re getting rid of technology in the classroom entirely, but they are moving away from digital learning.

00:16:33.959 –> 00:16:37.859
Um, and part of that is because there’s a lot of research that suggests that.

00:16:38.429 –> 00:16:44.879
Synthesization really happens at a greater rate with pen and paper than it does with digital learning.

00:16:45.209 –> 00:17:06.329
So how can we couple these wonderful advancements in technology and the things that it has allowed for teachers and students to do within
spaces, and then also respect, you know, some of those very kind of formal and basic teaching tools and methods that we know really work.

00:17:06.598 –> 00:17:17.638
so I think, you know, integration where we have even just those, you know, a smart screen, um, you know, and that’s not groundbreaking, but where is it being placed?

00:17:17.638 –> 00:17:18.658
How is it being used?

00:17:18.658 –> 00:17:20.188
Do students have access to it?

00:17:20.488 –> 00:17:25.408
You know, we moving those things out of the classroom where the teacher is the owner and moving them into common spaces.

00:17:25.978 –> 00:17:31.138
Where students can start to collaborate and, you know, meet together and present.

00:17:31.284 –> 00:17:40.090
are we moving them into, you know, large group instruction rooms that are less about that forward facing, sort of old, traditional.

00:17:40.456 –> 00:17:53.056
Like hall, you know, where you’ve got rows of seats and the teacher is at the front and, and reevaluating that and having, you know, technology and writeable surfaces on all of the walls and mobile and flexible furniture.

00:17:53.056 –> 00:18:02.446
So now you have not a space that does one thing, but you have a space that does a dozen things and it can serve students, teachers, community.

00:18:02.746 –> 00:18:06.016
Um, so that I think has been a, a really nice advancement.

00:18:06.299 –> 00:18:12.419
adding the technology and then I think also recognizing that students learn differently.

00:18:13.199 –> 00:18:25.979
So 10 years ago, you know, sort of more traditional methods that the sells and bells the forward facing and providing students with opportunities to learn and meet them where they are.

00:18:26.579 –> 00:18:28.019
Is it individual study?

00:18:28.019 –> 00:18:29.159
Is it group study?

00:18:29.189 –> 00:18:30.119
Is it collaborative?

00:18:30.119 –> 00:18:31.439
Is it project based?

00:18:31.529 –> 00:18:33.929
Are we doing cross curriculum?

00:18:34.664 –> 00:18:47.414
Development where you’re learning one set of skills in one classroom and another set of skills in, in another classroom, and you’re putting them together and you’re, you know, all of a sudden, uh, the comprehension rate, you know, doubles.

00:18:47.474 –> 00:18:54.704
Um, so I, I, I think a lot of it is that, and, and I applaud again, the educators because they’re putting together the, the curriculum.

00:18:55.034 –> 00:19:01.424
We are just looking to best support and reinforce that curriculum with the design in the spaces.

00:19:02.054 –> 00:19:07.757
I’d say those are two pretty major improvements, that I’m seeing that, that are effective.

00:19:12.936 –> 00:19:17.676
You know, when we work with schools at K12 it’s not just about furniture design, it’s about impact.

00:19:17.916 –> 00:19:22.056
Our radically student-centered approach puts students at the center of every decision.

00:19:22.416 –> 00:19:28.686
From that first conversation to the final walkthrough, we’re focused on creating spaces that actually work for the kids.

00:19:29.106 –> 00:19:30.456
Teachers and the community.

00:19:30.756 –> 00:19:36.036
So if you’re looking to do more than just check a box on your next project, let’s talk Visit k12.com.

00:19:36.036 –> 00:19:44.766
That’s K-A-Y-T-W-E-L-V-E.com and see how we’re helping schools transform learning one student at a time.

00:19:45.096 –> 00:19:49.176
Because at K12 it’s not just about projects and furniture, it’s about purpose.

00:19:54.399 –> 00:19:56.529
Carla Cummins: What was your first reaction when you read that article about.

00:19:57.097 –> 00:19:58.477
Courtney Ter-Velde: I actually was like, yes.

00:19:58.837 –> 00:20:02.647
And I say yes because I am an avid, I’m an avid reader.

00:20:02.647 –> 00:20:03.277
I read,

00:20:03.577 –> 00:20:05.182
Carla Cummins: I, this is where I was going.

00:20:05.257 –> 00:20:06.247
Courtney Ter-Velde: okay, yes,

00:20:06.262 –> 00:20:07.192
Carla Cummins: was gonna go with it.

00:20:07.192 –> 00:20:08.242
I wanna know,

00:20:08.437 –> 00:20:08.647
Courtney Ter-Velde: I

00:20:08.722 –> 00:20:09.712
Carla Cummins: you gonna answer the question?

00:20:09.717 –> 00:20:09.937
I wanna know?

00:20:10.417 –> 00:20:13.627
Courtney Ter-Velde: So if I have to, I’ll read on my iPad.

00:20:13.777 –> 00:20:15.607
If I have to, I’ll read on a Kindle.

00:20:15.727 –> 00:20:19.267
And a lot of that time that comes down to travel because I wanna bring all of the books.

00:20:19.627 –> 00:20:23.407
But I love nothing more than cracking a spine and a physical book.

00:20:23.407 –> 00:20:30.672
I love nothing more than going in to a bookstore new or used, feeling the paper, smelling the paper, the print.

00:20:31.897 –> 00:20:33.877
I’m a dog ear page.

00:20:33.877 –> 00:20:36.397
I know some people think, oh, don’t do that, but I do.

00:20:36.697 –> 00:20:39.097
Um, I write in the margins.

00:20:39.157 –> 00:20:39.427
What?

00:20:40.042 –> 00:20:41.152
Jessica: that was my reaction.

00:20:41.707 –> 00:20:43.597
Carla Cummins: this is where I went when I was listening to that.

00:20:43.597 –> 00:20:49.297
I’m like, I know Courtney has this love for books like I do, because I haven’t shared my numbers.

00:20:49.297 –> 00:20:50.917
But last year, a little disappointed.

00:20:50.917 –> 00:20:51.997
112 books,

00:20:52.102 –> 00:20:53.392
Courtney Ter-Velde: That’s, that is amazing.

00:20:53.392 –> 00:20:54.862
I did not even reach that.

00:20:54.862 –> 00:20:58.852
I’d say I average between 30 and 45, and that feels great.

00:20:59.167 –> 00:21:04.117
Carla Cummins: Yeah, well that’s combination of Kendall and um, audible,

00:21:04.372 –> 00:21:09.472
Courtney Ter-Velde: Oh, but that’s, but you’re still learning and you’re educating yourself and you’re spending your time wisely.

00:21:10.087 –> 00:21:11.317
Carla Cummins: I want a hard book.

00:21:11.422 –> 00:21:11.632
Courtney Ter-Velde: Yeah.

00:21:12.097 –> 00:21:12.457
Jessica: Yeah.

00:21:12.622 –> 00:21:13.522
Carla Cummins: I love my Kindle.

00:21:13.522 –> 00:21:15.922
It’s probably the best gift that my kids have given me.

00:21:16.402 –> 00:21:21.442
But even going back to, I would rather write, sit down and write a note than to type a note.

00:21:21.660 –> 00:21:23.280
and I, and I think that we’re all just different.

00:21:23.280 –> 00:21:34.860
So I, I was just curious what your reaction, what your first thought was when you read the article, and, and I do think sometimes there’s something that goes back to having something in your hand.

00:21:35.745 –> 00:21:40.845
Putting it on paper, the memorization aspect to it, versus typing it like all of the different things.

00:21:40.845 –> 00:21:44.265
And, and for me, I just, you know, it’s just different, but.

00:21:44.640 –> 00:21:51.090
Courtney Ter-Velde: And, and like you said, I mean, there are people who learn really well digitally, um, and certainly digital natives, that’s all they know.

00:21:51.120 –> 00:21:59.520
But, you know, I think it’s important to always consider what the re, where the research is guiding us and to not discount it.

00:21:59.850 –> 00:22:09.720
And I don’t think it’s, it’s to say that we are eliminating digital learning and we’re getting rid of screens and students aren’t gonna have, I mean, that’s not realistic, but is it.

00:22:10.245 –> 00:22:11.145
Is there value?

00:22:11.145 –> 00:22:23.925
And I think certainly there is, and in learning how to do things in multiple ways and pen and paper is just one way of learning and one way of, of synthesizing information.

00:22:24.627 –> 00:22:26.792
Jessica: Yes, because there’s moments in our lives, right?

00:22:26.792 –> 00:22:29.312
When technology doesn’t work, it’s the most frustrating thing.

00:22:29.312 –> 00:22:34.262
And I have the ability to write a note like Carla said, and, and get to where I need to be.

00:22:34.262 –> 00:22:40.772
Or like, you know, read a, a map or read like the signs to like be able to travel and navigate a little bit.

00:22:40.772 –> 00:22:41.612
Carla Cummins: really read a map?

00:22:41.792 –> 00:22:42.992
Jessica: I can read a map pretty good.

00:22:42.992 –> 00:22:43.382
Okay.

00:22:43.382 –> 00:22:52.922
I’m not as young as I think as you think I am, but, um, but you know what I love, I love about that is the balance because there is also like as at like.

00:22:53.207 –> 00:22:56.567
There are certain, um, like new information, a lot.

00:22:56.567 –> 00:23:08.292
Being in this new industry, I’m constantly like, what’s, uh, you know, what’s a, a video that I can watch quick because it’s brand new information where like if I have to reflect on something or if I’m reading a book that’s like totally just like personal.

00:23:09.272 –> 00:23:10.712
That’s gonna be a hardcover book.

00:23:10.712 –> 00:23:14.492
It has to be something that I can physically like, pause and sit down with.

00:23:14.792 –> 00:23:25.352
And I love that with students too, in that, you know, there’s gonna be times, there’s gonna be certain subjects that you do want the teaching and learning to be in a certain either platform or a certain type of media.

00:23:25.562 –> 00:23:35.432
But like you said, not to limit it because as a person who is very, you know, pen and paper, there are still moments that I know I need a visual with this or I’m not gonna understand it.

00:23:35.867 –> 00:23:37.037
Courtney Ter-Velde: Yes, absolutely

00:23:37.172 –> 00:23:37.382
Jessica: Yeah.

00:23:37.502 –> 00:23:38.642
Carla Cummins: I always need a visual.

00:23:39.857 –> 00:23:40.157
Courtney Ter-Velde: right.

00:23:40.157 –> 00:23:44.387
And so, but I think that that’s, it’s you, you know that, and you know that that’s how you learn.

00:23:44.567 –> 00:23:48.562
Some people are auditory learners, some people need to have it physically written down.

00:23:48.827 –> 00:23:56.844
So, you know, when we talk about students and different learning, techniques or, or ways that students learn if we are not.

00:23:58.014 –> 00:24:04.457
Supporting and designing spaces that can, allow for that and that flexibility.

00:24:04.937 –> 00:24:07.392
What percentage of students are we leaving out?

00:24:08.132 –> 00:24:08.882
Jessica: Absolutely.

00:24:09.452 –> 00:24:10.112
Absolutely.

00:24:10.127 –> 00:24:13.247
Carla Cummins: Even if we do design for that, what percentage of students are we leaving out?

00:24:13.667 –> 00:24:16.217
I have an old presentation, Courtney, I’ll have to send it to you.

00:24:16.217 –> 00:24:36.137
But it talks about, um, the number of students that, um, educators actually touch, and I forget who did the study, but the number was so low that ultimately it’s like 25 per and i, I it’s around 25% of the student population is who really benefits.

00:24:37.067 –> 00:24:39.017
Wholly from education.

00:24:39.017 –> 00:24:41.237
So then what happens to that other 75%?

00:24:41.687 –> 00:24:44.897
I was definitely, obviously we all know me well enough by now.

00:24:44.927 –> 00:24:47.177
I was part of that 75%.

00:24:47.237 –> 00:25:01.247
Uh, but it’s, it’s just one of those things, it’s like how do you, how do you address the more learners and it in a way, and then how do you do that through what we do on a day-to-day basis?

00:25:01.262 –> 00:25:01.562
Courtney Ter-Velde: Yeah.

00:25:02.102 –> 00:25:04.832
Carla Cummins: In theory, we’re all just one piece, right?

00:25:04.832 –> 00:25:14.905
So on our side where furniture is, it’s just one piece of a huge puzzle that, the more we put it together and we’re just like these, all of this matters.

00:25:14.905 –> 00:25:18.265
You know, every voice does and every bit of experience does.

00:25:18.865 –> 00:25:22.585
And I don’t know that it’s gonna, we’re getting there, but it’s

00:25:22.795 –> 00:25:23.365
Courtney Ter-Velde: we are.

00:25:23.365 –> 00:25:25.585
And people like us, right?

00:25:25.795 –> 00:25:28.795
Companies like yours, certainly companies like mine as well.

00:25:29.530 –> 00:25:35.260
We, yes, we might be a small part, but all of us are so passionate about it and we’re committed to it.

00:25:35.260 –> 00:25:37.330
And I’ll take that 25%.

00:25:37.900 –> 00:25:53.350
I mean, really at the end of the day, you know, you had asked early on, you know, how I got into this and so much a part of it was really feeling the need to connect and, and make a difference, even if it’s minor.

00:25:53.633 –> 00:25:55.223
you know, that’s so fulfilling.

00:25:55.868 –> 00:26:13.568
And to be a part of that and to, to hear and to see the changes, to hear from the educators or hear from the students six months or two
years later, you know, what it has allowed for them to do or how it has changed the way students are learning or the way they’re teaching.

00:26:14.108 –> 00:26:16.478
I, I wouldn’t give that up for anything.

00:26:17.313 –> 00:26:17.708
Carla Cummins: Yeah, I agree.

00:26:18.642 –> 00:26:29.052
we have, we always have tons of questions that we can ask in tons of different directions that we can go, but just, I have all these curiosity questions I always have that aren’t necessarily listed.

00:26:29.112 –> 00:26:36.762
Do you have like an all time favorite project or it could be a component of Right.

00:26:37.730 –> 00:26:38.330
Courtney Ter-Velde: I do.

00:26:38.330 –> 00:26:39.320
It’s, it would be like.

00:26:40.325 –> 00:26:42.215
Saying, who’s your favorite child?

00:26:42.305 –> 00:26:42.845
Right.

00:26:43.145 –> 00:26:45.875
Um, she’s like, I already know.

00:26:46.235 –> 00:26:47.615
Um, you have the answer.

00:26:47.645 –> 00:26:47.885
Yeah.

00:26:50.375 –> 00:26:54.215
Um, I certainly, there are some that are holistic projects.

00:26:54.245 –> 00:27:03.125
You know, one I had mentioned in a previous interview was, was a, a playground that we completed last year for a rural district and um, that was incredible.

00:27:03.125 –> 00:27:05.435
They hadn’t had a new playground in 30 years.

00:27:06.560 –> 00:27:11.990
Community members were leaving the area because the playground wasn’t providing them with, with what?

00:27:12.560 –> 00:27:13.250
They needed.

00:27:13.340 –> 00:27:17.780
And this replacement playground has just changed everything for them.

00:27:17.780 –> 00:27:21.650
And now they’ve got neighboring communities coming to them.

00:27:21.650 –> 00:27:33.530
Um, my husband actually worked with someone who was born and raised there, and she, she’s like, it’s all anybody talks about, you know, so that, you know, and that was, that was completed last summer.

00:27:33.530 –> 00:27:35.060
So that still feels really good.

00:27:35.390 –> 00:27:40.125
Um, I work with a lot of smaller rural communities, um, and districts and I would say.

00:27:41.165 –> 00:27:51.365
While it’s certainly wonderful when you have big, chunky budgets and you’ve got, you know, lots of schools at a really large district that you can touch.

00:27:51.725 –> 00:27:59.585
You know, the opportunity to do projects like that at that scale is, is exciting and it’s thrilling for me.

00:27:59.585 –> 00:28:05.615
And again, I think it just comes down to sort of where my own goals are.

00:28:07.010 –> 00:28:08.780
Moral, ethical compass.

00:28:08.780 –> 00:28:15.290
And what, what drives me and fuels me as a person is, is the impact that I see.

00:28:15.290 –> 00:28:24.294
When we are able to work with these smaller rural districts, um, oftentimes I think they feel, less important or, their, their voice isn’t being heard.

00:28:24.294 –> 00:28:27.024
You know, they don’t have the big budgets and they, they.

00:28:27.564 –> 00:28:37.914
Have maybe in the past experienced with other, um, design firms that they are, you know, that as a client they’re not as important because their budget isn’t as big.

00:28:37.914 –> 00:28:39.924
And I really don’t approach it that way.

00:28:39.924 –> 00:28:43.014
I mean, every project deserves the same level of attention.

00:28:43.014 –> 00:28:44.574
It doesn’t matter what the budget is.

00:28:44.767 –> 00:28:51.757
and because these districts are really so integral to their community.

00:28:52.612 –> 00:29:03.352
What we do there makes a bigger impact across the community versus a very, very large district where you might have, you know, 40 mile radius or something like that.

00:29:03.352 –> 00:29:13.912
You know, 25 buildings and you know, the superintendent doesn’t know Jimmy Johnson in second grade and his brother, you know, Larry Johnson in 10th grade.

00:29:13.912 –> 00:29:20.182
Whereas, you know, in these smaller districts sometimes, sometimes these superintendents, they know that kid from kindergarten.

00:29:20.827 –> 00:29:22.447
All the way through graduation.

00:29:22.807 –> 00:29:34.472
Oftentimes the teachers are graduates of the school themselves, so having the history, having the connection, those really are the projects for me that I feel are the most impactful.

00:29:34.592 –> 00:29:38.312
They’re not always the most glamorous, but I really feel like they’re the most impactful.

00:29:38.912 –> 00:29:42.452
Carla Cummins: We talk about how many times have you heard, uh, me and Adam say that Jessica.

00:29:42.887 –> 00:29:45.887
Jessica: So many, I mean like a million times.

00:29:45.887 –> 00:29:48.587
That’s why I mean, I was encouraged by Carla and Adam.

00:29:48.587 –> 00:29:51.137
I’m working with the school who’s building their first cafeteria.

00:29:52.442 –> 00:29:54.362
And if the district is one building,

00:29:54.692 –> 00:29:57.572
it’s a K to 12, they went home, they went home for lunch.

00:29:57.572 –> 00:30:03.902
If they didn’t wanna bring it in, the district is so small that they actually can just walk, you know, the two blocks to where it was.

00:30:03.902 –> 00:30:10.382
And I remember I showed up for lunch and I, I went to their like local diner that also was a pastry store.

00:30:10.382 –> 00:30:14.822
And I got a bunch of pastries for the district and I sat down and it was, you know, we were a carpeted.

00:30:15.497 –> 00:30:26.297
A carpeted old building that, you know, we were in this little makeshift kind of room and it was just this, that type of project is not only rewarding, but secretly as a type A.

00:30:26.507 –> 00:30:28.967
It’s also can be challenging sometimes, right?

00:30:28.967 –> 00:30:37.607
Because you don’t have that huge budget and you’re trying to balance all of these things that it’s almost like this creative challenge, um, that you and your team gets to go through.

00:30:37.607 –> 00:30:41.807
And, and I absolutely love that and I, I really appreciate you sharing that about those districts.

00:30:41.807 –> 00:30:42.087
I know that.

00:30:42.767 –> 00:30:46.187
Rochester, you know, is close to where I was in upstate in Oswego.

00:30:46.187 –> 00:31:03.677
And my first experience in education, you know, I student taught in Watertown, I student taught in all of those, like those cities that are just, you know, those, those
towns that are, that, that do feel very like closed and very like, you know, not, not, not willing to really have someone come in unless you really build that trust.

00:31:03.947 –> 00:31:09.857
Um, and I worked for an A BCD, um, program, which is an agriculture business child development program.

00:31:09.857 –> 00:31:11.027
And so the kids that we were.

00:31:11.447 –> 00:31:20.147
Um, servicing were the migrant workers who were working in the field, so they would drop them off at 5 45, then pick them up when the sun went down, and I wasn’t there all day, but.

00:31:21.017 –> 00:31:25.787
I took from that as like a 19-year-old girl just getting into education.

00:31:25.787 –> 00:31:35.567
I mean, that really brought me to wanting to be passionate around kids and wanting to stay in kids, you know, wanting to stay in schools that were smaller, that are really rewarding.

00:31:35.567 –> 00:31:49.937
And I think the area that you’re in, the reason why, you know, label Bella Associates is in so many is because you built that reputation and you built
this trust and community is so clear in your work, um, that it’s something that we really appreciate as a company who is completely built on this.

00:31:50.027 –> 00:31:51.977
Relationships, you know, that’s what we do.

00:31:52.217 –> 00:32:02.177
We do furniture, but we can’t have furniture without having that relationship, that trust, that collaboration, so that, you know, the things that I put in front of you, just like the buildings you designed are actually being utilized, right.

00:32:02.177 –> 00:32:02.777
For all kids.

00:32:02.777 –> 00:32:03.887
Mm-hmm.

00:32:04.172 –> 00:32:04.412
Courtney Ter-Velde: Yeah.

00:32:04.472 –> 00:32:05.492
And, and thank you for that.

00:32:05.492 –> 00:32:11.132
I’m very proud to be a part of this firm and I’m proud of the work that we have done and are doing.

00:32:11.132 –> 00:32:13.202
Um, so it’s, that’s nice to hear.

00:32:13.262 –> 00:32:13.652
Thank you.

00:32:13.922 –> 00:32:14.132
Yeah.

00:32:14.549 –> 00:32:17.819
Jessica: I do have a wrap up, Carla, if you want me to, because going on

00:32:17.994 –> 00:32:18.564
Carla Cummins: do a wrap up?

00:32:19.259 –> 00:32:37.859
Jessica: well, I just wanted to ask about resources because another thing that I did, not the whole wrap up, Carla, but you know, diving into the work, I know there’s
like a newsletter that you guys, you know, put out for educators and for design communities and so with your belief in, you know, the evidence-based research design.

00:32:38.384 –> 00:32:42.254
Do you have like a resource or insight that you wanna share?

00:32:42.314 –> 00:32:47.114
You know, with all of our readers, um, or all of our listeners, uh, in, in design communities.

00:32:48.674 –> 00:32:53.444
Courtney Ter-Velde: I mean, I think our best resources are are are people like you, right?

00:32:53.444 –> 00:33:00.674
Really knowing who as a designer, as a project manager, my resources are all of the manufacturers.

00:33:01.274 –> 00:33:11.484
All of the vendors, reps, all of the people who, like you said, like you, you, are on the furniture side and you can’t put furniture in unless there’s a space to put it down in.

00:33:11.484 –> 00:33:12.804
Well, we feel the same way.

00:33:12.804 –> 00:33:13.044
Right?

00:33:13.374 –> 00:33:24.954
We could design a shell, but we’re not going to be able to design a successful We project without having access to the resources and these types of relationships that we’re able to develop too.

00:33:25.258 –> 00:33:40.318
You can only know so much and it’s important for me, you know, my expertise in terms of educational design is a component of what educational design is, you know, as a, as a holistic piece.

00:33:40.588 –> 00:33:44.818
So I think I’m smart enough to know I only know what I know, right.

00:33:45.328 –> 00:33:48.688
And who to reach out to, to we don’t know what we don’t know.

00:33:48.688 –> 00:33:49.048
No.

00:33:49.048 –> 00:33:51.418
And, and to reach out to those who.

00:33:52.108 –> 00:34:03.118
Our experts in their area of design, um, and working collectively to really shape those spaces and to, you know, we talk about those support tools or, you know.

00:34:03.613 –> 00:34:07.243
Whether it’s technology, it’s furniture, it’s finishes, it’s lighting.

00:34:07.543 –> 00:34:16.933
All of those are parts and pieces of the overall design and make or break the ability for a project to be successful.

00:34:16.933 –> 00:34:30.216
So I don’t know if that’s, unique or um, a secret by, by any means, but certainly has served me well in my own career, is really connecting with and developing.

00:34:31.101 –> 00:34:38.826
Important relationships, professional, courteous relationships with, um, the other design professionals?

00:34:39.516 –> 00:34:41.076
Carla Cummins: Yeah, our biggest asset is people.

00:34:41.076 –> 00:34:41.646
I always say

00:34:41.706 –> 00:34:41.926
Courtney Ter-Velde: Yes.

00:34:42.146 –> 00:34:43.606
That’s a perfect way to say it.

00:34:43.836 –> 00:34:44.016
Jessica: That

00:34:44.106 –> 00:34:55.266
Carla Cummins: And it doesn’t make a difference on, you know, where on the totem pole you believe that someone is, at some point in time, one relationship can define the outcome of something.

00:34:55.266 –> 00:34:57.306
One phone call can make a huge difference.

00:34:57.696 –> 00:34:58.056
You know?

00:34:58.056 –> 00:35:01.236
And, and, and it’s, I just think it’s people.

00:35:01.566 –> 00:35:04.746
Courtney Ter-Velde: Yeah, I, all I was gonna say is that’s one of my favorite parts about a four.

00:35:04.746 –> 00:35:26.766
Ali, I know we mentioned it early on, but as an organization, it is built up of designers, educators, um, superintendents, facilities,
directors, manufacturers, vendors, and it is an organization where everyone involved is there for the same purpose, and that is huge.

00:35:26.766 –> 00:35:29.916
And so resource sharing is just a part.

00:35:30.411 –> 00:35:38.666
Of how the chapters communicate, the types of, tours or CEUs that could put on the conferences, all of that.

00:35:38.666 –> 00:35:40.196
It is about resource sharing.

00:35:40.196 –> 00:35:48.583
It is about learning, pushing the needle, you know, to, to get to better, you know, we, we are all working our way towards that.

00:35:48.613 –> 00:35:51.223
Um, so that’s another great resource, I think too.

00:35:51.998 –> 00:35:53.008
Carla Cummins: Yeah, for sure.

00:35:53.218 –> 00:35:55.558
And I think that’s an organization too, and.

00:35:56.173 –> 00:36:08.612
Obviously I have a different, um, perspective than most people, but as a member and as a, as a team member for some, reason, it’s very different than other organizations.

00:36:08.680 –> 00:36:23.540
It breaks down the competitor barriers and in so many instances where, you know, you might walk out of a project interview and see your biggest competition like sitting there waiting to go in next, but in two weeks you’re gonna be sitting at.

00:36:24.775 –> 00:36:29.305
A social function or, or something, and you’re gonna be sharing with that person.

00:36:29.365 –> 00:36:32.005
Because at the end of the day, that’s what matters most.

00:36:32.005 –> 00:36:39.085
The competition is still there, like, don’t get me wrong, but I do think that in those environments like it, it breaks that barrier down.

00:36:39.310 –> 00:36:39.880
Courtney Ter-Velde: I agree.

00:36:39.940 –> 00:36:40.330
I agree.

00:36:40.330 –> 00:36:56.260
And, and if everyone’s goal is to create better educational spaces, then by sharing that information and having other firms be successful at doing it, all you’ve done is just promoted the fact that, that it works.

00:36:57.100 –> 00:36:59.800
And so it allows the next person to come in and do that.

00:36:59.800 –> 00:37:00.700
I mean, that’s what we want.

00:37:00.700 –> 00:37:04.180
We want others to be paving the way so that we can walk a little bit further.

00:37:04.330 –> 00:37:05.290
We do it as well.

00:37:05.470 –> 00:37:05.950
So,

00:37:06.865 –> 00:37:07.765
Carla Cummins: Hundred percent.

00:37:08.545 –> 00:37:11.815
Well, I still just adore you, Courtney,

00:37:11.890 –> 00:37:12.520
Courtney Ter-Velde: adore you too.

00:37:12.520 –> 00:37:15.490
This was such a, such a pleasure and such an honor.

00:37:15.490 –> 00:37:18.760
I am, I’m very grateful to be asked and to contribute in this way.

00:37:19.308 –> 00:37:20.218
Jessica: Absolutely.

00:37:20.248 –> 00:37:21.868
Thank you so much for your time.

00:37:21.958 –> 00:37:23.998
Thank you for your expertise and insights today.

00:37:23.998 –> 00:37:25.828
It was a pleasure learning with you, Courtney.

00:37:26.248 –> 00:37:34.109
Um, if listeners would like to hear or share their own radically student centered moments, we invite you to like, comment and share @betterlearningpodcast.com.