Read Transcript:

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Jeff Kubiak: Hello everyone and welcome to the Better Learning Podcast.

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I’m Jeff Kubiak, along with Carla Cummins, and today we have the amazing leader from the Desert Sands Unified School District all the way in beautiful, sunny LaQuinta, California, and that’s Dr. Kelly May of Volmer.

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Volmer or Dr. May Volmer.

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Thank you so much for being with us.

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And welcome.

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Thank you.

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Jeff Kubiak: So Dr. Volmer is the superintendent of this amazing school district in sunny Southern California.

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And, before we get into too much.

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at K 12, we really like to talk about what is radically student centered, so you don’t have to answer that at the moment, but we want
to, before we let you go today, we wanna get your idea of what radically student centered means to you, your work, and your purpose.

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Sound good?

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Sounds great.

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Jeff Kubiak: Er, what’s a belief about education that you’ve had to unlearn?

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Wow.

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A belief about education that I’ve had to unlearn.

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That is really a fantastic question.

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Um, you know, I think one of the things we work on a lot in our district is that education is not for or about the adults in the organization, uh, that it’s really about the kids, right?

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And so that’s, that’s something that I think a lot of us really need to unlearn, right?

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We tend to design things for either what we did or what we would want.

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Uh, we really need to be designing them for students and what they need and what they want.

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Jeff Kubiak: That,

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Carla Cummins: love that.

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah.

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Yeah,

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Jeff Kubiak: Um,

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Carla Cummins: um, Jeff, I’m sorry.

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I’m gonna, I’m totally gonna interrupt you because I just.

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Am sitting here thinking, I think there’s no matter what path you take when it comes to serving the educational community, there comes a time where there’s this light bulb moment, right?

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That’s like, golly, this is what I’m supposed to be doing.

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Uh, and I know, like I could tell you mine, uh, and I, I didn’t choose it.

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Someone chose it for me and then it was just like, this is, this is where I should be.

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And they were Right.

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Right.

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So what led you to where you are?

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It doesn’t have to be long.

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It doesn’t have to be anything, but I’m always curious because I think your role is one of the hardest.

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And I don’t know that people recognize that.

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Um, so just outta curiosity.

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: kind of a twofold answer, right?

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Because one’s the superintendent job and one’s just education in general.

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So really interesting.

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I started off as a volunteer art teacher in my daughter’s first grade classroom, and then pretty sure pretty soon I was doing it for the whole first grade.

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I thought, what am I doing?

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I should just be a teacher.

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Right?

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And I love it, but I have a sticker on my, I have a name plaque right on my desk, like a lot of people do.

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And I have a sticker that says, because I get to, and I really feel that way about the job, but it wasn’t until.

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You know, the first year you feel like you’re kind of drinking from a fire hydrant as a brand new superintendent.

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Um, and then it gets a little bit easier, but there’s a lot of hard things that we deal with.

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Um, and so it was probably about the middle of, or beginning of year two, uh, where I thought I just.

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I’m so excited I ask someone to hire me for this job, so I don’t ever wanna lose that sense of I get to do this work and it’s, it really is a privilege and an honor.

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And, and so I have that sticker on my desk and I, I keep it there to try and keep me grounded in that thought.

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Carla Cummins: Yeah.

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Well, thank you for answering that.

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It’s not, and not to like derail your, um, thought process, Jeff, but I always just wonder because I think that it’s deep, it’s meaningful work, right?

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And it’s, it’s not always rewarding.

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I feel like it’s sort, sort of like parenthood, right?

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where it’s just not there.

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So just outta curiosity, as you quickly went into that question.

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Jeff Kubiak: no, I think that’s great.

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Uh, you know, I, I taught and was, uh, an assistant principal and a principal for over 24 years.

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My mom taught for 40 years, and there’s a lot of things that shape us as educators, right.

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so your leadership.

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what would maybe the or one or two core beliefs about children really drive your decisions?

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: so one of the things that, that is key, and I think it’ll probably come up over and over again as we talk, I would imagine it usually does, uh, I mentioned earlier that, that we need to be building things for kids.

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I deeply, deeply believe, uh, that children have to have a voice in this process.

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Uh, and so we build a lot of things to give students voice.

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I had a. Event this morning where I was out at one of the high schools and I had the whole associated student body leadership team standing there talking to me and I just said, tell me what we can do better.

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What do you need?

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What can we do better?

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Uh, because I wanna empower students to be a part of this process, not just to know they can but actually be a part of it.

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Uh, their voice is so powerful and so that drives most of what I do.

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Jeff Kubiak: beautiful.

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the basis of the, of the work that we do at K 12, and it’s been mission driven.

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Is, is really focusing on that student empowerment and student agency, right?

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And we work

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with so many incredible schools and, and architects and designers and people like yourself that when you allow the opportunity for students to have the voice, the choice to drive change, you see the most incredible things happen.

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yes, absolutely.

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We were, I was just talking with one of my assistant superintendents a little bit earlier.

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We do a climate and culture survey every year, like a lot of schools do.

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Um, and a lot of them are canned, if you will, questions.

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Um, but we added some open-ended questions this year and we got such rich data from that because we just gave students a chance to.

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Reflect and share rather than, you know, using the Likert scale on, on something.

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Uh, it was it really, really meaningful.

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Carla Cummins: Well, and I think part of just being like the natural component of hu of being human is you want people to listen to you and you want to be able to have a voice.

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And, and it can be, it doesn’t have to be the loudest voice, but sometimes it’s.

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Just being able to just say, you know, Dr. Volmer, this is what I think is something that’s a big deal.

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Because so often it’s, what is the old saying, you, y’all are gonna think of it.

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’cause I’m a little bit brain dead, but kids are meant to be seen and not

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Oh yeah.

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Carla Cummins: And it’s just a, it’s just a such a sad thing because there’s so much that they bring to the table from their, their, from their perspective.

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Right.

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And I don’t know Carla, if you’ve heard, um, I’m trying to remember right now where I read it ’cause it’s certainly not my idea.

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Um, but this whole idea around the idea of students being seen and not heard, right?

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How we kill curiosity.

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Right.

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So by the end of first grade, second grade, we have almost wiped that out of students because we’re so oftentimes in the stand and deliver model.

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And so we’re sharing things and the light bulbs start firing and kids’ hands start going up to ask questions.

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And not right now, not right now.

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Save that question, right?

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Like we don’t just let the curiosity run, and let them be the drivers of where those conversations go.

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I think goes along so well with what you just said.

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Carla Cummins: I don’t know if it was somewhere, I did read an article about it, but, and there’s a lot coming out now too about, you know, the way to respond, what type of audience you give them, you know?

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And, and it’s a lot of what we research a lot of times, but it’s, it’s always interestings.

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Jeff Kubiak: it, you know, it’s interesting.

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So Desert Sands, very diverse district, um, has a lot of amazing work and I, you know, I know several, um, employees, they love you, they love your, your leadership.

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And so you’re also the leader of, of a bond heavy district right now,

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Oh yeah.

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Yeah.

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Jeff Kubiak: Um, it comes with a big responsibility.

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And so how does Dr. Be Volmer

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personally think about being a steward with the community, student staff, trusting that level.

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah, that’s a really great question.

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So So the whole idea of building trust, sometimes we, that seems kind of far reaching, like we know it’s important to build trust, but what really does build trust, and there is research that tells us what builds trust.

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So we know if we’re a good communicator, that that builds trust.

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We know if people feel like we care about them.

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That builds trust.

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Um, if our behavior is consistent, that builds trust.

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And if people think we’re competent.

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In the work that we’re supposed to be doing.

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Right?

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Those are huge pillars, uh, of trust building.

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And so we think about those a lot as we’re working with our community.

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And, and one of the things that I’ve really tried to do since being in this seat is constantly finding new ways to connect.

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We have 34 buildings, about 27,000 students.

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That equates to 52,000 ish parents out there, right?

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Guardians?

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I can’t possibly.

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have dinner with all those people.

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I would love to, but I can’t.

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Right.

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So I’ve gotta find ways to connect and touch them and talk to them and listen to them.

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in particular, you know, with the bond measure.

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And so we constantly are trying to do things.

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Um, we brought in a few parents, um, a little over a year ago.

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About a hundred ish parents, community members, alumni, staff members, just to talk about what are the competencies that we most want our students to have beyond the curricular learning that they get.

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Right.

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Did kind of a portrait of a graduate.

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You may have heard of that, that saying.

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Um, but we, we met for a year with these people listening to what, what was important to them, what they cared about.

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Uh, the event I went to this morning, um, it’s a Coffee with Kelly event.

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And we, we bring out the coffee, bring out some pastries.

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We invite parents to come.

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I have a co-host now for these events.

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So it’s either, if we’re at a secondary school, it’s always the a SB president.

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If we’re at an elementary school, it’s the PTO President, because those, those are the people that know people.

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So they’re connectors for me.

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They connect me.

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Um, I spent, last year I went to every single PTO meeting and every booster meeting in our district at least once, and just sat with the families and thanked them.

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For the work that they do.

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’cause there are often, there are number one volunteers, right?

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But I get a lot of information there too, on what our schools look like and how we should design them.

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And so, you know, we did just pass the $675 million bond measure, which will take us a decade out in designing schools, uh, which is fantastic.

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But even in there, we’ve changed our policies in the last couple of years.

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So when we get ready.

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To talk about what modernizations we’re gonna do at a school.

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We don’t have like three or four people sitting around the table.

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Like we bring in the, whichever school was last modernized.

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We bring in the principal and teachers and classified people.

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We bring in the same groups from the school that’s gonna be modernized.

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We have the previous school say, what went well?

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What was hard?

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What did we learn?

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So that we’re teaching these people to be great decision makers because how, how often do you modernize a school?

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Right?

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And so it’s not work that people tend to know how to do, but we want them to have a voice and so we give them what they need so they can have a voice in that process.

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Carla Cummins: Yeah, we always used to say like, you know, and I briefly told you about my, my work history, but generally speaking, in most cases, a superintendent will have the opportunity.

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And it’s a small percentage.

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I think it’s like 22% or something to build or modernize schools when they’re in a seat or within their seat.

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And you think about the 22% of superintendents who have that chance and you’re just going, what a great opportunity you have to shape something.

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For the future, but not just that, but the community.

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Right.

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And you get to, to support so many different aspects of it that, I mean, I get excited about it.

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It’s gotta be a lot of work, but I would get so excited about it.

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: It’s great work though.

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I mean, it is great work

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Carla Cummins: I would imagine.

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But it’s probably hard work too

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Oh yeah.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yeah.

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Carla Cummins: and I just listened to you say, I went last year to every PTO meeting that in my district I heard you say, I met with a hundred people.

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And so my question is, is you work all day, day long, and then what the hell do you go all night to PO meetings and forget about the other stuff that you still have to do?

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Right?

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So.

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And, and I, and I don’t know like age or anything else or how far in your career you are, but you also said you, you started teaching be in your daughter’s first grade class, right?

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And so you think about it from the perspective of me as an individual, Dr. Ma Ballmer, what do I give up to sit in this seat?

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah,

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Carla Cummins: I don’t know that people realize that, you know what all of that entails, but two, the thought that goes into it too.

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Jeff Kubiak: I, I think it’s amazing.

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I, I worked, um, at one point I was a principal in Fairfield Su Soon Unified, which is very similar size-wise and some of the, um, opportunities and challenges you face.

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And I, I thought it was.

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Amazing when, you know, the principal, uh, the superintendent and a couple different cabinet members, et cetera, would come to campus, not for a look, a me look at me, but really get engaged and, and have meaningful conversations with staff,

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with teachers, with students.

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Get out there, you know, and play four square, whatever.

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But just it, it wasn’t a, you know, a showcase.

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It was, I want to understand you and I see you, and that’s what I hear and read about your work and, and so.

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that guide your work at times?

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Does that guide your vision when you’re able to get out?

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Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah, for sure.

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So I’ll just give you two practical examples.

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So, uh, the first, so I’m in year four of being a superintendent, right?

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The first two years, um, I went.

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It took me, you know, we’ve got, again, 34 schools, right?

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So it took me a while to get through ’em all, but I went to every school and I sat in the staff lounge, uh, during lunch.

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So for a middle school or a high school, that’s, you know, an hour, right?

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In elementary school it’s like three hours ’cause they have multiple lunches.

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Uh, but I just sat there and listened to, what do you care about?

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What, what do, what’s important that we maintain?

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Uh, what can, again, what can we do better?

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What, what are your hopes?

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What are your dreams?

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Uh, and just listened.

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And those things became then my.

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Marching orders, if you will, for what work we were gonna get done.

00:14:33.886 –> 00:14:37.216
we, we’ve had other people continue to do that work in, in different areas.

00:14:37.216 –> 00:14:42.106
Right now, um, my chief business officer’s doing that because we just passed, passed this bond measure.

00:14:42.316 –> 00:14:46.216
So he’s going out meeting with people, getting even more, uh, input from them.

00:14:46.546 –> 00:14:48.766
But one of my favorite things that we do is.

00:14:49.437 –> 00:14:58.767
Uh, we bring in about 75 a hundred students about four times a year, and it’s the superintendent’s advisory panel and we spend the whole day with them.

00:14:58.797 –> 00:15:02.367
They are here all day long and we review policy with them.

00:15:02.367 –> 00:15:05.538
They give us input into our funding and what we’re gonna do with it.

00:15:05.594 –> 00:15:10.094
when we started launching our work in AI three years ago, we spent.

00:15:10.704 –> 00:15:13.194
I don’t, probably a total of two full days.

00:15:13.194 –> 00:15:17.904
If you add up all the hours just with students listening to them, what should this look like?

00:15:17.904 –> 00:15:19.104
How should we roll it out?

00:15:19.524 –> 00:15:22.584
What are the things you’re worried about, you want us to be worried about?

00:15:23.004 –> 00:15:27.504
Um, so those voices, I will tell you for sure.

00:15:27.774 –> 00:15:31.524
Staff, voices, community voices, student voices, they drive our work.

00:15:31.524 –> 00:15:33.774
Those are how we make our decisions.

00:15:34.194 –> 00:15:34.254
Yeah.

00:15:34.574 –> 00:15:38.935
Jeff Kubiak: That’s amazing the empowerment that fills students with.

00:15:39.545 –> 00:15:51.185
Is so important because many times people that don’t work with or around students don’t understand how much smarter they are than we give them credit for,

00:15:51.245 –> 00:15:51.605
right?

00:15:52.010 –> 00:15:52.370
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah.

00:15:52.760 –> 00:15:53.690
Yes, absolutely.

00:15:53.705 –> 00:15:56.105
Jeff Kubiak: high school student can understand policy.

00:15:56.105 –> 00:15:57.005
A high school student

00:15:57.305 –> 00:15:58.355
can drive change.

00:15:58.355 –> 00:16:01.205
And so the little ones can come up and you can put it into their words.

00:16:01.205 –> 00:16:03.065
But without that,

00:16:03.620 –> 00:16:04.040
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Right.

00:16:04.265 –> 00:16:04.955
Jeff Kubiak: what are we doing?

00:16:05.330 –> 00:16:05.570
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah.

00:16:05.570 –> 00:16:06.860
We have to have their voices.

00:16:06.860 –> 00:16:07.580
Absolutely.

00:16:08.063 –> 00:16:18.683
Jeff Kubiak: with all those, you know, com complex priorities, how, how do you, how do you kind of create clarity for yourself and for

00:16:18.683 –> 00:16:19.658
all the people you’re leading?

00:16:20.363 –> 00:16:20.783
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah.

00:16:21.323 –> 00:16:27.383
Um, so we did, when we first did those campaigns, we, um, we did, we did an action plan, right?

00:16:27.383 –> 00:16:30.233
We take those, we the, you start to hear.

00:16:30.366 –> 00:16:32.013
Common themes start to emerge.

00:16:32.013 –> 00:16:35.013
It’s almost like a doctoral research project, if you will.

00:16:35.013 –> 00:16:35.343
Right.

00:16:35.763 –> 00:16:37.803
Um, and so we then we just cluster those.

00:16:37.803 –> 00:16:39.183
So a lot.

00:16:39.213 –> 00:16:44.103
And then I, I share that feedback with the board and I’m really grateful for the board that I get to work with.

00:16:44.103 –> 00:16:45.513
So they give us.

00:16:45.978 –> 00:16:55.398
You know, in addition to all the things that we just have to get done in a school year, uh, they give us every year three board priorities that they’re like, these are the top ticket items, right?

00:16:55.788 –> 00:17:00.738
Uh, and thankfully they don’t completely change them every year, ’cause it takes more than a year to steer a ship.

00:17:00.897 –> 00:17:06.237
but so for example, um, this year our board priorities are, um, academic proficiency.

00:17:06.237 –> 00:17:06.777
So we.

00:17:07.147 –> 00:17:15.127
Started a couple years ago really focusing on early literacy and so we, we’ve made some great gains and we added in some deep focus on math this year.

00:17:15.127 –> 00:17:16.927
So it’s that academic proficiency.

00:17:17.437 –> 00:17:22.597
Our second one is being future focused, and that is a lot of our AI work and our career technical work.

00:17:23.622 –> 00:17:28.092
And then that third board priority is warm and welcoming environments, right?

00:17:28.092 –> 00:17:36.642
Making sure that everyone, parents, students, community, staff, everybody feels welcome and a part of the environments that they’re in.

00:17:36.642 –> 00:17:41.682
So those goals get developed because we take those points that we’ve heard and we’ve listened.

00:17:41.682 –> 00:17:47.772
We give the board that information, and then we use it to develop what are those big overarching goals for us for the year?

00:17:48.245 –> 00:17:53.435
Jeff Kubiak: What does, what does a warm and welcoming learning environment mean to Dr. Belmar

00:17:53.687 –> 00:17:55.252
it can be elementary, middle, or high.

00:17:55.417 –> 00:17:56.407
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: yeah, yeah.

00:17:56.407 –> 00:18:00.877
And I think it’s a lot of the same things, you know, just looks a little bit different, right?

00:18:01.131 –> 00:18:03.651
there’s the physical building, right?

00:18:03.651 –> 00:18:10.131
We want our physical spaces, which is why this bond measure was so, uh, such a huge win for us and for the community.

00:18:10.971 –> 00:18:14.472
Because we want our pla, we want our, learning spaces to be up to date.

00:18:14.472 –> 00:18:18.522
We want them to be areas where kids can innovate and create and question.

00:18:18.942 –> 00:18:20.262
Uh, we want them to be clean.

00:18:20.262 –> 00:18:21.912
We want them to be in good shape.

00:18:22.422 –> 00:18:26.022
Uh, but we want the climate and the culture right, to be that same way.

00:18:26.022 –> 00:18:31.967
We want it to be a place where kids feel like they belong, they feel like they make connections, uh, they feel like they’re safe.

00:18:32.387 –> 00:18:35.951
they’ve got the support that they need to thrive, that it’s individualized.

00:18:35.951 –> 00:18:37.511
It’s not a one size fits all.

00:18:37.991 –> 00:18:42.461
Uh, so really making sure that, that it’s a space they wanna be at, that they wanna come to school.

00:18:42.839 –> 00:18:51.179
Jeff Kubiak: that, that goes along with your enlightment, you know, I like how you have your leadership, your vision, your goals, and then the, the board alignment, community

00:18:51.179 –> 00:18:51.809
alignment.

00:18:51.809 –> 00:19:01.019
So what does alignment district wide, or even in your eyes or mind feel like when it’s working well,

00:19:01.963 –> 00:19:04.873
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: if it’s working well, we’re making progress towards our goals, right?

00:19:05.533 –> 00:19:06.883
Like we’re seeing that needle move.

00:19:07.243 –> 00:19:13.093
Um, but, but one of the things that I, and I love our organization so much, we have just, I say it all the time, I think we have the best staff.

00:19:13.633 –> 00:19:14.863
Hands down anywhere.

00:19:15.403 –> 00:19:18.223
Um, but those board priorities, they get lifted up all the time.

00:19:18.223 –> 00:19:20.023
So any parent meeting those get lifted up.

00:19:20.053 –> 00:19:22.573
Any professional development, they get lifted up.

00:19:22.873 –> 00:19:34.393
They, so what happens then is we set those board priorities and then the individual divisions start to work and they set their priorities, but they align them under those three big board priorities.

00:19:34.393 –> 00:19:39.283
So everyone in the organization, it’s not just something that the board says, and then we don’t talk about it again.

00:19:39.583 –> 00:19:42.853
Everyone in the organization is building towards those goals.

00:19:43.067 –> 00:19:49.637
Uh, and then we have four times a year we get together and we report out to the board what our progress is in those areas.

00:19:49.637 –> 00:19:56.267
And we’ve, we define, not only do we define the goals, we, we, you said what’s a warm and we, uh, welcoming environment look like.

00:19:57.137 –> 00:20:01.727
We define that when we set the goal and we say, okay, these are gonna be the things we’re gonna measure.

00:20:02.342 –> 00:20:04.622
To make sure that we have a warm and welcoming environment.

00:20:04.622 –> 00:20:14.132
These are the things we’re gonna measure towards progress with our career technical education, and we measure it all year long and we report back to the board what that progress is all year long,

00:20:19.256 –> 00:20:23.996
You know, when we work with schools at K 12, it’s not just about furniture design, it’s about impact.

00:20:24.236 –> 00:20:28.376
Our radically student-centered approach puts students at the center of every decision.

00:20:28.736 –> 00:20:35.006
From that first conversation to the final walkthrough, we’re focused on creating spaces that actually work for the kids.

00:20:35.426 –> 00:20:36.776
Teachers and the community.

00:20:37.076 –> 00:20:42.356
So if you’re looking to do more than just check a box on your next project, let’s talk Visit k12.com.

00:20:42.356 –> 00:20:51.086
That’s K-A-Y-T-W-E lve.com and see how we’re helping schools transform learning one student at a time.

00:20:51.416 –> 00:20:55.496
Because at K12 it’s not just about projects and furniture, it’s about purpose.

00:21:00.591 –> 00:21:00.831
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Sorry.

00:21:00.981 –> 00:21:03.231
Carla Cummins: I think I’m gonna steal one of Jeff’s questions here.

00:21:03.261 –> 00:21:04.281
’cause you talked about it, right?

00:21:04.281 –> 00:21:13.071
Like you talked about what you want people to experience in your schools, and I always call it a threshold experience and I talk about that, or I say that a lot when it’s associated with a classroom.

00:21:13.131 –> 00:21:17.001
You know, a way, the way that a kid feels when they’re walking through a classroom or even a teacher.

00:21:17.361 –> 00:21:28.611
But if you had someone who was visiting your school for the first time and they’re walking into any of your, any of your spaces, how would you hope that the district reflects the values?

00:21:28.994 –> 00:21:33.014
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: well, I mean, I would want them to be able to look at what our values are and be like, I saw that, right?

00:21:33.014 –> 00:21:36.404
I saw teamwork, I saw innovation, I saw people that were caring.

00:21:36.404 –> 00:21:40.244
I saw, uh, people being treated with respect and with kindness.

00:21:40.244 –> 00:21:40.604
Right.

00:21:41.264 –> 00:21:48.614
But I giggled a little bit because, you know, we talked at the beginning about being radically centered around students, right?

00:21:49.034 –> 00:21:50.954
And I don’t know, do y’all know who the Savannah Bananas are?

00:21:51.579 –> 00:21:57.669
Yeah, so they’re like the, if you, whoever’s listening, right, they’re like, the who, the Harlem Globe Trotters were to basketball.

00:21:57.669 –> 00:22:00.999
The Savannah Bananas are to baseball and their whole, um.

00:22:01.194 –> 00:22:03.684
Methodology, if you will, is fans first.

00:22:03.684 –> 00:22:05.964
Like, if it’s not fans first, we don’t do it.

00:22:06.084 –> 00:22:09.384
So they think about every price point of concessions.

00:22:09.384 –> 00:22:14.004
What’s the experience when you get into the parking lot, not even in the ballpark, in the parking lot.

00:22:14.435 –> 00:22:17.740
and so we stole some, fans first.

00:22:18.745 –> 00:22:20.155
Philosophy, if you will.

00:22:20.185 –> 00:22:23.155
And we have a student’s first theme in Desert Sands.

00:22:23.515 –> 00:22:27.985
Uh, and we’re, you know, really looking at, um, using those pillars.

00:22:27.985 –> 00:22:32.540
But so what do I want people to feel I talked about to all of the management team back in August.

00:22:33.321 –> 00:22:39.891
One of the things that Jesse, the owner says is, you wouldn’t believe he wants people to say that when they leave a baseball game.

00:22:39.921 –> 00:22:43.191
You wouldn’t believe how clean the bathrooms were.

00:22:43.191 –> 00:22:46.491
You wouldn’t believe the entertainment and what I saw.

00:22:46.641 –> 00:22:48.201
And so what we talked about is.

00:22:48.461 –> 00:22:51.281
That’s what we want from kids and from parents, right?

00:22:51.431 –> 00:22:53.351
I want parents to leave our schools going.

00:22:53.466 –> 00:22:59.501
I, you wouldn’t believe how that staff bent over backwards to help us and to make sure that we had what we needed.

00:22:59.711 –> 00:23:04.331
Or a kid going home at dinner and going, you wouldn’t believe what I learned about math today and how I learned it.

00:23:04.331 –> 00:23:04.661
Right?

00:23:04.841 –> 00:23:10.631
That’s that experience that we want, which I think really does, you know, it should reflect those values of students first.

00:23:10.631 –> 00:23:12.611
We, we, everything we do is about students.

00:23:12.611 –> 00:23:13.661
First we try.

00:23:14.706 –> 00:23:16.656
Carla Cummins: You know, it’s crazy you say that.

00:23:16.656 –> 00:23:21.186
And Jeff, you may not know this, but K 12, we do.

00:23:21.186 –> 00:23:21.846
Um.

00:23:22.236 –> 00:23:24.096
Initiatives every corner quarter.

00:23:24.096 –> 00:23:30.726
And we read the fan’s first book and one it, and we have a podcast recording with Jesse Cole.

00:23:30.726 –> 00:23:33.186
So we had our entire team go to Arizona.

00:23:33.246 –> 00:23:36.906
Um, Kevin Stoller and I live, live in, in Arizona, and they came.

00:23:37.206 –> 00:23:49.806
So we all went to a game, had the whole experience, but ultimately became stewards of the exact same thing because you look at it from the standpoint of what do you want, and we can look at it from.

00:23:50.081 –> 00:23:51.821
Like, you’re our customer, right?

00:23:51.821 –> 00:23:52.421
You’re a customer.

00:23:53.231 –> 00:24:14.861
But the reality is, is that the students are the customers and so they have a fans first experience as they, as you’re going through your process of what whatever
you’re doing within in the school, you’re always going to have the experience of, you cannot, you would not believe what happened when I went to whatever school it was.

00:24:14.861 –> 00:24:15.221
Right?

00:24:15.581 –> 00:24:17.021
So it’s funny that you say that

00:24:17.046 –> 00:24:17.796
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: I love that.

00:24:18.366 –> 00:24:18.576
Yeah.

00:24:18.576 –> 00:24:21.996
It’s so neat too because, so one of their pillars, right, is eliminate friction, right?

00:24:21.996 –> 00:24:24.396
What are those friction points for people that are coming to a game?

00:24:24.396 –> 00:24:25.416
How do you just get rid of it?

00:24:25.926 –> 00:24:27.936
And so we, we tweak their pillars a little bit.

00:24:27.936 –> 00:24:30.306
And so one of ours was eliminate barriers.

00:24:30.366 –> 00:24:31.206
’cause we tend to.

00:24:31.926 –> 00:24:32.946
Trying to do good work.

00:24:32.946 –> 00:24:35.256
We unintentionally put up these barriers, right?

00:24:35.256 –> 00:24:46.116
And so what’s been great this year, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard overheard staff members talking to each other and a staff member saying, that’s not removing a barrier.

00:24:46.206 –> 00:24:47.286
We’re creating a barrier.

00:24:47.286 –> 00:24:48.096
We can’t do that.

00:24:48.456 –> 00:24:49.536
That’s not a good decision.

00:24:50.406 –> 00:24:51.427
I’m like, yes, it’s

00:24:51.622 –> 00:24:52.702
Carla Cummins: you’re like, preach.

00:24:52.807 –> 00:24:54.217
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yes, exactly.

00:24:54.247 –> 00:24:55.147
Exactly.

00:24:55.682 –> 00:24:55.982
Jeff Kubiak: Yeah.

00:24:56.692 –> 00:25:01.612
Carla Cummins: Well, we do need to write Jesse Cole, uh, email because his barrier is, is that his dang tickets always sell

00:25:01.852 –> 00:25:02.122
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Okay.

00:25:02.122 –> 00:25:03.832
I can’t take us to that game.

00:25:03.832 –> 00:25:07.012
Just, I’ve been on the wait list for I don’t know how long, so Yes.

00:25:07.707 –> 00:25:09.087
Jeff Kubiak: That’s a good problem to have though,

00:25:09.192 –> 00:25:10.272
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: It is a good problem.

00:25:10.272 –> 00:25:10.752
It is.

00:25:10.782 –> 00:25:11.952
They’re doing some good work.

00:25:11.952 –> 00:25:12.312
Yeah,

00:25:12.417 –> 00:25:13.542
Jeff Kubiak: So interesting.

00:25:13.587 –> 00:25:16.647
You just talked about, you know, walking in maybe to a staff room or something

00:25:16.707 –> 00:25:18.567
when you had those student.

00:25:19.557 –> 00:25:21.327
Forums, forms, whatever you wanna call ’em.

00:25:21.777 –> 00:25:26.307
What did they the student say that may have shifted your thinking?

00:25:27.267 –> 00:25:30.597
You were here after a couple years of those sessions.

00:25:31.124 –> 00:25:37.694
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Um, you know, I think one of the things that stands out the most to me is when we were talking to them, I’ll, you know, just give practical example.

00:25:37.694 –> 00:25:51.734
We were talking with them about AI and we did this, we call it a gallery walk where we put the kids at stations around the room and we
pose some questions to them and we chart their answers, and then they all walk around looking at each other’s questions and answers.

00:25:52.034 –> 00:25:53.714
So we’re doing that kind of experience.

00:25:54.279 –> 00:25:56.469
One of the stations, we said, what do you want teachers to know?

00:25:56.529 –> 00:26:06.369
Now, this is like several years ago, it’s still probably the most talked about part of AI and education, but the idea of cheating, right, is really on the forefront of everyone’s minds.

00:26:06.939 –> 00:26:08.379
We said, what do you want your teachers to know?

00:26:08.919 –> 00:26:11.559
And this student man, if I could just give him a mic.

00:26:12.009 –> 00:26:18.519
And so he said, you know, I just would want my teacher to know if we had authentic work that we had to do in class.

00:26:19.379 –> 00:26:21.059
And they had samples of that.

00:26:21.059 –> 00:26:23.129
And then we had assignments that we had to do at home.

00:26:23.399 –> 00:26:25.649
They can compare the two and tell if we’re cheating.

00:26:26.129 –> 00:26:28.589
I mean, if we’re doing real authentic work, they’re gonna know.

00:26:28.859 –> 00:26:31.229
They don’t have to worry about whether or not we are, they would know.

00:26:31.439 –> 00:26:33.149
And I was like, mic drop for this kid.

00:26:33.239 –> 00:26:33.629
Yes.

00:26:33.905 –> 00:26:39.721
but those words from the kids, they, we really used those as a, are we on the right track or not?

00:26:39.942 –> 00:26:41.442
and they just really, you know, right.

00:26:41.442 –> 00:26:45.282
They, they affirmed us and then they, they drove us in some other directions too.

00:26:45.282 –> 00:26:45.612
Right?

00:26:45.901 –> 00:26:57.691
they talked about, one of the things we hadn’t even talk thought about, they said, you know, our teachers are telling us we can’t use ai, but they use it and we know, and they don’t even tell us that they’re using it and we know they are.

00:26:58.621 –> 00:26:59.881
And we were like, oh, okay.

00:26:59.881 –> 00:27:01.171
We need to be more transparent.

00:27:02.161 –> 00:27:06.001
And we need to have a conversation about, well, why can the adults use it, but the kids can’t.

00:27:06.031 –> 00:27:07.591
That’s another barrier, right?

00:27:07.591 –> 00:27:08.191
Let’s figure out

00:27:08.341 –> 00:27:08.561
Carla Cummins: Huh?

00:27:09.286 –> 00:27:10.276
Well, is it trust?

00:27:10.276 –> 00:27:10.696
Right?

00:27:10.696 –> 00:27:18.286
Like, I don’t trust you to use this tool, but I’m going to use this tool in what I do for you.

00:27:18.496 –> 00:27:20.986
So I always think too, it’s trust, right?

00:27:21.031 –> 00:27:21.571
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: totally.

00:27:22.306 –> 00:27:23.461
Carla Cummins: That’s underlying of a lot of things.

00:27:23.851 –> 00:27:24.421
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah.

00:27:24.487 –> 00:27:28.537
Jeff Kubiak: if we were to have walked in your classroom when you first couple years,

00:27:29.017 –> 00:27:35.977
and then if Dr. Kelly Ma Bomer was a teacher today and we walked into her classroom, what would have shifted

00:27:36.333 –> 00:27:38.283
and perhaps what would you have kept

00:27:39.243 –> 00:27:39.543
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah.

00:27:39.723 –> 00:27:40.503
Jeff Kubiak: those days?

00:27:40.623 –> 00:27:45.393
Because I know you’ve only been, you know, teaching 10, 10 years ’cause you’re, you know, in your early thirties.

00:27:45.393 –> 00:27:45.693
So.

00:27:46.000 –> 00:27:47.230
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: You know, it’s so interesting.

00:27:47.230 –> 00:27:49.180
So when I was a teacher back in the day, right.

00:27:49.185 –> 00:27:49.232
Um.

00:27:49.232 –> 00:27:53.873
I told my principal one time, I’m like, you bring the superintendent in my classroom.

00:27:54.143 –> 00:27:59.003
And I know it’s not on purpose, but every time you bring her in, it’s like chaos in here.

00:27:59.333 –> 00:28:06.593
Because I really, really leaned into hands-on learning, project-based learning, lots of dialogue, lots of discussion.

00:28:06.953 –> 00:28:11.843
So there was very little sitting in rows, you know me at the front of the room kind of stuff.

00:28:11.843 –> 00:28:15.323
And so I would hang onto that because as much as.

00:28:15.878 –> 00:28:16.808
And my principal was great.

00:28:16.808 –> 00:28:18.338
He was like, it’s controlled chaos.

00:28:18.338 –> 00:28:22.808
Like I, we, if you stand where the kids are and listen to them, it’s, you know, they’re not goofing off.

00:28:22.808 –> 00:28:26.738
They’re on task, they’re on topic, they’re asking great questions.

00:28:26.888 –> 00:28:32.348
So even though it may look a little, you know, wild, um, they’re doing what we want them to do, right.

00:28:32.348 –> 00:28:33.698
So I would definitely hold onto that.

00:28:33.908 –> 00:28:34.543
I would say now.

00:28:35.933 –> 00:28:38.063
I know a lot more about getting better directions.

00:28:38.063 –> 00:28:39.563
I gave this assignment one time.

00:28:39.983 –> 00:28:42.383
I called my principal in to look at it because it was just really funny.

00:28:42.383 –> 00:28:43.793
The kids made these PowerPoints.

00:28:44.243 –> 00:28:46.163
It was supposed to be about life cycles, and it was.

00:28:46.343 –> 00:28:50.243
I mean, they just didn’t know enough to do the assignment I had given them to do.

00:28:50.243 –> 00:28:53.573
I had had mis gauged that, but one of them was so funny.

00:28:53.573 –> 00:28:56.543
I still have it on a flash drive, the dating life of monkeys.

00:28:56.633 –> 00:28:58.313
That was their lifecycle report.

00:28:58.583 –> 00:29:03.323
So anyway, yeah, I, I’d used a lot more strategies than I know how to use today than I did back then.

00:29:03.748 –> 00:29:06.418
Jeff Kubiak: In, in your position as a superintendent,

00:29:06.758 –> 00:29:10.988
you’re often faced with pushback and then embrace criticism, right?

00:29:10.988 –> 00:29:11.528
And so

00:29:12.023 –> 00:29:14.888
how, how do you stay steady in the face of criticism?

00:29:14.888 –> 00:29:24.158
And then how do you not overly get too excited in the face of, um, you know, honoring, cheering, embracing.

00:29:25.249 –> 00:29:27.229
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Well, so a few things, right?

00:29:27.229 –> 00:29:29.239
I mean, one is, I have this picture in my office.

00:29:29.239 –> 00:29:34.009
It’s a roller coaster, and it’s there on purpose because that’s the job, right?

00:29:34.069 –> 00:29:42.349
In in, in any given day, you can have these really high experiences and these really low experiences, and so I just have that there as a reminder for myself.

00:29:42.859 –> 00:29:48.019
I also really try to remember that these are at the end of the day, right?

00:29:48.049 –> 00:30:01.219
These are people’s children, and so when they call and there are criticisms, they really are just, no matter how it comes out, no matter how it sounds, they’re advocating for their kids, which I advocate for their kids.

00:30:01.219 –> 00:30:02.449
So I want them to add.

00:30:02.449 –> 00:30:09.229
So I really try to not, you know, I try to not, you know, get caught up in the tone or the approach or the, and just listen to.

00:30:09.784 –> 00:30:13.804
What it is that they want and what it is that they need and try and get them what they need.

00:30:14.314 –> 00:30:16.654
Um, but I will tell you, this is really helpful.

00:30:16.654 –> 00:30:23.224
I, I do a lot of work around emotional intelligence and I think that optimism is low in our world today, right?

00:30:23.224 –> 00:30:24.304
It’s, it’s down a little bit.

00:30:25.234 –> 00:30:31.234
And so there are ways I know I need optimism in my job to do exactly what you just talked about, right?

00:30:31.234 –> 00:30:35.074
Like not get too caught up on the highs and not do too down on the lows.

00:30:35.824 –> 00:30:37.864
So there’s three things I try to remind myself of.

00:30:37.864 –> 00:30:42.154
One is this is just a moment in time, so if something’s bad, it’s not gonna be bad forever.

00:30:43.264 –> 00:30:44.044
We will get through it.

00:30:44.044 –> 00:30:45.154
It’s a moment in time.

00:30:45.664 –> 00:30:48.964
Uh, the other thing I try to remind myself is that it’s a thing that’s bad.

00:30:48.964 –> 00:30:50.044
Not all things are bad.

00:30:50.104 –> 00:30:52.564
This is a thing that’s bad, right?

00:30:52.594 –> 00:30:53.944
That gives me good perspective.

00:30:53.944 –> 00:30:55.804
And the other is just that I have agency there.

00:30:55.804 –> 00:30:58.834
I can do something about whatever it is that I think is bad.

00:30:59.224 –> 00:31:02.704
Um, I’m not a victim that has no, you know, power or ability.

00:31:02.704 –> 00:31:06.214
I may not be able to change everything I want, but I can change some things.

00:31:06.574 –> 00:31:11.194
And so that thought process really helps me, uh, and keeps me kind of grounded in the right things.

00:31:11.927 –> 00:31:12.257
Carla Cummins: Yeah.

00:31:12.257 –> 00:31:15.317
I also think too, in your, in your role, you oftentimes see like, I’m.

00:31:16.232 –> 00:31:18.662
Your decisions are made, right?

00:31:18.662 –> 00:31:25.022
Based on what you believe the need is and in the best interest of your community.

00:31:25.502 –> 00:31:32.402
And so to know that you’re doing it the right way, sometimes people just feel it’s about them.

00:31:32.402 –> 00:31:33.212
It’s not about

00:31:33.592 –> 00:31:34.067
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Right, right.

00:31:34.082 –> 00:31:34.577
Carla Cummins: It’s about,

00:31:34.925 –> 00:31:39.305
and as you said that I’m just like, it’s, it’s most of the time about someone’s uncomfortable with something.

00:31:40.160 –> 00:31:43.340
Someone you know, like they didn’t necessarily get what they wanted.

00:31:43.340 –> 00:31:50.180
Maybe it might be a little bit more difficult, they might have additional whatever it might be, but oftentimes it’s about them and it’s not necessarily about you.

00:31:50.180 –> 00:31:52.700
And so it’s just kind of like, let me hear you

00:31:53.045 –> 00:31:54.365
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah, exactly.

00:31:54.575 –> 00:31:55.205
Exactly right.

00:31:55.430 –> 00:31:55.700
Carla Cummins: this out.

00:31:55.835 –> 00:31:56.125
Yeah.

00:31:56.570 –> 00:31:56.860
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yeah.

00:31:57.110 –> 00:31:57.860
Jeff Kubiak: shall pass.

00:31:57.860 –> 00:31:58.190
That’s my

00:31:58.190 –> 00:31:59.660
mom’s all time favorite

00:31:59.855 –> 00:32:00.545
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: she’s right.

00:32:01.040 –> 00:32:01.370
Jeff Kubiak: yeah,

00:32:02.270 –> 00:32:03.260
Carla Cummins: I say that to my kids.

00:32:03.260 –> 00:32:04.910
They get so frustrated with me, Jeff.

00:32:05.417 –> 00:32:06.107
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: We don’t wanna hear that.

00:32:06.842 –> 00:32:07.082
Carla Cummins: No.

00:32:07.082 –> 00:32:08.822
They’re like, what does that even mean?

00:32:09.092 –> 00:32:11.252
Like, what does that mean?

00:32:11.582 –> 00:32:12.932
Because it’s not.

00:32:14.267 –> 00:32:16.217
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: It’s right now, it’s happening to me.

00:32:16.367 –> 00:32:17.177
It’s ruining my life.

00:32:18.422 –> 00:32:19.892
Jeff Kubiak: So, Dr. Volmer,

00:32:20.072 –> 00:32:20.292
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yes.

00:32:20.667 –> 00:32:24.812
Jeff Kubiak: let, let’s get back to our, uh, the RSC, the, the, the, the

00:32:24.827 –> 00:32:25.307
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Yes.

00:32:25.457 –> 00:32:25.727
Love

00:32:25.832 –> 00:32:29.044
Jeff Kubiak: big, radically student centered What does it mean?

00:32:29.044 –> 00:32:30.874
How does it guide your work, or what are your thoughts

00:32:30.874 –> 00:32:31.204
around it?

00:32:31.678 –> 00:32:35.983
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: well, I mean, we talked a lot about, right, like, it, it means kids have to have a voice.

00:32:35.983 –> 00:32:37.423
They’ve gotta be front and center.

00:32:37.423 –> 00:32:41.263
They can’t be the recipients of all the decisions that we’re making.

00:32:41.683 –> 00:32:46.573
Um, but I think the pillars we chose with our, uh, students’ first theme, I think really defines it.

00:32:46.573 –> 00:32:49.393
So, uh, for us it’s removing barriers, right?

00:32:49.393 –> 00:32:54.043
We wanna remove any barriers that are in the way, igniting engagement, getting students.

00:32:54.898 –> 00:32:56.518
So they’re excited and they’re engaged.

00:32:56.518 –> 00:33:14.128
We have a student board member, um, on Tuesday night at our board meeting, he was ending his term and he’s been so engaged, and so I just took a few minutes to
say thank you for being so engaged, but to everyone listening and watching be this engaged like this, we want you to, I mean, he was questioning us in a great way.

00:33:14.128 –> 00:33:20.008
Respectfully wanted data from us, like he was helping drive decisions that were good for kids.

00:33:20.008 –> 00:33:21.328
So igniting that engagement.

00:33:22.348 –> 00:33:25.108
Creating spaces where kids can innovate always.

00:33:25.108 –> 00:33:26.818
We always want that coming from them.

00:33:27.388 –> 00:33:30.388
Cultivating those connections is really, really key.

00:33:30.388 –> 00:33:37.018
And then empowering them to act like that for us, those pillars are really what it is to be radically student centered.

00:33:38.278 –> 00:33:38.733
Carla Cummins: I love it.

00:33:39.088 –> 00:33:39.928
Jeff Kubiak: that’s phenomenal.

00:33:40.378 –> 00:33:42.418
So when Dr. Kelly Mae Volmer.

00:33:43.348 –> 00:33:44.938
Tenure is complete

00:33:45.778 –> 00:33:46.918
and you reflect.

00:33:47.428 –> 00:33:54.663
What is the hope that the amazing community of Desert Sands will say about you and how you

00:33:55.203 –> 00:33:55.423
led?

00:33:56.353 –> 00:33:57.733
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Oh my goodness.

00:33:59.113 –> 00:34:01.003
That’s, that’s a deep question, right?

00:34:01.273 –> 00:34:03.913
Um, if I can change literacy rates, that would be a good one.

00:34:03.913 –> 00:34:05.233
I would love that for sure.

00:34:05.323 –> 00:34:07.213
Which we are, we are, but Right.

00:34:07.213 –> 00:34:07.903
Kids gotta read.

00:34:08.203 –> 00:34:09.823
That’s like the foundation of everything we do.

00:34:09.919 –> 00:34:14.629
you know what if, if people have felt cared for, they have felt respected.

00:34:14.689 –> 00:34:18.979
If they have felt inspired, uh, that’s a great legacy for me.

00:34:18.979 –> 00:34:23.899
I, I want people to feel like they just were treated with great dignity for the human beings.

00:34:23.899 –> 00:34:35.649
That they were, no matter what our interaction was, and no matter what the circumstances were, that they felt like they were in a place where somebody cared, uh, and someone appreciated them and helped them to be the best version of themselves.

00:34:36.039 –> 00:34:37.239
That that would be awesome.

00:34:37.851 –> 00:34:38.541
Jeff Kubiak: Fantastic.

00:34:38.773 –> 00:34:42.853
Carla Cummins: So if you were to say, not like what my success looks like, right.

00:34:43.243 –> 00:34:57.837
But if you were to think and have an opportunity to say to people who are, we, our audience is pretty much people who design, construct, build, you know, planned schools, um, and equipped ’cause we, we equipped.

00:34:57.957 –> 00:35:01.287
But if you had a message to say.

00:35:01.782 –> 00:35:03.072
To people, people right.

00:35:03.087 –> 00:35:04.902
To, to the, our community.

00:35:05.292 –> 00:35:11.982
Um, what would it be like if you had one thing that you could just be like, get your head outta your tushy.

00:35:12.042 –> 00:35:14.052
You know, we need to start doing this right now.

00:35:14.772 –> 00:35:25.062
Like, there has to be something because I mean, you’ve gone enough down the track to know that, that, that there are things right, and that, and, and change is hard.

00:35:25.122 –> 00:35:30.162
But what would one, if you wanted to leave one important nugget, what would it be?

00:35:31.467 –> 00:35:31.857
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Okay.

00:35:31.917 –> 00:35:33.747
I would say, this is what I would say.

00:35:33.807 –> 00:35:35.667
I would say push this.

00:35:35.727 –> 00:35:38.217
The schools that you’re working with, right.

00:35:38.967 –> 00:35:48.687
To bring you the right connectors, because the mistake that we made early on in, in some of our modernizations is we did that thing where we had just a few people around the table.

00:35:48.957 –> 00:35:52.167
So the tech people would talk about what the tech specs needed to be, right?

00:35:52.167 –> 00:35:54.057
We talk about what furniture needs to be.

00:35:54.057 –> 00:36:00.897
We’d talk about, you know, room configuration and what kinds of rooms and, and we talked about all that stuff, but who wasn’t in the room?

00:36:00.897 –> 00:36:02.727
Was the people using the rooms?

00:36:03.122 –> 00:36:19.922
and so I would say push the people you’re working with to get the people around the table that are actually gonna be in the rooms, the students,
the teachers, the, you need those voices when you’re making decisions because they’re, they’re the customer, to your point earlier, right?

00:36:20.582 –> 00:36:21.752
They’re the ones using it.

00:36:21.752 –> 00:36:28.742
And so we need the people that have all the district level information that’s necessary, but that voice can’t be absent.

00:36:29.942 –> 00:36:39.542
Carla Cummins: No, and it, and you’re right, it often is, you know, when you’re, when you’re sitting there, and I think so often the squeaky wheels, you know, you have facilities who are like, don’t do that.

00:36:39.542 –> 00:36:43.022
And then you know, safety and security don’t do that, and you’re just like.

00:36:44.072 –> 00:36:45.482
Guys, you’re just killing my vibe

00:36:45.527 –> 00:36:46.847
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Right, exactly.

00:36:47.342 –> 00:36:47.432
Carla Cummins: Yeah.

00:36:48.258 –> 00:36:49.668
Jeff Kubiak: following her work is next.

00:36:49.668 –> 00:37:05.208
So, um, we, we want to thank you not only for spending time with us and our listeners today, but for the amazing deep work that you do and, and how you genuinely care about your, uh, your people, like your tribe, right?

00:37:05.208 –> 00:37:07.317
And, and it goes without saying.

00:37:07.317 –> 00:37:09.867
The work you’re doing is, uh, changing lives.

00:37:09.867 –> 00:37:10.917
So it’s pretty cool.

00:37:11.487 –> 00:37:13.947
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Well, thank you so much and thank you for what you do.

00:37:13.947 –> 00:37:17.817
I mean, we couldn’t do the work that we do without people like you doing the work that you do.

00:37:17.817 –> 00:37:19.887
So thank you so much and thanks for having me today.

00:37:19.887 –> 00:37:20.997
This was really fun.

00:37:21.732 –> 00:37:23.772
Anytime I get to talk about my people, I’m happy.

00:37:23.772 –> 00:37:24.612
They’re fantastic.

00:37:25.363 –> 00:37:31.903
Jeff Kubiak: everyone, take a listen and share, share your learning and love and your your kids’ first, uh, vision.

00:37:32.683 –> 00:37:33.403
Thank you so much.

00:37:34.528 –> 00:37:34.708
Dr. Kelly May-Vollmar: Thank you.